In Defense Of Jason Marquis

[Ski]

Jason Marquis seems to get a lot of hate on this board, usually in the game thread before the game that he pitches. Now, I know he had as stretch of bad starts earlier in the year, but I think he has picked it back up enough for me not to chalk up every game by him a loss.

 

Why does everyone still hate him? His ERA is 4.50-ish, which is pretty good for a 5th starter. Of course, everyone has bad days, but Marquis has been pretty good as of recently. He had a quality start against the Pirates in that 3-0 loss, and remember when everyone chalked up that Marquis vs. Halliday matchup as a loss? Marquis tossed 6 shutout innings.

 

So basically, I think Marquis is a good number 5 starter who doesn't deserve all the hate he has been getting.

[shnsajax]

Jason Marquis seems to get a lot of hate on this board, usually in the game thread before the game that he pitches. Now, I know he had as stretch of bad starts earlier in the year, but I think he has picked it back up enough for me not to chalk up every game by him a loss.

 

Why does everyone still hate him? His ERA is 4.50-ish, which is pretty good for a 5th starter. Of course, everyone has bad days, but Marquis has been pretty good as of recently. He had a quality start against the Pirates in that 3-0 loss, and remember when everyone chalked up that Marquis vs. Halliday matchup as a loss? Marquis tossed 6 shutout innings.

 

So basically, I think Marquis is a good number 5 starter who doesn't deserve all the hate he has been getting.

 

I think it's a matter of Marshall being able to do just as good. And for less.

[Wilson A2000]

I too think it is partly a money issue. He was the statistically worst starting pitcher in in the NL in 2006 and he got a 3 year, 21 million dollar deal. But I also think that there are a few pitchers who can do better, including Marshall. Lou is supposed to be this "my way or the highway" manager, but after Jason's comments in ST about not wanting to go to the pen, the half-run better than Marshall could do might not be worth the stink he would raise. Or maybe Marquis would be terrible in the pen.

[Sammy Sofa]

Same as Jacque...it's mostly about the money.

[BigSlick]

We are going to pay him 9+ Million dollars a year next year to blow

 

and he will start if not injured, because our front office is more obsessed with us playing players who are getting paid then playing those who deserve to play

[TruffleShuffle]

and he will start if not injured, because our front office is more obsessed with us playing players who are getting paid then playing those who deserve to play

 

they are?

[BigSlick]

and he will start if not injured, because our front office is more obsessed with us playing players who are getting paid then playing those who deserve to play

 

they are?

Why has the front office pushed and pulled Marshall around so much? Explain this to me, please, I'd love to understand it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

and he will start if not injured, because our front office is more obsessed with us playing players who are getting paid then playing those who deserve to play

 

they are?

Why has the front office pushed and pulled Marshall around so much? Explain this to me, please, I'd love to understand it.

because they are obsessed

[TheDude]

Jason Marquis seems to get a lot of hate on this board, usually in the game thread before the game that he pitches. Now, I know he had as stretch of bad starts earlier in the year, but I think he has picked it back up enough for me not to chalk up every game by him a loss.

 

Why does everyone still hate him? His ERA is 4.50-ish, which is pretty good for a 5th starter. Of course, everyone has bad days, but Marquis has been pretty good as of recently. He had a quality start against the Pirates in that 3-0 loss, and remember when everyone chalked up that Marquis vs. Halliday matchup as a loss? Marquis tossed 6 shutout innings.

 

So basically, I think Marquis is a good number 5 starter who doesn't deserve all the hate he has been getting.

 

There is no easy way to pull up numbers for supposed 5th starters on all teams to build a comparison, but Marquis almost certainly holds up in that context. That doesn't mean he is good though.

 

The reason people dislike Marquis is really more of a transfered aggression aimed at Hendry and the typical fan frustration associated with the obsession everyone has with minor leaguers. It's the unwritten rule sports - you root for the young, unproven guys to get a chance and succeed. Hendry signed Marquis at a time when the Cubs had 2-3 unproven minor leaguers or rookies possibly ready to break through into the big leagues full time, if only given a chance.

 

So not only does Marquis represent an opportunity cost (wasted money that could have gone elsewhere), but he also killed the chances of several young players for a couple of years. Add in the fact that he simply struggles to put up league average numbers, and you've got the three-pronged boiler plate for fan frustration.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If Marquis keeps doing what he has so far this season, he'll be a more than solid #5. Unfortunatly, history tells us that he'll met down completely sooner than later.

[Banedon]

Here's a few reasons why I don't like Marquis:

 

When Marquis was signed, he wasn't supposed to be a #5, he was supposed to be a #3 behind Z and Lilly.

 

Marquis is pitching slightly worse this year than last year based on hits per inning, runs per inning, and ERA. (I'm sure there's some better stats I should be using, but the point is that he's not exactly getting any better.)

 

Marquis is making $6.4 million this season. That's $2million more than Rich Harden is making this season.

 

I believe Sean Marshall, if not a better pitcher now, certainly has a higher ceiling than Jason Marquis as far as growth.

[CubColtPacer]

Here's a few reasons why I don't like Marquis:

 

When Marquis was signed, he wasn't supposed to be a #5, he was supposed to be a #3 behind Z and Lilly.

 

Marquis is pitching slightly worse this year than last year based on hits per inning, runs per inning, and ERA. (I'm sure there's some better stats I should be using, but the point is that he's not exactly getting any better.)

 

Marquis is making $6.4 million this season. That's $2million more than Rich Harden is making this season.

 

I believe Sean Marshall, if not a better pitcher now, certainly has a higher ceiling than Jason Marquis as far as growth.

 

Marquis was signed to be the #4 behind Z, Lilly, and Hill.

 

I agree with you that Marquis is not going to get any better.

 

The concern with Marshall is you automatically need a pitcher who's ready to step in for when Marshall gets hurt, and Marshall's history has shown that it will happen during the season. That's the one thing that Marquis gives you is stability, something that Marshall hasn't been able to do in his career.

 

As for the contract, comparing him to an arbitration pitcher like Harden is comparing apples and oranges. But I do agree that the Cubs are in a pretty good position for pitching in 09, and so dumping Marquis and his contract would probably be a good move. It was like the Eyre move that the Cubs did today. It's not necessarily the fact that Marquis hasn't done the job is the reason the Cubs should want to get rid of him. It's just that the Cubs have the luxury with how they've built their team of getting rid of mediocrity, and that is quite a luxury to have.

[Banedon]

Marquis was signed to be the #4 behind Z, Lilly, and Hill.

 

I'm gonna quibble with you here. Hill hadn't pitched a full season yet when Marquis was signed. Marquis pitched the 3rd game of the season last year. Hill pitched 4th.

[chuckywang]

Jason Marquis seems to get a lot of hate on this board, usually in the game thread before the game that he pitches. Now, I know he had as stretch of bad starts earlier in the year, but I think he has picked it back up enough for me not to chalk up every game by him a loss.

 

Why does everyone still hate him? His ERA is 4.50-ish, which is pretty good for a 5th starter. Of course, everyone has bad days, but Marquis has been pretty good as of recently. He had a quality start against the Pirates in that 3-0 loss, and remember when everyone chalked up that Marquis vs. Halliday matchup as a loss? Marquis tossed 6 shutout innings.

 

So basically, I think Marquis is a good number 5 starter who doesn't deserve all the hate he has been getting.

 

I think it's a matter of Marshall being able to do just as good. And for less.

 

Marquis is a sunk cost.

[CubColtPacer]

Marquis was signed to be the #4 behind Z, Lilly, and Hill.

 

I'm gonna quibble with you here. Hill hadn't pitched a full season yet when Marquis was signed. Marquis pitched the 3rd game of the season last year. Hill pitched 4th.

 

The only reason Hill pitched the 4th game is because Lou wanted to split up the left-handers.

 

When Marquis was signed, every article and quote had him as the 4th starter behind those 3, with 1 of Prior/Miller/Guzman filling the 5th spot.

[Banedon]

Marquis was signed to be the #4 behind Z, Lilly, and Hill.

 

I'm gonna quibble with you here. Hill hadn't pitched a full season yet when Marquis was signed. Marquis pitched the 3rd game of the season last year. Hill pitched 4th.

 

The only reason Hill pitched the 4th game is because Lou wanted to split up the left-handers.

 

When Marquis was signed, every article and quote had him as the 4th starter behind those 3, with 1 of Prior/Miller/Guzman filling the 5th spot.

 

Gotcha...that sounds familiar now. He's still a damn expensive medicore 5th starter.

[jersey cubs fan]

So basically, I think Marquis is a good number 5 starter who doesn't deserve all the hate he has been getting.

 

And basically, I think it is absurd to say he's perfectly fine for a number 5 starter. He's a starting pitcher, and not a good one. The fact that he's better than most number 5 is absolutely meaningless. You have 5 starters, your worst one should not get the benefit of being compared against everybody else's worst starter.

[NCCubFan]

Jason Marquis seems to get a lot of hate on this board, usually in the game thread before the game that he pitches. Now, I know he had as stretch of bad starts earlier in the year, but I think he has picked it back up enough for me not to chalk up every game by him a loss.

 

Why does everyone still hate him? His ERA is 4.50-ish, which is pretty good for a 5th starter. Of course, everyone has bad days, but Marquis has been pretty good as of recently. He had a quality start against the Pirates in that 3-0 loss, and remember when everyone chalked up that Marquis vs. Halliday matchup as a loss? Marquis tossed 6 shutout innings.

 

So basically, I think Marquis is a good number 5 starter who doesn't deserve all the hate he has been getting.

 

I think it's a matter of Marshall being able to do just as good. And for less.

 

Marquis is a sunk cost.

He's also an opportunity cost (every game he starts is a game Marshall is not starting).

[Jehrico]

After putting up his best month in over a year last month, all we can say is "he's not a bad #5." Any regular starter with job security should have us saying something alot better than that after putting up their best month in over a year. There's also the aforementioned frustration that we don't know exactly what we have in Marshall, as we've never given him an extensive, deserved look because of Marquis.

 

 

 

 

FTW, he put up a 3.81 era last month.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Jehrico

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Even by the standards of all starters, he's about average.

[Ski]

I think baseball tonight on ESPN radio last night had a great point to make about Marquis. Although some fans may not like him, he eats innings, and he is a reliable pitcher who will take the ball every 5th day. BT also said that perhaps some fans expect every pitcher on their team to be an ace, which simply isn't a realistic expectation. Plenty of teams would be glad to have Marquis.

 

Just passing on what hey said, although I suppose the points about money and having other pitchers who can start still stand. I still "don't mind" Marquis.

[David]

I think baseball tonight on ESPN radio last night had a great point to make about Marquis. Although some fans may not like him, he eats innings, and he is a reliable pitcher who will take the ball every 5th day. BT also said that perhaps some fans expect every pitcher on their team to be an ace, which simply isn't a realistic expectation. Plenty of teams would be glad to have Marquis.

 

Just passing on what hey said, although I suppose the points about money and having other pitchers who can start still stand. I still "don't mind" Marquis.

 

Marshall could do the same or better for around the league minimum.

 

I think that's where most people's problem with Jason Marquis really comes from.

[David]

I should've actually read the thread and realized that point has been made 10 times already.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think baseball tonight on ESPN radio last night had a great point to make about Marquis. Although some fans may not like him, he eats innings, and he is a reliable pitcher who will take the ball every 5th day. BT also said that perhaps some fans expect every pitcher on their team to be an ace, which simply isn't a realistic expectation. Plenty of teams would be glad to have Marquis.

 

Just passing on what hey said, although I suppose the points about money and having other pitchers who can start still stand. I still "don't mind" Marquis.

 

Marshall could do the same or better for around the league minimum.

 

I think that's where most people's problem with Jason Marquis really comes from.

 

You have to love the implication that there are only three types of pitchers, aces, good enough guys, and completely useless ones. Complaining about Marquis does not mean people want nothing but aces.

 

I also enjoyed Dave Van Dyk's absurd game story where he referred to Marquis as the pitching hero (because he got the win) and then claiming he's pitched better than his record even though he'd just got an undeserved win thanks solely to an absurd offensive explosion.

[CubColtPacer]

Hmm..I put a post in, realized that it somehow double posted it, so I deleted one copy and it deleted both.

 

Basically, I was agreeing with jersey on the idea that the article is absolutely wrong if is says that the win totals for Marquis do not reflect how well he's pitched. He should be right around a .500 record with how he's pitched, and while the team hasn't given him a lot of run support lately, they have given him plenty of run support when looking at the full season.