Ludwick?

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cardinals had Adam Kennedy(and other assorted garbage) playing 2B last year. Kelly Johnson would be a massive upgrade.

[mul21]

By being more balanced. If they get the production they think they can out of Rasmus and add in Johnson's numbers, you probably end up with a little more production overall plus you've added 2 guys in front of Pujols who are expected to get on base at a pretty good clip.

 

Sorry, I disagree that the minimal gain you get with Kelly Johnson playing over anything they already had playing 2B makes them a better offense simply because they added a LH hitter.

 

Ludwicks production can't be overlooked when you consider how many times teams pitched around Albert.

 

But, as a Cub fan, I'm all for them making that deal.

 

I think you misinterpreted my use of balance. I meant that insted of getting 30 HR out of one spot and 5 out of another, they may get 20 out of one and 15 out of the other, creating better balance throughout the lineup. Plus you'll have 2 spots with solid OBP instead of one good one and the other that is just meh.

[javy knows my name]

Fine, he has [sic] two yrs, and has been heard from again. And when I mean "haven't [sic] been heard from again" I mean production wise [sic]. Otherwise, he has bounce [sic] around, but as a productive player, [sic] he has been from [sic] since 2004. Is that better, [sic] is that more defined? [sic]

NOOO. Jesus, NO. It's NOT. At all!

[17 Seconds]

 

1: He reeks of Mark Bellhorn. One unexpectedly good yr, never to hear from again.

2: Cards won't trade him to the Cubs unless they get the Cubs to overpay for him.

3: I prefer Hermida, as do many on this board.

 

 

Ask the 2004 Red Sox if they've heard of Mark Bellhorn.

 

BoSox could name you everybody from that team from Martinez to Papelbon to Mueller to Youk. So that proves nothing.

 

The point is that Bellhorn had more than one good year.

 

Yeah.. he had 2. Dude's a stud

 

Way to parse that out from absolutely nothing resembling that sentiment.

 

Obviously I was being sarcastic but my point was pretty clear. The guy said he thought Ludwick would be a one-year wonder like Bellhorn. You implied that Bellhorn was far from being a one-year wonder, when really he wasn't. The comparison he made was fine. He really only had one great season.

[The Other 15]

I think you misinterpreted my use of balance. I meant that insted of getting 30 HR out of one spot and 5 out of another, they may get 20 out of one and 15 out of the other, creating better balance throughout the lineup. Plus you'll have 2 spots with solid OBP instead of one good one and the other that is just meh.

 

Alright, I see what you meant. I still disagree only because Ludwick looks like he can be a prodigious producer over the next few years and Kelly Johson is a nice player but not great. That's not good enough for me to replace a guy that has shown he can produce behind Albert which is a must in that offense. They need a 2B bad, but they need a SS more.

 

They had a pretty good offense despite getting very little from SS and 2B. There's got to be a better way to address those spots than giving away a player that emerged as a legitimate producer.

 

The Cardinals had Adam Kennedy(and other assorted garbage) playing 2B last year. Kelly Johnson would be a massive upgrade.

That's not at issue. Is the "upgrade" over Kennedy (and the rest) worth trading a guy that had a massive season and is 30 years old? That's a tricky one. I would guess they wouldn't want to start Skip Schumaker in a corner spot again. Trading Ludwick, would do just that. That's not so tricky.

[mul21]

I think you misinterpreted my use of balance. I meant that insted of getting 30 HR out of one spot and 5 out of another, they may get 20 out of one and 15 out of the other, creating better balance throughout the lineup. Plus you'll have 2 spots with solid OBP instead of one good one and the other that is just meh.

 

Alright, I see what you meant. I still disagree only because Ludwick looks like he can be a prodigious producer over the next few years and Kelly Johson is a nice player but not great. That's not good enough for me to replace a guy that has shown he can produce behind Albert which is a must in that offense. They need a 2B bad, but they need a SS more.

 

They had a pretty good offense despite getting very little from SS and 2B. There's got to be a better way to address those spots than giving away a player that emerged as a legitimate producer.

 

The Cardinals had Adam Kennedy(and other assorted garbage) playing 2B last year. Kelly Johnson would be a massive upgrade.

That's not at issue. Is the "upgrade" over Kennedy (and the rest) worth trading a guy that had a massive season and is 30 years old? That's a tricky one. I would guess they wouldn't want to start Skip Schumaker in a corner spot again. Trading Ludwick, would do just that. That's not so tricky.

 

You also have to factor in the Cards might be leery of his ability to:

1. produce that type of season again and

2. stay healthy with his injury history.

 

Based on track record, I would tend to side with them being cautious with him rather than banking on another .300-30-100 season from him.

[RedFlash]

Apparently, according to Rosenthal the Cards have offered Ludwick, Schumaker and Mitchell Boggs to the Rockies for Matt Holliday. Seriously man, if the Rockies take this offer, I was be so pissed that I will break things. I mean my god, you have essentially two backup players (and yes until proven otherwise, Ludwick--IMO---is a 4th OF with a career yr) and a swing pitcher for one of the better hitters in baseball.

 

Gosh, I hope this isn't true.

[CoolHandLuke]

I appreciate what Mark Bellhorn did for us in 2003 because I like having Aramis Ramirez on the team.

[fromthestretch]

 

1: He reeks of Mark Bellhorn. One unexpectedly good yr, never to hear from again.

2: Cards won't trade him to the Cubs unless they get the Cubs to overpay for him.

3: I prefer Hermida, as do many on this board.

 

 

Ask the 2004 Red Sox if they've heard of Mark Bellhorn.

 

BoSox could name you everybody from that team from Martinez to Papelbon to Mueller to Youk. So that proves nothing.

 

The point is that Bellhorn had more than one good year.

 

Yeah.. he had 2. Dude's a stud

 

Way to parse that out from absolutely nothing resembling that sentiment.

 

Obviously I was being sarcastic but my point was pretty clear. The guy said he thought Ludwick would be a one-year wonder like Bellhorn. You implied that Bellhorn was far from being a one-year wonder, when really he wasn't. The comparison he made was fine. He really only had one great season.

 

I implied nothing of the sort. I even specifically mentioned the one other good year he had. It was a simple correction to something RedFlash said. I'm not saying he had a great, or even good, career. You're reading way too much into it.

[mul21]

Apparently, according to Rosenthal the Cards have offered Ludwick, Schumaker and Mitchell Boggs to the Rockies for Matt Holliday. Seriously man, if the Rockies take this offer, I was be so pissed that I will break things. I mean my god, you have essentially two backup players (and yes until proven otherwise, Ludwick--IMO---is a 4th OF with a career yr) and a swing pitcher for one of the better hitters in baseball.

 

Gosh, I hope this isn't true.

 

The upside of this is the fact that his salary will likely prevent them from spending elsewhere and Holliday's numbers away from Coors (power anyway) are less than what you would expect for a guy slated to make $14 million next year (I think).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

We've talked about the Coors hangover effect before, but I'm still curious to see what Holliday does on a different team. I was shocked at how bad his minor league numbers were when I looked them up the other day, something like a career .775 OPS at age appropriate levels.

[Post Count Padder]

If I'm the Rockies, I at least demand Rasmus. I don't know why they think two journeymen with career years is a good return for a top hitter.

[mul21]

If I'm the Rockies, I at least demand Rasmus. I don't know why they think two journeymen with career years is a good return for a top hitter.

 

My guess would be $$$$$$$$$.

 

Although I'm sure they could do better than the Cardinals offer even if that is the case.

[Post Count Padder]

If I'm the Rockies, I at least demand Rasmus. I don't know why they think two journeymen with career years is a good return for a top hitter.

 

My guess would be $$$$$$$$$.

 

Although I'm sure they could do better than the Cardinals offer even if that is the case.

Yeah, they could still get a better package if they shopped around. No way should this be the best they can get.

[The Other 15]

You also have to factor in the Cards might be leery of his ability to:

1. produce that type of season again and

2. stay healthy with his injury history.

 

Based on track record, I would tend to side with them being cautious with him rather than banking on another .300-30-100 season from him.

 

Injuries could be a legit concern.

 

But the rumors to Colorado for Holliday make more sense than Kelly Johnson.

 

By the way, .385/.478/1.350 line for Holliday at new Bush.

[mul21]

You also have to factor in the Cards might be leery of his ability to:

1. produce that type of season again and

2. stay healthy with his injury history.

 

Based on track record, I would tend to side with them being cautious with him rather than banking on another .300-30-100 season from him.

 

Injuries could be a legit concern.

 

But the rumors to Colorado for Holliday make more sense than Kelly Johnson.

 

By the way, .385/.478/1.350 line for Holliday at new Bush.

 

1. Use the quote button. It's at the bottom right of the post you're quoting.

 

2. That line is against crappy/injured Cardinal pitching. They haven't had a decent regular season since they moved into that park. And like I said, his power numbers outside of Coors are not nearly what I'm looking for if I'm about to pay a guy $14M.

[RedVerbs]

The Cardinals pitching isn't crappy (Well, name wise it is, but not performance wise), the bullpen is, though.