fewest games not getting on base?

[Jehrico]

I noticed that Theriot has gotten on base every game he has gotten an at bat in by walk or hit so far this year except 10, and only three times since 21 May. Is there anyone else out there that's played in 90% of their teams games that has a lower number of games where they failed to get on base?

[haltz]

Reyes: 9

Hanley: 8

Kinsler: 7

 

Pujols has just 6 but hasn't played in 90% of the games this year. He went 43 games to start the year getting on base at least once. Randy Winn of all people has the second highest streak at 34 games. He's at 13 games without reaching base by a hit or a walk on the year.

 

That's just spot checking the game logs for the ones that seemed obvious on the TOB leaderboard. I also could've easily miscounted. Could be others, but Theriot's right up there.

[Jehrico]

Reyes: 9

Hanley: 8

Kinsler: 7

 

Pujols has just 6 but hasn't played in 90% of the games this year. He went 43 games to start the year getting on base at least once. Randy Winn of all people has the second highest streak at 34 games. He's at 13 games without reaching base by a hit or a walk on the year.

 

That's just spot checking the game logs for the ones that seemed obvious on the TOB leaderboard. I also could've easily miscounted. Could be others, but Theriot's right up there.

Wow at those three. Considering all of the flak that Reyes is getting for not performing up to his potential, it's surprising to see him in the list. Hanley and Kinsler not too much.

[wrigley23]

those stats scream loud that Theriot should lead off followed by Fukudome. That would put two of the higher OBP guys at the top of a very powerful order & maximize the offense.

[BigbadB]

those stats scream loud that Theriot should lead off followed by Fukudome. That would put two of the higher OBP guys at the top of a very powerful order & maximize the offense.

 

 

No it doesn't. The offense seemed pretty maximized to me with Soriano batting first.

 

Soriano batting 1st: .297 .344 .574 .918

36 runs scored in 46 games, 26 XBH's and 40 RBI

 

Theriot batting 1st: .341 .383 .341 .724

4 runs scored in 10 games, 0 XBH's and 3 RBI

 

This includes Soriano's woeful start and playing injured.

[17 Seconds]

those stats scream loud that Theriot should lead off followed by Fukudome. That would put two of the higher OBP guys at the top of a very powerful order & maximize the offense.

 

Here we go......

[wrigley23]

you are right here we go. If the objective the leadoff hitter is to get on base, Theriot & fukudome are getting the job done. Soriano has the mentality of an rbi hitter...not a leadoff hitter. Very low sample size on the stats. Common sense tells the story. Beyond that, I didn't know message boards were to squash conflicting opinions. David Spade...i thought you put me on ignore. The fact you respond to every one of my posts tells me you lied about that or are so anal you feel the need to respond to all of my posts.

[imb]

i missed u

[BigbadB]

If the objective the leadoff hitter is to get on base, Theriot & fukudome are getting the job done. Soriano has the mentality of an rbi hitter...not a leadoff hitter. Very low sample size on the stats. Common sense tells the story. Beyond that, I didn't know message boards were to squash conflicting opinions.

 

The objective is to score runs.

[weis21]

It's David Schwimmer, not David Spade. This is David Spade:

 

http://www.nndb.com/people/704/000022638/spade-pubshot-med.jpg

[CubbieBum]

I think most people who know my posts know that I'm one of the biggest supporters of Theriot here but Soriano should be the leadoff hitter. Our offense is better with him at the top and so is our record. I like our lineup to be when Soriano gets back

 

Sori

Theriot

Lee

Aram

Fukudome

Soto

Edmonds

DeRo

Pitcher

 

or

 

Sori

Fukudome

Lee

Aram

DeRo

Soto

Edmonds

Pitcher

Theriot

 

I like Theriot at 2 because he gets on-base very well, has speed, and most importantly doesn't get XBH's so you need him to be in front of the power hitters. Fukudome gets more XBH's so a simple single by someone will get him in more often than Theriot. However I also like the idea of batting Theriot 9th so other than the first time through he gets to bat infront of Sori giving him a better shot at getting more Rbis because when healthy he is our best homerun hitter.

[17 Seconds]

you are right here we go. If the objective the leadoff hitter is to get on base, Theriot & fukudome are getting the job done. Soriano has the mentality of an rbi hitter...not a leadoff hitter. Very low sample size on the stats. Common sense tells the story. Beyond that, I didn't know message boards were to squash conflicting opinions. David Spade...i thought you put me on ignore. The fact you respond to every one of my posts tells me you lied about that or are so anal you feel the need to respond to all of my posts.

 

I do have you on ignore, but cookies are disabled on this computer so when I come to this site without logging in I still see your posts. I'm not arguing this time, I just was pointing out how this thread was about to turn into a Soriano debate as soon as you got here. You don't even annoy me anymore, you're kind of like a cartoon character. I have literally never seen a single post from you that didn't involve Soriano leading off, and that's saying something since the threads you bring him up in have nothing whatsoever to do with him.

 

"Hey, there's a thread about Josh Hamilton...I'm going to go in that thread and subtly make a reference to how Soriano shouldn't be leading off. Then I'll go to that thread about video games and talk about it there too. It's totally relevant."

[wrigley23]

here we go again w/ the personal attacks. I am giving opinion & you come back w/ the personal crap. It appears you are the one that has the issue. The thread was about Theriot nearing the top of the league in obp & one of the more effective leadoff hitters. The guy that likes theriot hitting 9th so he can get on in front of soriano. Wow! That is proving my point exactly! If you like him hitting in front of soriano, then why wouldn't you like him hitting in front of him to start the game? Some of you act like this is high school & you choose to side w/ the majority. I have news for you. The majority from those in the know in baseball think it is a complete joke that soriano leads off. I talked to several scouts during spring training that said this. In fact, they told me Lou wanted Roberts & when the deal fell through...the only reason soriano stayed is because of his delicate ego. He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

[CubbieBum]

here we go again w/ the personal attacks. I am giving opinion & you come back w/ the personal crap. It appears you are the one that has the issue. The thread was about Theriot nearing the top of the league in obp & one of the more effective leadoff hitters. The guy that likes theriot hitting 9th so he can get on in front of soriano. Wow! That is proving my point exactly! If you like him hitting in front of soriano, then why wouldn't you like him hitting in front of him to start the game? Some of you act like this is high school & you choose to side w/ the majority. I have news for you. The majority from those in the know in baseball think it is a complete joke that soriano leads off. I talked to several scouts during spring training that said this. In fact, they told me Lou wanted Roberts & when the deal fell through...the only reason soriano stayed is because of his delicate ego. He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

 

No this thread was about Theriot being one of the most consistent hitters in baseball with no mention of leadoff anything until your post 4 or 5 in.

 

As for the 9th spot hitter would you rather have a lineup with all your high OBP people next to each other followed by a group of power hitters or have a OBP guy followed by a power hitter all the way through the lineup. I prefer the latter because then you lineup is good all the way through and all your power hitters have good chances of hitting two or three run jacks rather than solo shots.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

 

You really think that Soriano's motivation for not going on a rehab assignment in late April was the all star game? And Soriano's miscues in Pittsburgh were two weeks after he got back.

 

As to the leadoff argument, it's relatively simple. The best hitters should hit closest to the top, with some adjustment to make sure they come up with guys on(hence the lack of Lee/Ramirez/Soto to leadoff outcries). Soriano has an .879 OPS and a .287 EqA, Theriot has a .767 OPS and a .273 EqA. These are substantial differences(EqA showing that Soriano is better despite his OBP deficit), and therefore Soriano should be the one to get more at bats if at all possible. Especially in an offense that doesn't need Soriano's slugging in the middle of the order with Lee/Ramirez/Soto/Edmonds/DeRosa there, getting Soriano's production to the top is beneficial over Theriot's slaptastic OBP.

[BigSlick]

Arguing about who should lead off is akin to arguing what color sprinkles you want on your ice cream

 

Soriano coming back makes our offense scary good, whether he leads off or bats 9th. It puts 8 hitters in the lineup every day that are all, at the very least, competent hitters, which is incredible.

[NCCubFan]

here we go again w/ the personal attacks. I am giving opinion & you come back w/ the personal crap. It appears you are the one that has the issue. The thread was about Theriot nearing the top of the league in obp & one of the more effective leadoff hitters. The guy that likes theriot hitting 9th so he can get on in front of soriano. Wow! That is proving my point exactly! If you like him hitting in front of soriano, then why wouldn't you like him hitting in front of him to start the game? Some of you act like this is high school & you choose to side w/ the majority. I have news for you. The majority from those in the know in baseball think it is a complete joke that soriano leads off. I talked to several scouts during spring training that said this. In fact, they told me Lou wanted Roberts & when the deal fell through...the only reason soriano stayed is because of his delicate ego. He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

Both of you cool it. This thread WILL NOT be turned into another pissing match.

[nilodnayr]

On the other side of the token, I thought Theriot only having 6 XBHs since April was pretty impressive, but Jesus H, Renteria has only 3! To Renterias credit, he did have 11 bases in those 3 XBHs as opposed to Theriots 12 bases in his 6 XBHs and Theriot has about 40 more ABs.

[imb]

He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

 

You really think that Soriano's motivation for not going on a rehab assignment in late April was the all star game? And Soriano's miscues in Pittsburgh were two weeks after he got back.

 

As to the leadoff argument, it's relatively simple. The best hitters should hit closest to the top, with some adjustment to make sure they come up with guys on(hence the lack of Lee/Ramirez/Soto to leadoff outcries). Soriano has an .879 OPS and a .287 EqA, Theriot has a .767 OPS and a .273 EqA. These are substantial differences(EqA showing that Soriano is better despite his OBP deficit), and therefore Soriano should be the one to get more at bats if at all possible. Especially in an offense that doesn't need Soriano's slugging in the middle of the order with Lee/Ramirez/Soto/Edmonds/DeRosa there, getting Soriano's production to the top is beneficial over Theriot's slaptastic OBP.

 

There's no way he grasps any of this

[CubbieBum]

He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

 

You really think that Soriano's motivation for not going on a rehab assignment in late April was the all star game? And Soriano's miscues in Pittsburgh were two weeks after he got back.

 

As to the leadoff argument, it's relatively simple. The best hitters should hit closest to the top, with some adjustment to make sure they come up with guys on(hence the lack of Lee/Ramirez/Soto to leadoff outcries). Soriano has an .879 OPS and a .287 EqA, Theriot has a .767 OPS and a .273 EqA. These are substantial differences(EqA showing that Soriano is better despite his OBP deficit), and therefore Soriano should be the one to get more at bats if at all possible. Especially in an offense that doesn't need Soriano's slugging in the middle of the order with Lee/Ramirez/Soto/Edmonds/DeRosa there, getting Soriano's production to the top is beneficial over Theriot's slaptastic OBP.

 

There's no way he grasps any of this

 

shhh let him hope

[17 Seconds]

here we go again w/ the personal attacks. I am giving opinion & you come back w/ the personal crap. It appears you are the one that has the issue. The thread was about Theriot nearing the top of the league in obp & one of the more effective leadoff hitters. The guy that likes theriot hitting 9th so he can get on in front of soriano. Wow! That is proving my point exactly! If you like him hitting in front of soriano, then why wouldn't you like him hitting in front of him to start the game? Some of you act like this is high school & you choose to side w/ the majority. I have news for you. The majority from those in the know in baseball think it is a complete joke that soriano leads off. I talked to several scouts during spring training that said this. In fact, they told me Lou wanted Roberts & when the deal fell through...the only reason soriano stayed is because of his delicate ego. He also tried coming back so he could play in the all star game & brushed off a minor league rehab only to proceed to commit little league flyball errors in his first games back.

 

Dude, you're just COMPLETELY missing the point. This thread has NOTHING to do with Soriano, so stop talking about him. I couldn't care less about the Soriano arugment anymore. I just don't understand why you have to constantly bring him up in threads that have NOTHING to do with Soriano.

[wrigley23]

the thread is about theriot's uncanny ability to get on base which is the main job of a leadoff hiter...a direct correlation to my post as to why he should be the leadoff hitter.

[BigbadB]

the thread is about theriot's uncanny ability to get on base which is the main job of a leadoff hiter...a direct correlation to my post as to why he should be the leadoff hitter.

 

The main job of a lead off hitter is to score runs. You are way too hung up on the OBP thing, but I'm going to try this again, anyway.

 

DeRosa: 362 PA, 57 runs, .283 .377 .453, only 14 of his at bats have been higher than 5th in the order all year, so he's had bottom of the order guys hitting behind him most of the year.

 

Theriot: 392 PA, 52 runs, .320 .394 .369, most his his at bats have come at the top of the order where Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome and Soto have hit behind him, yet with more plate appearances than DeRosa and a better OBP, he's scored much less. That's because he doesn't hit for power. DeRosa has twice as many XBH's than Theriot. Thus, DeRosa makes for a better top of the order hitter than Theriot.

 

I'm not advocating DeRosa to hit 1st, just pointing out how DeRosa would actually be better in that role than Theriot. I have yet to see a box score where the winner of a game was decided by who got on base the most rather than who had the most runs.

 

Those same scouts would probably say that Curtis Granderson, Jimmy Rollins and Grady Sizemore shouldn't be leading off, either. It's not just about getting on base. It's about getting in scoring position. Because Theriot is not good at getting himself in scoring position (poor XBH power and poor stolen base percentage), he is better off hitting towards the bottom of the order.

 

Yesterday's game was a perfect example. Late in the game with runners on 1st and 2nd, the Cubs had Reed Johnson, Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot hitting with the game on the line. Hardly any power at all there. It sure would have been nice to have Soriano coming up (top of the order hitter) in that situation.

 

It's also interesting that you drag Soriano's defense into the discussion. Why such venom towards a guy that has been very productive for the Cubs thus far? Theriot's defense nearly cost the Cubs the game on Saturday, yet he gets a free pass with you?

[nilodnayr]

"Old school" ideal of a leadoff man: Ton of speed, high batting average

 

"Just read moneyball and don't really get this whole saber" ideal of a leadoff man: OBP, OBP, more OBP

 

Actual ideal leadoff man: One of your best hitters since he is going to get the most about of plate appearances. High OBP is important since you can't score from the bench, but power is also important because the chance of scoring from second and third is much greater than scoring from first (and obviously much greater with a HR).

 

You win games by scoring more runs than your opponent. You score more runs by having your best players come up to the plate as much as possible. A player needs a balance of getting on base and hitting for power in order to score the optimal amount of runs.

[David]

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure the "lineup order doesn't matter all that much" argument was made in Moneyball (but it has been about 5 years since I read it).