Edmonds Quote

[SouthSideRyan]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

[CuseCubFan69]

Ramirez went into the future, realized he did bad in the upcoming playoffs, and panicked and sent the rest of the clubhouse into a panic.

 

Is it possible that once Ramirez started to struggle he pressed even harder and thus struggled even more? Why is it so hard for the analytical to accept this possibility? The Cub players have a lot of pressure on them and I've read comments where they said they didn't want to disappoint the city or really want to break the jinx and possibly struggle a little more than usual because of it? Or, are you just going to come up with another lame joke?

 

is it possible that he just had 11 bad at bats or whatever?

 

(yes. yes it is.)

 

I'm the one that isn't dealing in absolutes yet you felt compelled to call that out. I've been saying that there are a plethora of possibilities and it's possible that Edmonds may help some of the Cubs with his past history of success. Not, he will...it's just possible that he could. Could Ramirez have just had bad AB's because of the pitchers or an ump or for whatever, of course. As Ping pointed out earlier, some guys are more vocal and those vocal leaders may be able to help some other players that might be in a slump, not seeing the ball well, a little down in confidence or whatever. Soriano is a vocal guy but has shown that he struggles in the playoffs and yes, it is a small sample size I realize that. But some people/hitters/players react differently to pressure than others when certain situations present themselves.

[David]

Ramirez went into the future, realized he did bad in the upcoming playoffs, and panicked and sent the rest of the clubhouse into a panic.

 

Is it possible that once Ramirez started to struggle he pressed even harder and thus struggled even more? Why is it so hard for the analytical to accept this possibility? The Cub players have a lot of pressure on them and I've read comments where they said they didn't want to disappoint the city or really want to break the jinx and possibly struggle a little more than usual because of it? Or, are you just going to come up with another lame joke?

 

 

You've definitely got me beat in that department.

 

So Jim Edmonds might be a calming influence because of his playoff experience, but Ramirez, Lee, and Soriano (among others) didn't calm their teammates or themselves in last year's playoffs with theirs, do I have that right? Further, why would Edmonds be immune to this so-called Cubs pressure?

[CuseCubFan69]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

The point is a lot of different things happen.

[imb]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

i worked at walmart and i had to set up a stack of diapers in this display and one of my managers came over and said "if you do this well, you might have a future in this business" and i got real nervous so i accidentally stacked it wrong and the diapers collapsed on an old woman and paralyzed her so what i guess im saying is that clutch exists and youre wrong if you believe otherwise

[bukie]

Here's a trivia question related to the "clutch":

 

- Bill James calculates clutch situations into the Runs Created stat (involving average with RISP, and HRs with men on specifically). As of today, there are 5 Cubs that are above average "in the clutch". Who are they?

 

Bonus question: Who on the Cubs is the least "clutch" according to the statistic?

[CuseCubFan69]

Ramirez went into the future, realized he did bad in the upcoming playoffs, and panicked and sent the rest of the clubhouse into a panic.

 

Is it possible that once Ramirez started to struggle he pressed even harder and thus struggled even more? Why is it so hard for the analytical to accept this possibility? The Cub players have a lot of pressure on them and I've read comments where they said they didn't want to disappoint the city or really want to break the jinx and possibly struggle a little more than usual because of it? Or, are you just going to come up with another lame joke?

 

 

You've definitely got me beat in that department.

 

So Jim Edmonds might be a calming influence because of his playoff experience, but Ramirez, Lee, and Soriano (among others) didn't calm their teammates or themselves in last year's playoffs with theirs, do I have that right? Further, why would Edmonds be immune to this so-called Cubs pressure?

 

I didn't say he was. Sometimes it takes an outsider that has a different perspective to see things that a group of people that have been together haven't been able too. Why is Edmonds hitting the ball so well since he's been a Cub after struggling as a Card and Padre in the past couple of years? Is it just possible that a change of scenery and a chance to win mentally gave him a boost? I can't answer for those players you mentioned but all I've seen from them is that they are quiet, except for Sori. Players comment on this all the time but yet you think that it's voodoo. I'm certainly sure you know more than they do regarding what goes on in the Clubhouse and dugout.

[CubmanPi]

Here's a trivia question related to the "clutch":

 

- Bill James calculates clutch situations into the Runs Created stat (involving average with RISP, and HRs with men on specifically). As of today, there are 5 Cubs that are above average "in the clutch". Who are they?

 

Bonus question: Who on the Cubs is the least "clutch" according to the statistic?

I would imagine Cedeno is still high on that list. Other than that, I don't really have any guesses.

[CuseCubFan69]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

i worked at walmart and i had to set up a stack of diapers in this display and one of my managers came over and said "if you do this well, you might have a future in this business" and i got real nervous so i accidentally stacked it wrong and the diapers collapsed on an old woman and paralyzed her so what i guess im saying is that clutch exists and youre wrong if you believe otherwise

 

It's amazing, not once did I mention clutch but yet you threw that one in there to suit your own needs.

[imb]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

i worked at walmart and i had to set up a stack of diapers in this display and one of my managers came over and said "if you do this well, you might have a future in this business" and i got real nervous so i accidentally stacked it wrong and the diapers collapsed on an old woman and paralyzed her so what i guess im saying is that clutch exists and youre wrong if you believe otherwise

 

It's amazing, not once did I mention clutch but yet you threw that one in there to suit your own needs.

 

sorry, i get all the stupidity that people believe in confused sometimes

[CubColtPacer]

Here's a trivia question related to the "clutch":

 

- Bill James calculates clutch situations into the Runs Created stat (involving average with RISP, and HRs with men on specifically). As of today, there are 5 Cubs that are above average "in the clutch". Who are they?

 

Bonus question: Who on the Cubs is the least "clutch" according to the statistic?

 

I'll give a try, even though I know I'll probably be completely wrong.

 

Positive:

Reed Johnson

Alfonso Soriano

Ronny Cedeno

Aramis Ramirez

Kosuke Fukudome

 

Negative

Ryan Theriot

[CuseCubFan69]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

i worked at walmart and i had to set up a stack of diapers in this display and one of my managers came over and said "if you do this well, you might have a future in this business" and i got real nervous so i accidentally stacked it wrong and the diapers collapsed on an old woman and paralyzed her so what i guess im saying is that clutch exists and youre wrong if you believe otherwise

 

It's amazing, not once did I mention clutch but yet you threw that one in there to suit your own needs.

 

sorry, i get all the stupidity that people believe in confused sometimes

 

I'm sure you do.

[David]

Ramirez went into the future, realized he did bad in the upcoming playoffs, and panicked and sent the rest of the clubhouse into a panic.

 

Is it possible that once Ramirez started to struggle he pressed even harder and thus struggled even more? Why is it so hard for the analytical to accept this possibility? The Cub players have a lot of pressure on them and I've read comments where they said they didn't want to disappoint the city or really want to break the jinx and possibly struggle a little more than usual because of it? Or, are you just going to come up with another lame joke?

 

 

You've definitely got me beat in that department.

 

So Jim Edmonds might be a calming influence because of his playoff experience, but Ramirez, Lee, and Soriano (among others) didn't calm their teammates or themselves in last year's playoffs with theirs, do I have that right? Further, why would Edmonds be immune to this so-called Cubs pressure?

 

I didn't say he was. Sometimes it takes an outsider that has a different perspective to see things that a group of people that have been together haven't been able too. Why is Edmonds hitting the ball so well since he's been a Cub after struggling as a Card and Padre in the past couple of years? Is it just possible that a change of scenery and a chance to win mentally gave him a boost? I can't answer for those players you mentioned but all I've seen from them is that they are quiet, except for Sori. Players comment on this all the time but yet you think that it's voodoo. I'm certainly sure you know more than they do regarding what goes on in the Clubhouse and dugout.

 

That still wouldn't answer why their own experience didn't help them calm themselves.

 

It makes a lot more sense to me that they just had bad games, like they would at any other time.

 

Talking about stuff like this, even if it's for the sake of discussion, is the precise reason why players get reputations as bad clutch players or playoff chokers. ARod has that reputation now. Barry Bonds used to, until he magically figured out how to hit in the playoffs. It's pointless speculation that leads people to wrong conclusions, and there's pretty much no way of knowing if there's anything to it whatsoever. Nevertheless, people will run with that nonsense and these players are labeled for what amounts to bad timing of a few 0-fors, or running into a good pitching staff, or whatever else might be the true cause...

Edited August 14, 2008 by David

[SouthSideRyan]

Because of the timing of the question, I'd bet Derrek Lee is on there.

[abuck1220]

 

I didn't say he was. Sometimes it takes an outsider that has a different perspective to see things that a group of people that have been together haven't been able too.

 

wait, are we talking about baseball games or one of those big puzzles you see on like the real world/road rules challenge?

[imb]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

i worked at walmart and i had to set up a stack of diapers in this display and one of my managers came over and said "if you do this well, you might have a future in this business" and i got real nervous so i accidentally stacked it wrong and the diapers collapsed on an old woman and paralyzed her so what i guess im saying is that clutch exists and youre wrong if you believe otherwise

 

It's amazing, not once did I mention clutch but yet you threw that one in there to suit your own needs.

 

sorry, i get all the stupidity that people believe in confused sometimes

 

I'm sure you do.

 

what i should have said was that there is no way that jim edmonds is going to be a calming influence on anyone once the postseason starts. throwing out a bunch of useless hypotheticals is just wasting everyone's time.

[CuseCubFan69]

Ramirez went into the future, realized he did bad in the upcoming playoffs, and panicked and sent the rest of the clubhouse into a panic.

 

Is it possible that once Ramirez started to struggle he pressed even harder and thus struggled even more? Why is it so hard for the analytical to accept this possibility? The Cub players have a lot of pressure on them and I've read comments where they said they didn't want to disappoint the city or really want to break the jinx and possibly struggle a little more than usual because of it? Or, are you just going to come up with another lame joke?

 

 

You've definitely got me beat in that department.

 

So Jim Edmonds might be a calming influence because of his playoff experience, but Ramirez, Lee, and Soriano (among others) didn't calm their teammates or themselves in last year's playoffs with theirs, do I have that right? Further, why would Edmonds be immune to this so-called Cubs pressure?

 

I didn't say he was. Sometimes it takes an outsider that has a different perspective to see things that a group of people that have been together haven't been able too. Why is Edmonds hitting the ball so well since he's been a Cub after struggling as a Card and Padre in the past couple of years? Is it just possible that a change of scenery and a chance to win mentally gave him a boost? I can't answer for those players you mentioned but all I've seen from them is that they are quiet, except for Sori. Players comment on this all the time but yet you think that it's voodoo. I'm certainly sure you know more than they do regarding what goes on in the Clubhouse and dugout.

 

That still wouldn't answer why their own experience didn't help them calm themselves.

 

It makes a lot more sense to me that they just had bad games, like they would at any other time.

 

Talking about stuff like this, even if it's for the sake of discussion, is the precise reason why players get reputations as bad clutch players or playoff chokers. ARod has that reputation now. Barry Bonds used to, until he magically figured out how to hit in the playoffs. It's pointless speculation that leads people to wrong conclusions, and there's pretty much no way of knowing if there's anything to it whatsoever.

 

Again David...you're going to the extreme. I believe a good hitter is a good hitter. I agree with the fact that players could have bad series and are still good hitters and are not "choke artists". I get that. These guys are not machines even though they seem to play like them sometimes. You don't think that another player has ever helped a teammate with a tip or some other bit of advice that helped them in a situation? I'm not saying since Edmonds is on the team Sori is going to hit 500 but it is possible that he may give a tip to help him in an AB or to get into a positive frame of mind if he is struggling. I don't know, but it just surprises me that so many of you are 100% positive that this is a false statement.

[treebird]

i think it's just as likely that edmonds tells soto his butt looks big in his pants and geo gets sad and grounds out.

 

i mean, all this stuff is just completely arbitrary. even if it has the tiniest of impacts, there's absolutely no way to project of even reasonable speculate who is doing what and to what effect. in short, it's not worth talking about.

[CuseCubFan69]

When Geo struck out like 24 times in a row against the Nationals he wasn't pressing to impress people, he just wasn't seeing the ball well, and struck out a lot against crappy pitchers. It happens.

 

i worked at walmart and i had to set up a stack of diapers in this display and one of my managers came over and said "if you do this well, you might have a future in this business" and i got real nervous so i accidentally stacked it wrong and the diapers collapsed on an old woman and paralyzed her so what i guess im saying is that clutch exists and youre wrong if you believe otherwise

 

It's amazing, not once did I mention clutch but yet you threw that one in there to suit your own needs.

 

sorry, i get all the stupidity that people believe in confused sometimes

 

I'm sure you do.

 

what i should have said was that there is no way that jim edmonds is going to be a calming influence on anyone once the postseason starts. throwing out a bunch of useless hypotheticals is just wasting everyone's time.

 

Well....I said he may be. I said for some players or maybe one but hey, keep thinking I said the whole team and he was going to 100% be able to calm them down and win the whole darn thing. Plus, he'll get the credit for it too and everyone will think he's the next Jeter. There you go, that's what you're getting out of what I wrote so run with it.

[imb]

of course jim edmonds could tell aramis a tip that could lead to a basehit or whatever but in that way he's no different than any other play on any roster in the majors. so what's the point?

[treebird]

of course jim edmonds could tell aramis a tip that could lead to a basehit or whatever but in that way he's no different than any other play on any roster in the majors. so what's the point?

 

this is like the chaos theory of baseball. maybe if the cubs don't add kevin hart to the roster early in the season, someone else is there who would have told bob howry how to get people out later in the season.

 

it's turtles all the way down.

[CuseCubFan69]

i think it's just as likely that edmonds tells soto his butt looks big in his pants and geo gets sad and grounds out.

 

i mean, all this stuff is just completely arbitrary. even if it has the tiniest of impacts, there's absolutely no way to project of even reasonable speculate who is doing what and to what effect. in short, it's not worth talking about.

 

 

Why Tree? Because we can't put a number on it? I just don't get the need to quantify every little detail in baseball and if it can't be explained, it's a waste of time or hogwash. I don't know what kind of an effect it has and I'm sure at times none but I just don't see why certain things like this are so dismissed by people who need numbers. Honestly, not that this is you, but many posters act just like the people in baseball they hate the most (Joe M) and deny everything "Old school" just as he does the number crunchers. This debate just reminds me of Conservatives and Liberals and I just don't understand why some can't see a possibility of a middle road or even the others side.

[CuseCubFan69]

of course jim edmonds could tell aramis a tip that could lead to a basehit or whatever but in that way he's no different than any other play on any roster in the majors. so what's the point?

 

First of all I didn't think it was a big deal when i mentioned it at the beginning of the post, it was just something I'd hoped he'd be able to do. But, wouldn't it be nice if he did give a tip and Ramirez got a hit? What if Rammy was struggling and Edmonds gave the tip, is it possible that might get him out of his rut? I never really thought saying Edmonds might help a teammate out would be such a big thing but for some reason it seems I touched a nerve with this. Heck IMB...even if it's one hit it would be worth it. How do we decide that it doesn't change things even a little?

[SouthSideRyan]

I think the problem everyone has with this possibility is why is Edmonds more likely to give out advice than somebody else? Just because Edmonds is old doesn't mean he's more likely to give out good advice than someone who isn't. Lenny Harris seems to have a hitting coach job solely on the basis that he's old and played baseball for a long time, and he's out there ruining everyone's career by giving out his advice.

[imb]

i think it's just as likely that edmonds tells soto his butt looks big in his pants and geo gets sad and grounds out.

 

i mean, all this stuff is just completely arbitrary. even if it has the tiniest of impacts, there's absolutely no way to project of even reasonable speculate who is doing what and to what effect. in short, it's not worth talking about.

 

 

Why Tree? Because we can't put a number on it? I just don't get the need to quantify every little detail in baseball and if it can't be explained, it's a waste of time or hogwash. I don't know what kind of an effect it has and I'm sure at times none but I just don't see why certain things like this are so dismissed by people who need numbers. Honestly, not that this is you, but many posters act just like the people in baseball they hate the most (Joe M) and deny everything "Old school" just as he does the number crunchers. This debate just reminds me of Conservatives and Liberals and I just don't understand why some can't see a possibility of a middle road or even the others side.

 

i don't think you get it. everyone admits that edmonds might have some knowledge he can pass on, just that the chance that it actually makes any kind of meaningful difference is so slim that it's not worth talking about.