All Star Game Discussion

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You're going to blame Clint Hurdle for taking Aaron Cook? He was a lock for MVP if the NL won.

for putting all those guys on base? 4 hits, 3 BBs in 3 innings isn't all that spectacular (and yes, I realize 2 were intentional). he threw 42 pitches, and only half were strikes

[cubweiser03]

I didnt like they needed to use Webb and Kazmir. Id like to see them expand the rosters for the pitchers. Bring in 2 or 3 more pitchers per team, thats were the problem lies not about subing in the positional players. I dont think its fair to say well they should use the pitchers more, especially guys who are on contending teams.

 

I thought the game was over when they brought it Wagner.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't like that the winner gets HFA, but the game last night was so entertaining that it was worth it. A couple ideas that have been tossed around.

 

-Allow positional player re-entry, or at least a set number. It's great that guys like McLouth and Ludwick and Cristian Guzman made the All-Star team and all, but a device keeping them from getting 4 plate appearances would be nice.

 

-Expand the break from 3 days to 5 and play the game Wednesday. That way every pitcher is on at least two days rest during the game, and the additional 2 days after pitching 1-2 IP ensures they can start their teams 1st game out of the break if needed.

 

-Force pitchers to be in or out. No more of this "I'd rather not pitch because I pitched Sunday, but I guess if worse came to worse..." stuff. You're either available to pitch 1-2 innings at any point, or someone takes your spot for the game.

[jyoung55]

IF it is going to count, I think the following should be the new ground rules:

 

1 - It is a 7 inning game (it is an exhibition there is no need for it to be a full 9 innings, last night would have ended at midnight eastern even if it had only gone to regulation).

 

2 - Pitchers are only allowed to go one inning and if the player went more than one inning in his team's last regular season game he is not allowed to pitch in the all-star game and an alternate selected in his place although the player substituted for is still technically an all-star and free to be involved in the festivities.

 

3 - Rosters are expanded from 32 (or whatever they are now) to 40, and all of those additional players are pitchers picked solely by the manager.

[BigbadB]

You're going to blame Clint Hurdle for taking Aaron Cook? He was a lock for MVP if the NL won.

 

I prefer to make my argument without the use of hindsight. You have 2 all star roster spots left, you have these three to pick from (the game has not started yet, so you have no idea how any of them performed beforehand):

 

Jake Peavy

Johan Santana

Aaron Cook

 

Which 2 do you take?

 

Because Hurdle will be sitting at home watching the World Series, obviously it was an easy choice to take his own guy. He doesn't care who wins because it doesn't affect him one bit.

[Mizzou]

On another note, George Steinbrenner looked to be in pretty bad condition last night. What's going on with him?

[Derwood]

On another note, George Steinbrenner looked to be in pretty bad condition last night. What's going on with him?

 

how good would you look if Hank was your son?

[Tracer Bullet]

 

The AL is just deeper than the NL, when it comes to talent.

 

come on...they played 15 innings of absolutely evenly matched baseball. i don't think you can make any definitive statement about either league based on that.

 

I'm not making a definitive statement about the relative talent in either league based on the ASG, though I think it certainly supports the claim.

 

Even ignoring the ASG, I didn't think there was any remaining dispute that the AL is significantly better than the NL right now.

[Tracer Bullet]

Uggla and Wagner deserve every bit of derision they get, but let's not forget about Lidge and his old habit of giving it up in high-pressure situations as well. He needs to be nicknamed "Choke."

 

Let's also crap on Hurdle. Since the game is supposed to mean something, since it's supposed to count, you don't try to get everyone in the game. You try to win. The tie wasn't that long ago, it should have been on his mind that he needs to be prepared for a long game. He was managing the game as if he were managing an AS game in the 90s when it meant nothing.

 

Cubs pitchers for the night: 4IP, 1 H, 0B, 6 K. I like it!

 

Wait, Hurdle is to blame for playing all of his players? I watched most of the game and I could have sworn that Buck said Francona only had 1 player left on his bench in about the 6th or 7th. So the managers managed the same way (to get everyone into the game).

 

The AL is just deeper than the NL, when it comes to talent. The starters for each league are pretty evenly matched. But the AL bench was far superior to the NL bench, if you ask me (sizemore, Longoria, Morneau, Kinsler). And the RPs are much better (Nathan, Paps, KRod, Rivera in consecutive innings - holy crap).

 

Yes. Hurdle is to blame for this entire mess. Well, it's Selig's mess to begin with, but it's Hurdle's fault we lost. Isn't he the one who pick's his pitching staff? How can you honestly pick a pitching staff and not have Johan Santana and Jake Peavy on the roster? I don't care what their records are or what their other significant stats are, these are absolutely 2 of the best pitchers in the NL, and I'd much rather have these guys with a game on the line than Aaron Cook or Brad Lidge or even Carlos Marmol right now.

 

This is no longer about getting every player in the game. This is about home field advantage, as stupid as that may sound. I will applaud the first manager who says "screw playing time, I want to win this game". Ah, but the good ole boy network probably doesn't have a single manager who has the nads to buck the system.

 

This will forever stay one of the dumbest things Bud Selig did under his legacy of doing dumb things.

 

The pitching staff held the AL to 4 runs in 15 innings and didn't exactly have stellar defense behind them.

 

I also can't believe anyone really expects a manager to play starters for 8 innings. I don't care if the game "counts" all those guys want to play. But most of the starters only want to play 3-4 innings anyway. It's not the old boys club that's stopping the manager from playing starters the entire game. It's wanting to please 30 guys that all want to play. Sounds like little league, but that's the overriding influence.

 

I think it's BS to blame a manager for losing an ASG. He's put into a BS situation by Selig and he's trying to please a bunch of people. And of course he took Aaron Cook. Same reason the ASG was full of Yankees for about 10 years. To the "victor" goes the spoils. How many ASGs do you think Hurdle expects to manage?

 

Making an exhibition "count" by basing HFA in the championship series on the winner is stupid.

[TruffleShuffle]

On another note, George Steinbrenner looked to be in pretty bad condition last night. What's going on with him?

 

he's been in poor health for the past few years, and i think his mental acuity is not really there any more. this is the worst-reported "major" story in sports, i think.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're going to blame Clint Hurdle for taking Aaron Cook? He was a lock for MVP if the NL won.

 

I prefer to make my argument without the use of hindsight. You have 2 all star roster spots left, you have these three to pick from (the game has not started yet, so you have no idea how any of them performed beforehand):

 

Jake Peavy

Johan Santana

Aaron Cook

 

Which 2 do you take?

 

Because Hurdle will be sitting at home watching the World Series, obviously it was an easy choice to take his own guy. He doesn't care who wins because it doesn't affect him one bit.

 

You did make a hindsight argument. You said Hurdle lost the game by taking Aaron Cook instead of Santana or Peavy, which given Cook's performance(yes it was MVP worthy for the Uggla inning alone) is madness.

 

The other thing Hurdle has by taking his own guy was he was able to stretch him out and pitch him 3 innings, which he'd be unlikely to do with Santana or Peavy because they weren't his guys and he'd likely piss off the Mets or Padres manager by extending a pitcher who wasn't his own.

[OleMissCub]

So some folks now are trying to figure out why JoeMo wasn't on the field yesterday.... Some are saying it was probably a contract issue with ESPN, but I doubt that because Cal and Ozzie were there and they both work for TBS. Besides, it was an MLB event, it was just televised on FOX.

 

For an egomaniac like Joe to not be there is interesting. He was there the night before doing the HR Derby... perhaps he didn't want to stand on the field with Ryno??

[abuck1220]

man, you guys get fired up about the ASG.

[BigbadB]

You did make a hindsight argument.

 

No, I didn't. I don't remember where the discussion took place, but I said before the game started (days before) that it's ridiculous that neither Peavy or Santana are on the all star roster. I only used Aaron Cook as an example. I can make a long list of pitchers who I would have excused from the all star roster to put Santana and Peavy in their place.

 

Since Selig turned the game into a HFA game, to me it would be all about winning. And if my main objective is to win, Johan Santana and Jake Peavy are pitching for me. Period.

 

For the record, I had no idea how Cook pitched until someone pointed it out in this thread. I paid so little attention to the game that you could arguably say I didn't watch it at all.

[SouthSideRyan]

You did make a hindsight argument.

 

No, I didn't. I don't remember where the discussion took place, but I said before the game started (days before) that it's ridiculous that neither Peavy or Santana are on the all star roster. I only used Aaron Cook as an example. I can make a long list of pitchers who I would have excused from the all star roster to put Santana and Peavy in their place.

 

Since Selig turned the game into a HFA game, to me it would be all about winning. And if my main objective is to win, Johan Santana and Jake Peavy are pitching for me. Period.

 

For the record, I had no idea how Cook pitched until someone pointed it out in this thread. I paid so little attention to the game that you could arguably say I didn't watch it at all.

 

I only singled out Cook because it seemed crazy to complain about him being there with the way he pitched. I like the idea of the manager taking one of his guys so he can extend him should there be extra innings. As long as it's not absurd for the guy to be there.(Cook has been very good this year)

 

If you didn't pay attention to the game, then you really missed out. Even McCarver, Buck, and FOX couldn't screw this one up. This was an epic, just a great, great baseball game.

[OleMissCub]

How bad was Uggla last night??

 

According to Elias Stats...

 

"Dan Uggla became the first player to ever make three errors, strike out three times and ground into a double play in a regular season game, postseason game or All-Star Game."

 

:shock:

[BigbadB]

You did make a hindsight argument.

 

No, I didn't. I don't remember where the discussion took place, but I said before the game started (days before) that it's ridiculous that neither Peavy or Santana are on the all star roster. I only used Aaron Cook as an example. I can make a long list of pitchers who I would have excused from the all star roster to put Santana and Peavy in their place.

 

Since Selig turned the game into a HFA game, to me it would be all about winning. And if my main objective is to win, Johan Santana and Jake Peavy are pitching for me. Period.

 

For the record, I had no idea how Cook pitched until someone pointed it out in this thread. I paid so little attention to the game that you could arguably say I didn't watch it at all.

 

I only singled out Cook because it seemed crazy to complain about him being there with the way he pitched. I like the idea of the manager taking one of his guys so he can extend him should there be extra innings. As long as it's not absurd for the guy to be there.(Cook has been very good this year)

 

If you didn't pay attention to the game, then you really missed out. Even McCarver, Buck, and FOX couldn't screw this one up. This was an epic, just a great, great baseball game.

 

Fair enough.

[weis21]

How bad was Uggla last night??

 

According to Elias Stats...

 

"Dan Uggla became the first player to ever make three errors, strike out three times and ground into a double play in a regular season game, postseason game or All-Star Game."

 

:shock:

So basically, when you factor in how many high leverage situations he screwed up, he had the arguably the worst performance ever on a baseball field. At least for a positional player.

[Brian]

So some folks now are trying to figure out why JoeMo wasn't on the field yesterday.... Some are saying it was probably a contract issue with ESPN, but I doubt that because Cal and Ozzie were there and they both work for TBS. Besides, it was an MLB event, it was just televised on FOX.

 

For an egomaniac like Joe to not be there is interesting. He was there the night before doing the HR Derby... perhaps he didn't want to stand on the field with Ryno??

 

 

Who had radio rights? Was he in the booth broadcasting for ESPN Radio? I know he does the World Series games on the radio.

 

 

 

but I guess that really isn't an excuse not to be there, because he could have missed the start of the game to be in such a hyped ceremony.

[SouthSideRyan]

So some folks now are trying to figure out why JoeMo wasn't on the field yesterday.... Some are saying it was probably a contract issue with ESPN, but I doubt that because Cal and Ozzie were there and they both work for TBS. Besides, it was an MLB event, it was just televised on FOX.

 

For an egomaniac like Joe to not be there is interesting. He was there the night before doing the HR Derby... perhaps he didn't want to stand on the field with Ryno??

 

 

Who had radio rights? Was he in the booth broadcasting for ESPN Radio? I know he does the World Series games on the radio.

 

 

 

but I guess that really isn't an excuse not to be there, because he could have missed the start of the game to be in such a hyped ceremony.

 

Dave Campbel was the color guy for ESPN radio.

[Derwood]

So some folks now are trying to figure out why JoeMo wasn't on the field yesterday.... Some are saying it was probably a contract issue with ESPN, but I doubt that because Cal and Ozzie were there and they both work for TBS. Besides, it was an MLB event, it was just televised on FOX.

 

For an egomaniac like Joe to not be there is interesting. He was there the night before doing the HR Derby... perhaps he didn't want to stand on the field with Ryno??

 

the 70's Reds were poorly represented in general. No Morgan, no Bench.....

[SouthSideRyan]

So some folks now are trying to figure out why JoeMo wasn't on the field yesterday.... Some are saying it was probably a contract issue with ESPN, but I doubt that because Cal and Ozzie were there and they both work for TBS. Besides, it was an MLB event, it was just televised on FOX.

 

For an egomaniac like Joe to not be there is interesting. He was there the night before doing the HR Derby... perhaps he didn't want to stand on the field with Ryno??

 

the 70's Reds were poorly represented in general. No Morgan, no Bench.....

 

No Davey Concepcion

Edited July 16, 2008 by SouthSideRyan

[OleMissCub]

So some folks now are trying to figure out why JoeMo wasn't on the field yesterday.... Some are saying it was probably a contract issue with ESPN, but I doubt that because Cal and Ozzie were there and they both work for TBS. Besides, it was an MLB event, it was just televised on FOX.

 

For an egomaniac like Joe to not be there is interesting. He was there the night before doing the HR Derby... perhaps he didn't want to stand on the field with Ryno??

 

the 70's Reds were poorly represented in general. No Morgan, no Bench.....

 

No Davey Concepion

 

LOL, awesome.

[javy knows my name]

You're going to blame Clint Hurdle for taking Aaron Cook? He was a lock for MVP if the NL won.

Miguel Tejada

[SouthSideRyan]

You're going to blame Clint Hurdle for taking Aaron Cook? He was a lock for MVP if the NL won.

Miguel Tejada

 

I could see that. I had fun rooting for him last night, he looked really pumped to be there, and really wanted to beat those bastards from the AL.