So, some douche is trying to tell me that Crede is better...

[David]

...than Aramis on a Bulls message board...

 

 

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=818240

 

I sort of went off on a rant and came off as a quite a bit of an ass in the last post, but whatever.... the argument is so ridiculous that it warrants it.

 

Actually, the argument is so ridiculous that I shouldn't even bother making it, but I can't help myself, sometimes. ](*,)

[17 Seconds]

I see his whole argument is baed on Aramis' bad NLDS last season. Awesome.

 

Ask him if Kaz Matsui is better than Chase Utley. I mean, Utley was brutal in the playoffs last year, right? Meanwhile, Matsui OPS'd .847!

[David]

Nice. I used that.

[NewUserName]

its not like ARam hasnt had his fair share of "big" hits as a Cub. anyway who says crede is better than ARam doesnt even deserve a response.

[Soul]

Haha, wow.

[jiml60]

...than Aramis on a Bulls message board...

 

 

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=818240

 

I sort of went off on a rant and came off as a quite a bit of an ass in the last post, but whatever.... the argument is so ridiculous that it warrants it.

 

Actually, the argument is so ridiculous that I shouldn't even bother making it, but I can't help myself, sometimes. ](*,)

 

I don't feel that you came off like an ass in any of the posts. You explained your position far better than the Crede fan did.

Also, I don't know how you can claim that Crede carried that team in the '05 playoffs. Their pitching did the heavy lifting throughout, leaving guys like Scotty Fabulous and Geoff Blum to hit game winning HRs.

 

It's amazing how Sox fans like to discredit Cub fans baseball knowledge because of the atmosphere at Wrigley, then on the other hand claim that Crede is the best 3B in the game without a debate. Laughable.

[Post Count Padder]

That's fun

[David]

ya I did sort of own him, lawl

[David]

It's seriously insane how so many Sox fans lose any semblance of rationality when the name Joe Crede comes up.

 

I wonder how many Cubs fans wouldn't take Pujols over Lee. And that's actually probably not even as lopsided as ARam vs. Crede.

[Derwood]

i give that guy credit though, i was sure he would go for the "aramis doesn't hustle" angle but he held back

[Little Slide Rooter]

Hows about he wait until Crede has a full, injury free season or 2 under his belt before making the comparison. Of course by then, it will be a moot point as Crede will be playing somewhere else by then.

[wekse]

Hows about he wait until Crede has a full, injury free season or 2 under his belt before making the comparison. Of course by then, it will be a moot point as Crede will be playing somewhere else by then.

 

 

he already has had a few injury free seasons and he hasn't put up ramirez type numbers but in one of them...and even then it wasn't as good as the numbers ramirez put up....next time, you should try looking up some stats before you make a post.

[CyHawk_Cub]

ya I did sort of own him, lawl

 

No offense meant whatsoever, but I would hope you'd own him... His "arguments" are so patently full of s@!t. Nicely done in any event, though it's pretty clear you went way over his head...

[splintersag]

...than Aramis on a Bulls message board...

 

 

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=818240

 

I sort of went off on a rant and came off as a quite a bit of an ass in the last post, but whatever.... the argument is so ridiculous that it warrants it.

 

Actually, the argument is so ridiculous that I shouldn't even bother making it, but I can't help myself, sometimes. ](*,)

 

I didn't know you were davhern on Realgm. Probably should've seen the avatars were the same, but cool.

 

Anyway that "argument" was hilarous. I usually try to stay off baseball arguments on Bulls, Bears, Blackhawks, and Illini forums because it's so hard arguing with Sox fans about some things.

 

http://home.ma.rr.com/twpics/pwned.jpg

[Bote McBoteface]

Somebody named CjayC from Chicago with a videogame avatar posted in that thread. CjayC, from Chicago, created http://www.gamefaqs.com.

 

 

It's a small....internet...after all.

[littleburr24]

Somebody named CjayC from Chicago with a videogame avatar posted in that thread. CjayC, from Chicago, created http://www.gamefaqs.com.

 

 

It's a small....internet...after all.

 

I thought that name was far too familiar!

[Warren Brusstar]

It's seriously insane how so many Sox fans lose any semblance of rationality when the name Joe Crede comes up.

 

I wonder how many Cubs fans wouldn't take Pujols over Lee. And that's actually probably not even as lopsided as ARam vs. Crede.

 

It's the equivalent of Cubs fans that preferred Mark Grace over Frank Thomas in the 90s.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

So I'm guessing that the Crede fan revisited that message board and added some remarks about Aramis' great weekend series at the Cell.

[David]

So I'm guessing that the Crede fan revisited that message board and added some remarks about Aramis' great weekend series at the Cell.

 

I haven't looked since, but some Sox fan did bump it last night and said he'd take Aramis any day of the week over Crede (and that he probably wouldn't have admitted it had the Sox not just kicked the Cubs' asses).

[laryan]

i still don't understand why you guys think its that lopsided. aram consistently puts up league-worst RF and zone ratings at third base. over the last three years crede hasn't exactly been the slouch at the plate you all make him out to be. he won a silver slugger on '06, had a very very bad injury last year which required back surgery, and has bounced back tremendously this year and is putting up another impressive year at the plate. and i'll probably get flamed for this, but he also plays in the AL while doing so in a division that has been the best during previous years. heck, in 2006, they won 90 games and finished third in their division! they would have taken a dump all over our division had they been in it. aram's ops has gone down 4 of the last 5 years, with the year it didn't go down, it went up .002

 

alright i'll get to the point. is a-ram better? its ARGUABLE. it could go either way depending on what stats you find more important its not like we are comparing pujols to mike jacobs like some of you guys make it seem.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This year is the best offensive career of Crede's career so far, his OPS is currently .849. The last 4 years, the lowest OPS Ramirez has put up is .912. The difference in defense is not nearly made up for by 65-100 points of OPS.

 

Ramirez's numbers for non-PBP fielding metrics are so low because the Cubs have struck out the most hitters in the league since the Clinton administration. They also had at least 500 IP out of fly ball heavy starters last year.

[fromthestretch]

i still don't understand why you guys think its that lopsided. aram consistently puts up league-worst RF and zone ratings at third base. over the last three years crede hasn't exactly been the slouch at the plate you all make him out to be. he won a silver slugger on '06, had a very very bad injury last year which required back surgery, and has bounced back tremendously this year and is putting up another impressive year at the plate. and i'll probably get flamed for this, but he also plays in the AL while doing so in a division that has been the best during previous years. heck, in 2006, they won 90 games and finished third in their division! they would have taken a dump all over our division had they been in it. aram's ops has gone down 4 of the last 5 years, with the year it didn't go down, it went up .002

 

alright i'll get to the point. is a-ram better? its ARGUABLE. it could go either way depending on what stats you find more important its not like we are comparing pujols to mike jacobs like some of you guys make it seem.

 

While I'd definitely give Crede the edge defensively (although he's been shaky this year), Ramirez is without a doubt the better offensive player. Regardless of which direction Ramirez's OPS has headed, it's still better than anything Crede has done...by a decent margin. Ramirez has been over .900 the past four years. This is the first year Crede's even sniffed .850. The year Crede won his Silver Slugger, he finished with a OPS+ of 107. A-Rod should have won the Silver Slugger that year. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by bringing division strength into this, but Ramirez has posted an OPS+ over 126 the past four seasons, whereas Joe Crede's never been over 107 in a full season.

[laryan]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by bringing division strength into this, but Ramirez has posted an OPS+ over 126 the past four seasons, whereas Joe Crede's never been over 107 in a full season.

 

 

when you face tougher teams, its harder to put up better stats. a fairly easy assumption i thought could be made about the point it was making

[Derwood]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by bringing division strength into this, but Ramirez has posted an OPS+ over 126 the past four seasons, whereas Joe Crede's never been over 107 in a full season.

 

 

when you face tougher teams, its harder to put up better stats. a fairly easy assumption i thought could be made about the point it was making

 

OPS+ is league/park adjusted

[XZero771679666304]

 

alright i'll get to the point. is a-ram better? its ARGUABLE. it could go either way depending on what stats you find more important its not like we are comparing pujols to mike jacobs like some of you guys make it seem.

 

 

No, it's really not arguable at all. Even in his best year to date, Crede's OPS+ was 19 points lower than ARam's. And that is by far the closest he's been. Ramirez has pretty well destroyed Crede in AVG, OBP, OPS+, SLG, RC/G, EQA, IsoP, BB/K and OPS/RISP every year. And I am leaving out stats like HR/RBI/RC to be fair to Crede, since he hasn't played that much. And even in his best full seasons, Joe wasn't nearly as good.

 

And while Crede is a better defender (and nearly all defensive metrics are severely flawed, and Aramis isn't a bad defender), it doesn't begin to make up for the chasm between the two offensively.

 

Crede has gotten off to a good start, but when you compare the offensive numbers across the board over the past five years, trying to argue that he is as good as ARam is an absolute joke.

 

And ARam is no Pujols, but Crede is closer to Jacobs than ARam, statistically speaking (in fact Mike's career OPS is higher).