Baseball History Thread

TruffleShuffle · May 31, 2009

Thought this was interesting. There are only 5 players still playing who made their debut in the 80's:

Randy Johnson
Gary Sheffield
Jamie Moyer
Omar Vizquel
Ken Griffey Jr.

i'm surprised there aren't any bad middle relievers still floating around. you know, the norm charlton, terry mulholland, jesse orosco types.

Fred Hornkohl · May 31, 2009

Damn ! I guess Julio Franco finally retired, eh?

str8carter · June 1, 2009

Exactly. The Cardinals had the worst record of any team in a non-strike year to win the World Series. It can't be debated.

Now wait a dang minute, Otis!!! I'm gonna debate it.....you may not know is the multitude of injuries we had to deal with that year and still have a comphey lead in Sept.

What you might say is that the Cards are the best team ever to win the pennant while losing like 10 of their last 12 games! :amen:

OleMissCub · June 3, 2009

I've shown some of his stuff on here before, but I have a buddy who does abstract historical baseball paintings, so I thought I'd show some of his stuff off again.

http://www.grant9smith.com/fine_prints.html

Some examples:

Christy Mathewson titled "Air of Mystery":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_airOfMystery.jpg

Satchel Paige titled "Overlooked Unfit Appearance":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_overlookedUnfit.jpg

Cy Young titled "Headache Funeral":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_headacheFuneral.jpg

Ty Cobb and Oscar Charleston titled "Fear your Inhibitions":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_fearYour.jpg

Hack Wilson titled "Pauper 191":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_pauper191.jpg

Eddie Cicotte titled "Eight Men Out":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_eightMenOut.jpg

Ty Cobb titled "No Pink Tea or Mollycoddles":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_pinkTea.jpg

Ted Williams titled "There goes the Greatest Hitter"

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_thereGoes.jpg

Babe Ruth titled "No No Nanette":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_noNo.jpg

Oscar Charleston, Rap Dixon, Josh Gibson, Jud Wilson, and Judy Johnson titled "The White Line":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_whiteLine.jpg

Ty Cobb titled "The Descent of Man":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_descentOfMan.jpg

Honus Wagner titled "The Greatest Shortstop Ever"

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_greatestShortstop.jpg

Satchel Paige titled "Turn the Key":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_turnTheKey.jpg

Ted Williams titled "648 = .406"

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_648-406.jpg

Ty Cobb titled "Your Eyes are burning holes through me"

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_yourEyes.jpg

Honus Wagner titled "Drowned by the Cost":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_drownedByCost.jpg

Joe Jackson titled "Control"

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_control.jpg

Babe Ruth titled "The White Josh Gibson":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_whiteJoshGibson.jpg

Joe Jackson titled "Sell your soul":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_sellYourSoul.jpg

Ty Cobb titled "I'm going to miss you":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_imGoingToMissYou.jpg

Rube Waddell titled "The Fat Lady is Singing":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_fatLady.jpg

Barry Bonds titled "Don't worry about me, save yourself!"

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_dontWorrySave.jpg

Ty Cobb titled "Leave them in the Ditch":

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_leaveInDitch.jpg

OleMissCub · June 7, 2009

If Sheffield ever gets into the HOF, what cap would he wear?

So far he's played for Brewers, Padres, Marlins, Dodgers, Braves, Yankees, Tigers, and Mets.

My guess would be Florida on account that he is from there and was pretty instrumental in their 1997 WS victory.

OleMissCub · June 9, 2009

In 1909, Ty Cobb led the Major Leagues in 11 offensive categories:

BA: .377

OBP: .431

SLG: .517

OPS: .947

OPS+: 194

Total Bases: 296

RBI: 107

Runs: 116

HR: 9

Stolen Bases: 76

lordy

MSG T · June 9, 2009

If Sheffield ever gets into the HOF, what cap would he wear?

So far he's played for Brewers, Padres, Marlins, Dodgers, Braves, Yankees, Tigers, and Mets.

My guess would be Florida on account that he is from there and was pretty instrumental in their 1997 WS victory.

I'd guess FLA as well. Besides the reason you gave, he also was there the longest and had 2 of his 3 best offensive seasons there as well.

Of course, with the way Sheff is, he may try to go in with a Giants or Rangers hat, just to be difficult.

MSG T · June 9, 2009

In 1909, Ty Cobb led the Major Leagues in 11 offensive categories:

BA: .377
OBP: .431
SLG: .517
OPS: .947
OPS+: 194
Total Bases: 296
RBI: 107
Runs: 116
Hits: 216
HR: 9
Stolen Bases: 76

lordy

Cobb and Jackson are the 2 guys I wonder about, as far as how would their games translate to a different era. It would be interesting to have seen their power numbers if they had started their careers, say, 25 years later. I suppose you could throw Tris Speaker and Nap Lajoie into that category as well. Playing most, or all, of their careers in the dead ball era just makes them so hard to compare to those that came later. I mean, even the approach to hitting was so much different then the 20's on.

That season from Cobb is a perfect example. A .947 OPS translates to a 194 OPS+? That shows just how low the offensive averages for those different stats were at the time. 9 HR helps him get to .517 SLG? It's not like he had a ton of extra base hits either( a total of 52 XBH). How do you compare that to a season from Ruth, Gehrig, Bonds or Williams? Cobb was a great hitter, but completely different approach than any of the later guys.

June 9, 2009

In 1909, Ty Cobb led the Major Leagues in 11 offensive categories:

BA: .377
OBP: .431
SLG: .517
OPS: .947
OPS+: 194
Total Bases: 296
RBI: 107
Runs: 116
Hits: 216
HR: 9
Stolen Bases: 76

lordy

Cobb and Jackson are the 2 guys I wonder about, as far as how would their games translate to a different era. It would be interesting to have seen their power numbers if they had started their careers, say, 25 years later. I suppose you could throw Tris Speaker and Nap Lajoie into that category as well. Playing most, or all, of their careers in the dead ball era just makes them so hard to compare to those that came later. I mean, even the approach to hitting was so much different then the 20's on.

That season from Cobb is a perfect example. A .947 OPS translates to a 194 OPS+? That shows just how low the offensive averages for those different stats were at the time. 9 HR helps him get to .517 SLG? It's not like he had a ton of extra base hits either( a total of 52 XBH). How do you compare that to a season from Ruth, Gehrig, Bonds or Williams? Cobb was a great hitter, but completely different approach than any of the later guys.

Cobb's SLG was that high due in part to his high BA. He did get a lot of doubles and triples, which also helped, but when you hit .377, if you have any sort of power, you're going to have at least a decent slugging.

His career IsoP was .146 (.512 SLG, .366 BA) and he only had three years where it was over .200. Compare that to a guy like Alfonso Soriano who has a career IsoP of .237 and, at the moment, has a higher career SLG than Cobb (.517). Soriano's BA however is only .280.

OleMissCub · June 9, 2009

OUTSTANDING photograph taken on October 8th, 1904, Red Sox vs. Yankees in Boston. Cy Young on the mound for the Sox.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5035/190420oct820boston20v20.jpg

Little Slide Rooter · June 9, 2009

Thought this was interesting. There are only 5 players still playing who made their debut in the 80's:

Randy Johnson
Gary Sheffield
Jamie Moyer
Omar Vizquel
Ken Griffey Jr.

i'm surprised there aren't any bad middle relievers still floating around. you know, the norm charlton, terry mulholland, jesse orosco types.

I think Mike Stanton was the last of that lot.

John Smoltz is still playing, although he hasnt pitched yet this season, and Tom Glavine may well find work.

OleMissCub · June 9, 2009

Cool photograph from the 1937 All-Star Game showing the players jumping for the first pitch ball thrown by FDR. In the photo you can see Foxx, Gehrig, Hubbell, Dean, and others. Baseball sure has changed alot.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5315/193720allstar20game20op.jpg

manbearcub · June 9, 2009

baseball needs more marching bands

MSG T · June 9, 2009

In 1909, Ty Cobb led the Major Leagues in 11 offensive categories:

BA: .377
OBP: .431
SLG: .517
OPS: .947
OPS+: 194
Total Bases: 296
RBI: 107
Runs: 116
Hits: 216
HR: 9
Stolen Bases: 76

lordy

Cobb and Jackson are the 2 guys I wonder about, as far as how would their games translate to a different era. It would be interesting to have seen their power numbers if they had started their careers, say, 25 years later. I suppose you could throw Tris Speaker and Nap Lajoie into that category as well. Playing most, or all, of their careers in the dead ball era just makes them so hard to compare to those that came later. I mean, even the approach to hitting was so much different then the 20's on.

That season from Cobb is a perfect example. A .947 OPS translates to a 194 OPS+? That shows just how low the offensive averages for those different stats were at the time. 9 HR helps him get to .517 SLG? It's not like he had a ton of extra base hits either( a total of 52 XBH). How do you compare that to a season from Ruth, Gehrig, Bonds or Williams? Cobb was a great hitter, but completely different approach than any of the later guys.

Cobb's SLG was that high due in part to his high BA. He did get a lot of doubles and triples, which also helped, but when you hit .377, if you have any sort of power, you're going to have at least a decent slugging.

His career IsoP was .146 (.512 SLG, .366 BA) and he only had three years where it was over .200. Compare that to a guy like Alfonso Soriano who has a career IsoP of .237 and, at the moment, has a higher career SLG than Cobb (.517). Soriano's BA however is only .280.

I understand that part, and agree he had some numbers that, in the big picture, aren't quite what they seem when you see some of his rate stats. But again, how much of that is from what guys back then tried to do at the plate. How many guys took the same kind of cuts that players now do? Was a guy going to try to mash the ball knowing the result was going to be 8-12HR a year(I'm trying to ignore any "new" Theriot jokes here)? It just seems from what I've read and watched that up until the mid-late 20's(for anyone not named Ruth or Gehrig), the approach was to put the ball into play and hopefully scoot the ball through the IF. They weren't concerned with driving the ball past the OF or over the fence. The Wee Willie Keeler idea of "hit it where they ain't", as it were.

OleMissCub · June 9, 2009

If you read his autobiography My Life in Baseball, Cobb's key philosophy was to get on base no matter what. He knew that attempting to slug the crap out of the ball would decrease the likelihood that he'd reach base. Ichiro would probably be the best modern example of what the great deadballers looked like. That's not to say that Cobb didn't have power, because he certainly was capable of hitting monster shots. There are many stories of crowds being wowed by some of his home runs.

There is of course the infamous story of Cobb, nearing the end of his career and feeling overshadowed by the Babe, telling reporters that he was going to swing for the fences during a two game series against the Browns. Sure enough, on May 5th and 6th 1925, he went 9-12 with five home runs and 25 total bases.

Coach C · June 18, 2009

Harvey Haddix's 12 and 2/3-inning, one-hit complete game, against the team (Milwaukee Braves) that had just represented the NL in the previous two World Series, is considered by many to be the best pitching performance in major league history.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/05.26.jpg

June 18, 2009

How do you pitch a 12 and 2/3 inning complete game?

CubColtPacer · June 18, 2009

How do you pitch a 12 and 2/3 inning complete game?

He gave up the winning run in the bottom of the 13th.

OleMissCub · June 18, 2009

VERY cool photos taken of an Ernie Banks AB on August 15, 1955 from several different angles. This is very cool I think.

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=7196fbfd75ac47af_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=9889b59cc7f4cbf8_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=a30f2d74853b6429_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=6dbca305cfa8c780_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=e0d3e70a6621fab7_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=c79d235548f8d271_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=fadc470ab37a2de1_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=0bd099930023a2b6_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=a2e5af07aa590f85_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=727565fedb7896f2_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=8adf5d42a87f692d_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=4f9730dc1e9d81a2_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=115dacfa6098f548_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=80f47fa7bd40b09d_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=22271aabde3ac9e9_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=8f471bcdf5aa4eb0_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=6c16cfceaf310e41_large

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=d2dfdce165d6b5b6_large

OleMissCub · June 21, 2009

The 1965 NL All-Star might have had the greatest collection of talent of any baseball team in history.

This is flat out stupid:

Willie Mays

Hank Aaron

Willie Stargell

Roberto Clemente

Dick Allen

Ron Santo

Ernie Banks

Pete Rose

Frank Robinson

Billy Williams

Pitchers:

Sandy Koufax

Bob Gibson

Juan Marichal

Don Drysdale

Cubswin11 · June 21, 2009

The 1965 NL All-Star might have had the greatest collection of talent of any baseball team in history.

This is flat out stupid:

Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Willie Stargell
Roberto Clemente
Dick Allen
Ron Santo
Ernie Banks
Pete Rose
Frank Robinson
Billy Williams

Pitchers:

Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Juan Marichal
Don Drysdale

I'd be willing to bet on that team going up against any team, from any league, from any era, in the history of baseball.

sweetpeteman · June 21, 2009

Thought this was interesting. There are only 5 players still playing who made their debut in the 80's:

Randy Johnson
Gary Sheffield
Jamie Moyer
Omar Vizquel
Ken Griffey Jr.

If when the Phillies face the Nats, Moyer goes against Shairon Martis, he will be facing somebody born after he debuted.

In fact, there are 24 players born after he debuted (6/16/1986) (and 1 born the day before) currently on active rosters:

ARI
Parra - 	05/06/87
Upton - 	08/25/87

ATL
Hanson - 	08/28/86

CIN
Bruce -		04/03/87

CWS
Poreda -  	10/01/86
Beckham -  	09/16/86

DET
Perry -	 	02/13/87
Porcello -	12/27/88

FLA
Volstad -	09/23/86
(West -		06/15/86)

LAD
Kershaw -	03/19/88

NYY
Hughes -  	06/24/86

OAK
Anderson -	02/01/88
Cahill -  	03/01/88
Mazzaro - 	09/27/86

PIT
McCutchen -	10/10/86

SD
Blanks -	09/11/86
Cabrera -	11/17/86

SEA 
Carp -  	06/30/86

SF
Sandoval - 	08/11/86

STL
Rasmus - 	08/11/86

TEX
Andrus -	08/26/88
Holland -  	10/09/86

TOR
Cecil -  	07/02/86

WAS
Martis -  	03/30/87

Derwood · June 21, 2009

some Sporcle quizzes for fans of baseball history:

http://www.sporcle.com/games/500homerunclub.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/300winpitchers.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/3000kclub.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/mlbhalloffamers.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/al_mvps.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/nl_mvps.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/mlbperfectgames.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/30_30players.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/mlbwinningmanagers.php

http://www.sporcle.com/games/mlbdraftpicks.php

June 23, 2009

How do you pitch a 12 and 2/3 inning complete game?

He gave up the winning run in the bottom of the 13th.

Then how can it be considered one of the greatest games ever pitched? ;)

OleMissCub · June 24, 2009

Since MLB still has the archaic mindset that YouTube videos promoting their product for free are somehow bad, plenty of the vids I've made have been yanked down. So I decided to upload them all to Vimeo.

My videos page is here:

http://www.vimeo.com/user1898856/videos

Included are the following videos:

Legends of Baseball (compilation I made)

Ty Cobb radio interview

Rare Deadball Footage

also, individualized videos I made using game footage of the following players: