Yost = Baker

[Jehrico]

Watching these last two games against the Brewers, I can't help but get the feeling we were playing our own 2004 Cubbies. The Brewers have a couple of stud arms to ride and a very potent offense. However, that team is fundamentally unsound. Poor defense and bad decision making seem to plague this team on the field. My biggest complaint during the Dusty era was that we never seemed to have a fundamentally sound baseball team under him. It was just assumed that big leaguers would have the basics down. We underachieved because of it. Yost's Brewers draw alot of parallels right now. Anyone else see the parallels? Milwaukee would be justified in removing him, even though they've got about the best record that franchise has had at this point in a very long time.

[bcl412]

I am getting the same feeling when I watch the Brewers play. All I can think about when I see one of his starters pitching well with a high pitch count is Dusty trying to ride his horses. Hopefully, though, Yost is about as good as Dusty was because than we have smooth sailing to the division crown.

[jersey cubs fan]

Watching these last two games against the Brewers, I can't help but get the feeling we were playing our own 2004 Cubbies. The Brewers have a couple of stud arms to ride and a very potent offense. However, that team is fundamentally unsound. Poor defense and bad decision making seem to plague this team on the field. My biggest complaint during the Dusty era was that we never seemed to have a fundamentally sound baseball team under him. It was just assumed that big leaguers would have the basics down. We underachieved because of it. Yost's Brewers draw alot of parallels right now. Anyone else see the parallels? Milwaukee would be justified in removing him, even though they've got about the best record that franchise has had at this point in a very long time.

 

I can't understand how anybody could have a bigger complaint than he willfully destroyed young starting pitchers.

 

The bad fundamentals didn't make them underperform. They stunk after they killed arms and because they could not score due to a complete inability/unwillingness to draw walks and get on base.

[davearm2]

The Brewers definitely have a tendency to self-destruct. Monday was a prime example... Weeks botching a critical defensive play, and then the bullpen flopping late.

 

As for riding Sheets and Sabathia hard -- why not? They're likely both gone soon.

 

Parra's pitch counts have been reasonable, as were Gallardo's last year.

[CubinNY]

Yost manages kind of like Dusty but without all of the 10ç philosophy and deflection. I think he actually does more stupid stuff too.

[CuseCubFan69]

All I can say is that having Yost, Baker and Wade in the NL Central is a very good thing.

[David]

The Brewers definitely have a tendency to self-destruct. Monday was a prime example... Weeks botching a critical defensive play, and then the bullpen flopping late.

 

As for riding Sheets and Sabathia hard -- why not? They're likely both gone soon.

 

Parra's pitch counts have been reasonable, as were Gallardo's last year.

 

 

The thing is, it doesn't necessarily have to take until beyond this season for the effects of such overuse to manifest themselves.

[davearm2]

The Brewers definitely have a tendency to self-destruct. Monday was a prime example... Weeks botching a critical defensive play, and then the bullpen flopping late.

 

As for riding Sheets and Sabathia hard -- why not? They're likely both gone soon.

 

Parra's pitch counts have been reasonable, as were Gallardo's last year.

 

 

The thing is, it doesn't necessarily have to take until beyond this season for the effects of such overuse to manifest themselves.

When you've got the bullpen the Brewers do, you leave the studs in an extra inning and take your chances.

[abuck1220]

baker's cub teams underperformed because they had a lot of injuries to pitchers and they had a horrible approach at the plate. it wasn't because they missed cut off men or whatever your high school baseball coach liked to stress.

[Brewers77]

This is why fans of other teams should not comment on things like this. How is Yost riding pitchers hard? CC and Sheets both have had reasonable pitch counts. I am not going to look up the exact numbers, but in CC's complete games he had 110 and 118 pitches. I guess if that is considered riding a pitcher hard, you just expect all pitchers to be treated like the injury riddled Harden. Some pitchers can actually pitch over 100 pitches got forbid. Give it a restand get some facts straight. Saying they will be tired at the end of the year?? I guess alot of pitchers are going to be tired seeing most go over 100 pitches during a start.

[JimSorgi]

This is why fans of other teams should not comment on things like this. How is Yost riding pitchers hard? CC and Sheets both have had reasonable pitch counts. I am not going to look up the exact numbers, but in CC's complete games he had 110 and 118 pitches. I guess if that is considered riding a pitcher hard, you just expect all pitchers to be treated like the injury riddled Harden. Some pitchers can actually pitch over 100 pitches got forbid. Give it a restand get some facts straight. Saying they will be tired at the end of the year?? I guess alot of pitchers are going to be tired seeing most go over 100 pitches during a start.

 

C.C. Sabathia and Ben Sheets are #1 and #3 in PAP.

[Guest]

And CC sure looked kind of gassed in the playoffs last season after racking up the regular season innings.

[Jehrico]

This is why fans of other teams should not comment on things like this. How is Yost riding pitchers hard? CC and Sheets both have had reasonable pitch counts. I am not going to look up the exact numbers, but in CC's complete games he had 110 and 118 pitches. I guess if that is considered riding a pitcher hard, you just expect all pitchers to be treated like the injury riddled Harden. Some pitchers can actually pitch over 100 pitches got forbid. Give it a restand get some facts straight. Saying they will be tired at the end of the year?? I guess alot of pitchers are going to be tired seeing most go over 100 pitches during a start.

So you have to be a fan of a team to see that your two pitchers, one of whom has quite a history on the DL, are leading the league in pitcher abuse points? That's seems like a pretty asinine suggestion to me. I'll give you that Sabathia wasn't necessarily racking up astronomical pitch counts that he couldn't handle, but you've got to be concerned that Sheets has gotten ridden hard, Brewers fan or not.

[17 Seconds]

I made the comparison between the 2008 Brewers and 2004 Cubs about a month ago. Both teams had a crappy bullpen, crappy defense, and both teams relied on an all or nothing home run offense. Watching the Brewers flail at every pitch within 10 feet on the plate all week reminds me so much of the 2004 Cubs offense. Ultimately, the bullpen and offense ended up costing the 2004 team.

[wvcbxl]

Yost manages kind of like Dusty but without all of the 10ç philosophy and deflection. I think he actually does more stupid stuff too.

 

Does Yost like to fish?

[biittner77]

Very few managers have the discipline to not ride their pitchers too hard. I for one was pretty surprised that Marmol didn't pitch the 9th last night.

 

The Brewers have traded defense for offense at 3rd, 1st and LF. Big deal, Lots of teams do that.

 

Ned Yost is still an idiot.

[Ball And Glove]

Yost manages kind of like Dusty but without all of the 10ç philosophy and deflection. I think he actually does more stupid stuff too.

 

Does Yost like to fish?

 

He's big into hunting during the offseason. Close enough, I'd say.

 

Yost's biggest problem is that he tries too hard to manage like his mentor Bobby Cox, but he's never had the insane amount of talent on his team that Bobby has had. He tries to stray away from that old school "conventional" thinking every now and then, but when he does it's either a ridiculously stupid idea (like platooning pitchers) or he doesn't stick with it long enough to see if it's actually working (like with the pitcher hitting 8th). When he gets called out on it, he says his critics don't know what they're talking about because they've never managed (last year, he said something about installing a sofa in the dugout so all the armchair managers can see it's not so easy).

 

If there's one thing that Yost and Baker definitely have in common, it's the trademark poses they do while their teams are melting down. Dusty always leaned on the fence of the dugout, munching on his toothpick and staring straight ahead with no real emotion on his face. Yost stands there with his hands in his armpits with that stupid little "I'm gonna get blasted for this one" smirk on his face. Both are beyond irritating to see while they leave their pitchers in 3 batters too long because they didn't bother to get the bullpen fired up until there were two guys in scoring position.

[Derwood]

Braun bunting today

 

In two different at-bats

 

 

SO AWESOME

[mul21]

This is why fans of other teams should not comment on things like this. How is Yost riding pitchers hard? CC and Sheets both have had reasonable pitch counts. I am not going to look up the exact numbers, but in CC's complete games he had 110 and 118 pitches. I guess if that is considered riding a pitcher hard, you just expect all pitchers to be treated like the injury riddled Harden. Some pitchers can actually pitch over 100 pitches got forbid. Give it a restand get some facts straight. Saying they will be tired at the end of the year?? I guess alot of pitchers are going to be tired seeing most go over 100 pitches during a start.

 

The CG against the Cards was 106 pitches I believe. All his other starts with the Brewers have been 110+ if I remeber right and then he threw 124 on Monday. Sheets is a walking injury just about every year and you need to be careful with him if you expect him to do anything down the stretch for you. CC, as somebody else said, looked like he was tired in the playoffs last year. To top it all off, they are in fact #1 and 3 in PAP.

 

You do see good managers ride their pitchers for big pitch counts but the next start or 2 they back them off a little. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dempster only throw 90 pitches or so in his next outing. Z on threw about 95(?) the game after his 130 pitch performance. You can ride the guys, but they need a break occasionally to keep them fresh and healthy.

 

ETA: CC's pitch counts-97, 110, 122, 106, and 124

[brinoch]

This is why fans of other teams should not comment on things like this. How is Yost riding pitchers hard? CC and Sheets both have had reasonable pitch counts. I am not going to look up the exact numbers, but in CC's complete games he had 110 and 118 pitches. I guess if that is considered riding a pitcher hard, you just expect all pitchers to be treated like the injury riddled Harden. Some pitchers can actually pitch over 100 pitches got forbid. Give it a restand get some facts straight. Saying they will be tired at the end of the year?? I guess alot of pitchers are going to be tired seeing most go over 100 pitches during a start.

 

C.C. Sabathia and Ben Sheets are #1 and #3 in PAP.

 

To be fair Zambrano and Dempster are #2 and #12, respectively. I know I'm worried about Dempster hitting a wall.

[TruffleShuffle]

gotta give him credit, he can't manage his way out of a paper bag, but when an aging outfielder takes his pitchers deep twice, ned knows how to tell his pitcher to throw at him.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yost stands there with his hands in his armpits with that stupid little "I'm gonna get blasted for this one" smirk on his face.

 

Does he do that Horatio Caine sunglass readjustment thing often? It was so dramatic when he put them back on.

[Jehrico]

gotta give him credit, he can't manage his way out of a paper bag, but when an aging outfielder takes his pitchers deep twice, ned knows how to tell his pitcher to throw at him.

You may be giving Ned too much credit. How do you know the pitcher didn't do that on his own?

[TruffleShuffle]

gotta give him credit, he can't manage his way out of a paper bag, but when an aging outfielder takes his pitchers deep twice, ned knows how to tell his pitcher to throw at him.

You may be giving Ned too much credit. How do you know the pitcher didn't do that on his own?

 

pitchers generally don't just throw at players on their own. they'll sometimes do it if the opposing pitchers have been throwing at his teammates, but to throw at a player who's hit your other pitchers well? that usually comes from the manager.

[Ball And Glove]

Wasn't it the first batter Gagne was facing, too? Usually you don't throw at the first guy you face unless you're getting orders from someone.

 

Plus there's Ned's history of putting sucky pitchers in to start an inning just to hit someone -- he did the same thing at the end of last season when he put in Seth McClung to bean Albert Pujols, knowing full well that McClung would get tossed. He even had Turnbow warming up anticipating it. I guess he figures if he throws a guy out there who sucks enough, he can just claim that a ball "got away from him."

 

I think that was even McClung's defense when he was appealing his suspension, and it worked. He was the first guy I could remember basically saying "No, really, I suck that much" and getting his suspension reduced.

 

Either way, it's just stupid to throw at a guy, and it's one of the things I hate most about Ned "Flanders" Yost. As a guy who already botches bullpen management horribly, he doesn't need the extra disadvantage of having a shorthanded bullpen for a few games, and he's putting his players in the line of fire the next time they face that team.