Harden's Health?

[David]

Wow, I'm still unbelievably excited about this move...but onto bigger issues.

 

 

Should we concerned about Harden's velocity?

 

I heard that Stone had mentioned that his velo was down in his last few starts, and I brushed it off. I was reading the Harden thread at Gateway Redbirds and they had some info showing that his velocity had progressively gotten lower his last two starts.

 

A - Should we be worried? Is there actually something to be worried about?

 

B - Does anyone know anything to calm any such concerns?

[SouthSideRyan]

Wow, I'm still unbelievably excited about this move...but onto bigger issues.

 

 

Should we concerned about Harden's velocity?

 

I heard that Stone had mentioned that his velo was down in his last few starts, and I brushed it off. I was reading the Harden thread at Gateway Redbirds and they had some info showing that his velocity had progressively gotten lower his last two starts.

 

A - Should we be worried? Is there actually something to be worried about?

 

B - Does anyone know anything to calm any such concerns?

 

Everyone keeps mentioning this crap about his velocity. It's off base. His season long velocity is 92.6 His velocity his last 2 starts is 91.9 A .7 drop in velocity means nothing. Velocity isn't a constant, a fluctuation of less than 1 mph is nothing to be concerned about.

[David]

I felt the same way, SSR, but coupled with the fact that it is Rich Harden and the fact that he has complained (supposedly, I haven't seen the quotes) about a dead arm recently, I'm a little concerned I guess.

[Coach C]

What is the common "injury" that Harden seems to be suffering? Elbow? Shoulder?

[Sarcastic]

The dead arm thing is based off of this quote from a bad outing Harden had last week on July 2nd:

 

http://www.rotowire.com/roto_to_gnews.htm?ID=262110&sport=mlb

"My feel really was awful today," Harden said. "I was fortunate to get through five innings with only two runs. There are just certain days when you feel kind of tired and your arm feels kind of dead. You just feel different on every pitch."

[Guest]

Harden did top out at 97 last time out.

[NonProfitCow]

From Brooks Baseball, I get 93.25 from May 17th, 90.5 from July 1st and 89.7 from July 7th.

 

Take it fwiw.

[45jRacing]

Rich has already pitched more innings this season than he has the last 2 combined. WHich aint much as I belive he only has 67 innings this year. Anyway he may be experiencing some dead arm as his body has to adjust to the wear. Didn't Lilly go through somthing like this earlier this season or at some point last season? While he is fragil as glass im not to worried about it.

[XZero771679666304]

To be honest, if Harden did nothing but sit on the DL until mid-September but could pitch at 100% for the next month and a half, I'd be fine with it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

To be honest, if Harden did nothing but sit on the DL until mid-September but could pitch at 100% for the next month and a half, I'd be fine with it.

 

Maybe we should just go ahead and DL him now and wait until then, no?

[haltz]

From Brooks Baseball, I get 93.25 from May 17th, 90.5 from July 1st and 89.7 from July 7th.

Weird.

 

How does BIS collect their pitch data?

[XZero771679666304]

To be honest, if Harden did nothing but sit on the DL until mid-September but could pitch at 100% for the next month and a half, I'd be fine with it.

 

Maybe we should just go ahead and DL him now and wait until then, no?

 

If someone promised me that if the Cubs did, he would be at 100% from there until the end, I seriously consider it.

 

Z/Harden at the top of a playoff rotation would make it very, very tough to beat the Cubs in October.

[XZero771679666304]

Also, I feel a little better knowing that this deal might have been done weeks ago (when Harden was at his best) if Hendry had agreed to include Gallagher then. I was a tad (more) concerned that something physically had gone wrong with him just prior to the trade.

[Jon]

Harden's last start on 7/6:

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/speed.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_07/day_06/gid_2008_07_06_oakmlb_chamlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&s_type=1&sp_type=1&h_size=700&v_size=500

 

Compare that with his best start, which came on 6/26:

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/speed.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_06/day_26/gid_2008_06_26_phimlb_oakmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

 

and 5/28:

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/speed.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_05/day_28/gid_2008_05_28_tormlb_oakmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/425848.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

[Tracer Bullet]

Harden did top out at 97 last time out.

 

Cripes Rich. If you're not going to bring the heat, stay home.

[David]

Am I the only one having a hard time really interpreting what I'm seeing in those graphs?

[Tracer Bullet]

Am I the only one having a hard time really interpreting what I'm seeing in those graphs?

 

Maybe. The top "Pitch Speed" label is just the title. The graph shows pitch speed and number of pitches. Should be pretty easy to read.

[Bote McBoteface]

I understand how to read it, I'm just not sure if it's a good sign or a bad sign.

[David]

Am I the only one having a hard time really interpreting what I'm seeing in those graphs?

 

Maybe. The top "Pitch Speed" label is just the title. The graph shows pitch speed and number of pitches. Should be pretty easy to read.

 

 

No, I can "read" it fine. I'm just not sure what the hell I'm supposed to conclude from it. Maybe I'm just too lazy to look at it really closely.

[third eye]

Any particular reason the scale for his best start is different? Doesn't look like he crossed 96 very much in that one.

[Tracer Bullet]

Maybe I'm really oversimplifying this, but it looks like they say he usually hovers around 92-94 with his heat and hits 94-96 a few times a game (one pitch above 96 in the both the May start and the July start). Looks like he had a couple pitches below 82 in his last start but that doesn't really concern me.

 

I think Jon posted those 3 to show that the concerns over his decreased velocity aren't based in fact. But again, I might be missing something.

[nolanwood]

His velocity is fine; Stone is a moron.

[Derwood]

If it makes you guys feel any better, I'd lay even odds between Harden and Sheets getting injured. People are focusing too much on the fact that the Brewers acquired a work-horse while the Cubs acquired an injury problem; pre-trade, the CUBS had an ace workhorse and the Brewers had an injury problem. It all evens out

[David]

I don't care that much about the Brewers. I didn't see their acquisition of CC as a real threat to us unless we faced them in the NLCS (which is obviously a decent possibility), and if we have a healthy, effective Harden in October, it doesn't really matter to me if the Brewers have Sheets or not, I see us as having a better chance to win (particularly with HFA, which we'll likely have).

 

I just really wanted another shut down starter for the playoffs before the Brewers were even mentioned in the CC sweepstakes. In fact, Harden was THE guy I wanted (I guess I'm a bit of a gambler)...

[Jon]

Any particular reason the scale for his best start is different? Doesn't look like he crossed 96 very much in that one.

I didn't even notice that. I suppose that makes it a little harder to compare at first glance.

 

If anything, Harden had slightly less on his fastball during the end of his best outing. Of course, he didn't throw as many last time out, but he was still sitting primarily 92-94 in his last few innings.