4/15 - Bulls (41-40) vs. Toronto (32-49) - 7 pm, CSN

[Tyrant]

 

The Bulls did trade for the 2 pick 5 years ago when they already had the 4 pick. And that was just Brand ("just" meaning singular player, not intended to devalue the player) for the 2 pick, no strings attached. So I don't think it's absurd as some are making it out to be, especially since Miami is entertaining trade offers for the pick anyway, and before the Bulls knew they were getting the first pick, they were already in talks with Miami about trading Hinrich for their pick.

 

Right. They traded Elton Brand for the No. 2 pick, right after he had averaged 20 points and 10 boards as a 21-year-old. The Bulls don't have a player like that. I wish Jerry Krause would have been that smart.

 

Also, that was in a draft where there wasn't a player like Beasley or Rose available. The Clippers were willing to do that trade because Brand was better than what they thought Chandler or Curry would become.

 

I'm sure it's possible for the Bulls to get the second pick, but I think any trade they made -- by giving up multiple valuable pieces -- would be a bad one.

[Guest]

 

The Bulls did trade for the 2 pick 5 years ago when they already had the 4 pick. And that was just Brand ("just" meaning singular player, not intended to devalue the player) for the 2 pick, no strings attached. So I don't think it's absurd as some are making it out to be, especially since Miami is entertaining trade offers for the pick anyway, and before the Bulls knew they were getting the first pick, they were already in talks with Miami about trading Hinrich for their pick.

 

Right. They traded Elton Brand for the No. 2 pick, right after he had averaged 20 points and 10 boards as a 21-year-old. The Bulls don't have a player like that. I wish Jerry Krause would have been that smart.

 

Also, that was in a draft where there wasn't a player like Beasley or Rose available. The Clippers were willing to do that trade because Brand was better than what they thought Chandler or Curry would become.

 

I'm sure it's possible for the Bulls to get the second pick, but I think any trade they made -- by giving up multiple valuable pieces -- would be a bad one.

 

It's always great when the Clippers front office is smarter than your team's. :(

[RynoRules]

This Collins thing is just a horrendous decision. It might be the worst head coach hire in Chicago sports in my lifetime, though Cubs managers such as Tom Treblehorn also come to mind.

 

But let's not blame this on Reinsdorf's perceived "cheapness". Reinsdorf is not "cheap", and anyone who says he is simply is ignoring facts:

 

- He paid MJ more than 30 million dollars to play for one season

- He gave Albert Belle and enormous FA contract

- He paid Frank Thomas a great deal of money to play for the Sox through out all of his best years

- He allowed Kruase to use an enormous amount of cleared cap space after the break-up of the Bulls to throw huge money at Duncan, Hill and McGrady (its ot Reinsdorf's fault that they did not take it). When they didn't want it, he allowed Krause to use it on duds like Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson (but he still used it).

- The White Sox have retained their own veteran FA's with high price tags over the last several years, including Konerko and Dye, and acquired other expensive veterans via trade (Vazquez, Contreras, Cabrera, Thome, etc.).

- The Bulls have spent big money on extending Hinrich and Nocioni and reportedly offered contracts to Deng and Gordon.

 

This man is not cheap. He may not be perfect, but he is not cheap. If you want cheap, check out the other franchise playing its home games at the UC, Loria in Florida, etc.

[MPC]

Poop on a stick.

 

At least that means the next coach will bring the Bulls 6 championships, right?

 

It probably means that Mike is making another return

 

They can use Collins until Rose is just about ready to take the team to the next level, then bring in Phil Jackson for 6 championships in 8 years.

 

Rose better not be thinking minor league baseball.

 

as long as he doesn't develop a gambling problem there won't be a reason for a sham retirement/minor league stint

 

Can he still "be friends" with porn chicks?

 

On Boers and Bernstein Terry wouldn't say exactly why he thought Collins was let go. He said that he media was forced to speculate because the Bulls weren't that specific. So what is Terry talking about?

that's all boers ever does. he vaguely alludes to things like he has some insider info on it. but he never says anything until after the fact. it's quite annoying.

[Derwood]

technically, didn't the Clippers draft Chandler and then trade him for Brand?

[Tyrant]

technically, didn't the Clippers draft Chandler and then trade him for Brand?

 

Yes, I believe so.

[Soul]

Poop on a stick.

 

At least that means the next coach will bring the Bulls 6 championships, right?

 

It probably means that Mike is making another return

 

They can use Collins until Rose is just about ready to take the team to the next level, then bring in Phil Jackson for 6 championships in 8 years.

 

Rose better not be thinking minor league baseball.

 

as long as he doesn't develop a gambling problem there won't be a reason for a sham retirement/minor league stint

 

Can he still "be friends" with porn chicks?

 

On Boers and Bernstein Terry wouldn't say exactly why he thought Collins was let go. He said that he media was forced to speculate because the Bulls weren't that specific. So what is Terry talking about?

that's all boers ever does. he vaguely alludes to things like he has some insider info on it. but he never says anything until after the fact. it's quite annoying.

 

I think he doesn't really remember anything anymore, unless someone specifically says it first.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

 

- He paid MJ more than 30 million dollars to play for one season

-

 

He also told Jordan, to his face, how much he regretted that decision.

[David]

 

- He paid MJ more than 30 million dollars to play for one season

-

 

He also told Jordan, to his face, how much he regretted that decision.

 

To this day I'm almost positive that comment has been overblown.

 

 

He probably kiddingly said, "I'm really going to regret this," or something like that, like when a dad gives his kid a credit card or the keys to a car. Jerry is a pretty sarcastic person.

 

I highly doubt he was seriously trying to convey regret. "Oh, I don't want to do it but here take $30M anyway."

[David]

I can't even begin to understand where some people's perceptions that Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap comes from.

[jersey cubs fan]

I can't even begin to understand where some people's perceptions that Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap comes from.

 

It is the easiest complaint of all for fans and media to whine about. People like whining about people who have more money than them and assign to those people negative character traits.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I can't even begin to understand where some people's perceptions that Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap comes from.

umm..his refusal to pay the luxary tax?..despite the Bulls being the most profitable team in the NBA? It is also important to seperate out his ownership style of the White Sox and the Bulls. It is no secret he cares much more about baseball vs. basketball.

[RynoRules]

I can't even begin to understand where some people's perceptions that Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap comes from.

umm..his refusal to pay the luxary tax?..despite the Bulls being the most profitable team in the NBA? It is also important to seperate out his ownership style of the White Sox and the Bulls. It is no secret he cares much more about baseball vs. basketball.

 

That's a really dumb comment. How many owners pay the luxury tax other than the dumba** NY Knicks? And if it were true that he cares more about baseball he would have taken the 30-plus mill he paid Jordan and the extensions he recently gave to Hinrich and Noc and put them into the Sox. Plus he gave an expensive extension to Skiles, and paid millions to get Tim Floyd here (huge mistake, but still).

 

Moreover, do you realize that he is the Chairman and not the whole-and-sole owner of these teams? He has a responsibility to his partners to spend money in a way that makes sense, and not just spend it for the sake of spending.

 

I know this will come off badly and many if not all of you will not agree, but the whole "Reinsdorf is cheap thing" is so incredibly baseless that it smacks of anti-semitism.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

that it smacks of anti-semitism.

That is truly a reach.

[RynoRules]

that it smacks of anti-semitism.

That is truly a reach.

 

Its one possible motivation for people who unabashedly ignore facts and make baseless accusations that he is "cheap".

 

You have come up with one or two arguments (bad ones that are easily refuted, but still) in support of your position. I have asserted about 10 facts that Ican recall offhand that show he is anything but cheap. So how do you explain the fact that you along with many others continue to insist that he is in fact cheap?

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

You didn't refute my points..you just resorted to calling me a anti-semite. The Knicks are not the only team to pay the tax..the Lakers are paying it now(via Gasol) the Spurs are paying it as well. Plenty of successful teams have payed the tax.

[Guest]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

[Tyrant]

 

I know this will come off badly and many if not all of you will not agree, but the whole "Reinsdorf is cheap thing" is so incredibly baseless that it smacks of anti-semitism.

 

A few months ago, Kelly Dwyer (one of the better NBA writers out there) had a really interesting piece about the earnings of each team. The Bulls make $46 million in profit every year; the average NBA team makes $7 million.

 

Link

 

Dwyer has made much more pointed comments about Reinsdorf on some other blogs as well. While I won't go so far as to call Reinsdorf "cheap," I think there's some evidence that he pinches pennies more than he should. At least from a basketball perspective.

[RynoRules]

You didn't refute my points..you just resorted to calling me a anti-semite. The Knicks are not the only team to pay the tax..the Lakers are paying it now(via Gasol) the Spurs are paying it as well. Plenty of successful teams have payed the tax.

 

I refuted every single one of your points. You pointed to two issues:

 

1) A comment made in jest; and

2) Completely illogical argument: "if you don't pay the luxury tax you must be cheap". I haven't confirmed your info about the Lakers and Spurs, but do the Piston's pay it? The Jazz? The Rockets? All of these teams plus others have won consistently in recent years.

 

I had 10 or so facts that you could not refute.

 

So again, I ask: on what basis are you asserting that Reinsdorf is cheap?

[RynoRules]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

[jersey cubs fan]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

[RynoRules]

 

I know this will come off badly and many if not all of you will not agree, but the whole "Reinsdorf is cheap thing" is so incredibly baseless that it smacks of anti-semitism.

 

A few months ago, Kelly Dwyer (one of the better NBA writers out there) had a really interesting piece about the earnings of each team. The Bulls make $46 million in profit every year; the average NBA team makes $7 million.

 

Link

 

Dwyer has made much more pointed comments about Reinsdorf on some other blogs as well. While I won't go so far as to call Reinsdorf "cheap," I think there's some evidence that he pinches pennies more than he should. At least from a basketball perspective.

 

I am not sure I understand - we are assailing him for being a good business man? If the teams he fields always stunk there would be an argument there, but the reason the teams are so profitable is b/c the make the playoffs (the Sox did so several times in 90's and I won't bother reminding anyone of recent history; same goes for the Bulls) and win titles (7 in total).

[RynoRules]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

 

I disagree. Its a definite possibility in this case. Not necessarily "the" case, but a possibility.

 

Your explanation doesn't hold water with me either. I have presented a bunch of objective info illustrating how he is in fact not "cheap", yet the only comenback I get is that he won't pay the luxury tax.

Edited May 30, 2008 by RynoRules

[jersey cubs fan]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

 

I disagree. Its a definite possibility in this case.

 

You can't throw out accusations like that so willy-nilly. You had no proof, there was no hint of anything anti-semitic.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Let's reel back on the anti-Semitic accusations unless it's actually obvious.

 

1) Most people don't come out and say, "I subscribe to hateful stereotypes."

 

2) I did not accuse him. I made a comment based on the fact that he is one of many people who assert that Reinsdorf is cheap in spite of incontrovertable facts.

 

That was a clear accusation and way out of line. There was no hint of anything of the sort.

 

People whine about cheap owners, they always do. Is misguided as it may be, to call it anti-semitism is asinine.

 

I disagree. Its a definite possibility in this case.

it's also possible he has 5 nipples