Baseball History Thread

[TruffleShuffle]

that's great, two guys regarded as all-time greats (spahn and carlton) have 118 and 115 ERA+, but bert blyleven (118) would be watering down the accomplishments of everyone else in the hall.

[OleMissCub]

Players with .300 BA, .400 OBP, and .500 SLG:

 

Ted Williams-----------.344 batting average-- .482 OBP- ---.634 SLUG%

Babe Ruth--------------.342 batting average-- .474 OBP ----.690 SLUG%

Lou Gehrig ------------.340 batting average-- .447 OBP ----.632 SLUG%

Rogers Hornsby-------.358 batting average-- .434 OBP ----.577 SLUG%

Ty Cobb----------------.366 batting average-- .433 OBP----- .512 SLUG%

Jimmy Foxx-----------.325 batting average-- .428 OBP -----.609 SLUG%

Tris Speaker----------.345 batting average-- .428 OBP -----.500 SLUG%

Larry Walker----------.313 batting average-- .400 OBP---- .565 SLUG%

Chipper Jones(A)------.310 batting average-- .406 OBP-----.548 SLUG%

Manny Ramirez(A)----.313 batting average--.409 OBP -----.591 SLUG%

Harry Heilmann-------.342 batting average-- .410 OBP -----.520 SLUG%

Hank Greenberg-------.313 batting average-- .412 OBP----- 605 SLUG%

Lefty O’Doul-----------.349 batting average-- .413 OBP----.532 SLUG%

Lance Berkman(A)----.303 batting average-- .414 OBP ----.562 SLUG%

Mel Ott- ----------------.304 batting average-- .414 OBP----.533 SLUG%

Stan Musial-------------.331 batting average-- .417 OBP----.559 SLUG%

Edgar Martinez- ------.312 batting average-- .418 OBP----.515 SLUG%

Frank Thomas(A)------.302 batting average-- .420 OBP ----.557 SLUG%

Joe Jackson-------------.356 batting average-- .423 OBP---- .517 SLUG%

Albert Pujols(A)--------.333 batting average-- -.424 OBP ----.620 SLUG%

Todd Helton(A)--------.328 batting average-- -.428 OBP----- .574 SLUG%

[Rob]

Bobby Abreu was in that club before this year.

 

.299/.405/.498 entering play today.

[sneakypower]

Bagwell's injury-plagued last season also dropped him under the .300 threshold

 

In another episode of "what were the writers thinking?", we look at the 1999 MVP awarding:

 

Sosa hits 63 HRs, 141 RBI and McGwire hits 65 HR, 147 RBI and they finish 9th and 5th place in the voting, respectively.

 

This would all be explainable if the writers valued different skills that year, like players with a high batting average or pitching aces, but the list is just littered with other HR hitters who were half as good as these two. Matt Williams with 30 fewer HRs than Big Mac and he finishes with 154 more points? It's not as if he brought a whole lot else to the game. The same hold true for Greg Vaughn.

 

This is as glaring an example as any of writers wrongly deeming players on non-playoff teams as valueless.

[Guest]

Bagwell's injury-plagued last season also dropped him under the .300 threshold

 

In another episode of "what were the writers thinking?", we look at the 1999 MVP awarding:

 

Sosa hits 63 HRs, 141 RBI and McGwire hits 65 HR, 147 RBI and they finish 9th and 5th place in the voting, respectively.

 

This would all be explainable if the writers valued different skills that year, like players with a high batting average or pitching aces, but the list is just littered with other HR hitters who were half as good as these two. Matt Williams with 30 fewer HRs than Big Mac and he finishes with 154 more points? It's not as if he brought a whole lot else to the game. The same hold true for Greg Vaughn.

 

This is as glaring an example as any of writers wrongly deeming players on non-playoff teams as valueless.

 

Does it really matter who finishes 2nd through 9th? Nobody remembers that anyway. The writers made a good choice that year and that's all that matters.

[Electron Blue]

Bagwell's injury-plagued last season also dropped him under the .300 threshold

 

In another episode of "what were the writers thinking?", we look at the 1999 MVP awarding:

 

Sosa hits 63 HRs, 141 RBI and McGwire hits 65 HR, 147 RBI and they finish 9th and 5th place in the voting, respectively.

 

This would all be explainable if the writers valued different skills that year, like players with a high batting average or pitching aces, but the list is just littered with other HR hitters who were half as good as these two. Matt Williams with 30 fewer HRs than Big Mac and he finishes with 154 more points? It's not as if he brought a whole lot else to the game. The same hold true for Greg Vaughn.

 

This is as glaring an example as any of writers wrongly deeming players on non-playoff teams as valueless.

 

Does it really matter who finishes 2nd through 9th? Nobody remembers that anyway. The writers made a good choice that year and that's all that matters.

 

Bad voting is bad voting. Granted, it's always good when they ultimately choose the "right" winner. Blind squirrel finding acorn?

[OleMissCub]

Does it really matter who finishes 2nd through 9th? Nobody remembers that anyway.

 

It matters on down the road for HOF voting purposes sometimes. For example, when advocating for Santo, most folks will point out that during the 1960's, he was top 10 in MVP voting four times. The only other players to do this during the decade were Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Pete Rose, Yaz, Brooks Robinson, & Harmon Killebrew. All of those are pretty obvious HOFers (except Rose of course).

[OleMissCub]

Christy Mathewson, the first real American sports superstar, was not only one of the greatest players ever, but one of the greatest people to ever play the game.

 

In 551 games started, he was 378-188 with a

2.13 ERA

135 ERA+

1.059 WHIP

 

He put up what is still considered to be one of the greatest, if not THE greatest performance in baseball history during the 1905 World Series. Christy pitched 3 of the 5 games in the series and won all 3 of his starts, going 27 innings and allowing 0 ER. 3 World Series complete game shutouts.

 

During WWI, he enlisted in the Army and served in the same unit as Branch Rickey and Ty Cobb. His career was effectively over because of gas inhalation while in France, and he died a few years later as a result.

 

Mathewson is an important figure in the game because he was a virtuous superstar who came along when the game needed an image change. He came along at just the right time and did more to improve the reputation of the game than probably any other player in history.

 

He was one of the first pitchers to approach their skill from a scientific standpoint, methodically studying opposing batter's and the physics of pitching itself. In fact, while in the hospital after he received his wounds, he used to pitch entire games in his head, pitch for pitch.

 

As a pitcher, he threw a straight fastball with tremendous velocity, a sinker, a changeup, two different types of curveball, a pitch that was likely a slider, and he is generally given credit with introducing the fallaway, what is now known as a screwball. Basically every pitch that he could throw, he learned how to throw and used it effectively.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Mathewson_in_NY_uniform.jpg

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22532&d=1176342273http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31114&d=1194047586

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25418&d=1182290914http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4015/mattyfollowbc2.jpg

 

Christy and Rube Waddell:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23572&d=1178394665

 

Matty and Walter Johnson:

 

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6660/mattytrainqw0.jpg

 

Mathewson with Ty Cobb during WWI:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/cobbmatty.jpg

 

This is a haunting piece of artwork by Grant Smith about Mathewson's gas injury titled "Maybe I'll Never Die":

 

http://www.grant9smith.com/images/big_maybeNeverDie.jpg

[Guest]

Does it really matter who finishes 2nd through 9th? Nobody remembers that anyway.

 

It matters on down the road for HOF voting purposes sometimes. For example, when advocating for Santo, most folks will point out that during the 1960's, he was top 10 in MVP voting four times. The only other players to do this during the decade were Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Pete Rose, Yaz, Brooks Robinson, & Harmon Killebrew. All of those are pretty obvious HOFers (except Rose of course).

 

Well both McGwire and Sosa would get credit for top-10 MVP finishes then. Crisis averted.

 

EDIT: And if finishing 9th vs. 3rd and not having enough top-5 or top-3 finishes is what keeps a guy out of the Hall, well, I guess he should have done a little bit more in the rest of his career. (Note: This isn't referring to Santo in any way, just to baseball in general. Santo certainly should be in there.)

Edited August 17, 2008 by soccer10k

[Guest]

Does it really matter who finishes 2nd through 9th? Nobody remembers that anyway. The writers made a good choice that year and that's all that matters.

 

Bad voting is bad voting. Granted, it's always good when they ultimately choose the "right" winner. Blind squirrel finding acorn?

 

This isn't college football or college basketball voting. All that matters in MVP voting is who finishes first.

[Electron Blue]

Does it really matter who finishes 2nd through 9th? Nobody remembers that anyway. The writers made a good choice that year and that's all that matters.

 

Bad voting is bad voting. Granted, it's always good when they ultimately choose the "right" winner. Blind squirrel finding acorn?

 

This isn't college football or college basketball voting. All that matters in MVP voting is who finishes first.

 

I'm not disputing that it doesn't "matter." All I'm saying is that when one is making the case the BBWA's voting record is not very good, that year is a prime example. The bad voting doesn't "matter" in the end, since they picked a good MVP, but to ignore the results as a whole entity would do a disservice to criticizing the voting record.

[sneakypower]

in the grand scheme of things none of it really matters to me, even who wins

 

i was really just making a point of the writers erroneous judgments in considering those players less valuable because the team they played on was crappy

 

why is that hard to understand?

[Electron Blue]

in the grand scheme of things none of it really matters to me, even who wins

 

i was really just making a point of the writers erroneous judgments in considering those players less valuable because the team they played on was crappy

 

why is that hard to understand?

 

i don't think anyone is failing to understand your main point. The last couple posts on the subject have been on a tangent of your point: the importance of runner-up results.

 

From me at least, you'll get no argument about the silliness of discounting last place players.

[OleMissCub]

I always thought the opening narration of Ken Burns' Baseball series was particularly well written.

 

It is played everywhere, in parks and playgrounds, prison yards, in back alleys and farmers fields, by small boys and old men, raw amateurs and millionaire professionals. It is a leisurely game that demands blinding speed; the only game in which the defense has the ball. It follows the seasons, beginning each year with the fond expectancy of springtime and ending with the hard facts of autumn.

 

American's have played baseball for more than 200 years; while they conquered a continent, warred with each other and with enemies abroad, struggled over labor and civil rights, and with the meaning of freedom.

 

At its heart lie mythic contradictions: a pastoral game born in crowded cities, an exhilarating democratic sport that tolerates cheating, and has excluded as many as it has included. A profoundly conservative game that often manages to be years ahead of its time. It is an American Odyssey that links sons and daughters to fathers and grandfathers, and it reflects a host of age old American tensions; between workers and owners, scandal and reform, the individual and the collective.

 

It is a haunted game in which every player is measured with the ghosts of those who have gone before. Most of all it is about time and timelessness, speed and grace, failure and loss, imperishable hope, and coming home.

 

The game's greatest figures have come from everywhere: coal mines and college campuses, city slums and country crossroads. A brawling Irish immigrant's son [John McGraw] who for more than half a century preached a rough and scrambling brand of baseball in which anything went so as long victory was achieved; and his favorite player, a college educated righthander [Christy Mathewson] so uniformly virtuous that millions of schoolboys worshiped him as The Christian Gentleman.

 

A mill hand who could neither read nor write [Joe Jackson] who might have been one of the games greatest heroes if temptation had not proved too great. A flamboyant federal judge [Judge Landis] who at first saved baseball from a scandal that threatened to destroy it, but later became an implacable enemy of reform.

 

A miners son [Mickey Mantle] from Commerce, Oklahoma, who made himself the game's most powerful switch hitter despite 17 seasons of ceaseless pain. A tight-fisted Methodist [branch Rickey], 'a cross', one sportswriter said, 'between a statistician and an evangelist', who profoundly changed the game twice. And there were those whose true greatness was never fully measured because of the stubborn prejudice that permeated the nation and its favorite game.

 

Two of baseball's best began life in rural Georgia: A swift and savage competitor [Ty Cobb] who may have been the greatest player of all time, but whose uncontrollable rage in the end made him more enemies than friends, and another no less fierce competitor [Jackie Robinson] who, because he managed to hold his temper, made professional baseball a truly national pastime more than a century after it was born.

 

And then there was the Baltimore saloon keeper's turbulent son [babe Ruth], who became the best known and best loved athlete in American history.

[ConstableRabbit]

I always thought the opening narration of Ken Burns' Baseball series was particularly well written.

 

[snip]

That is beautiful.

[erik316wttn]

I always thought the opening narration of Ken Burns' Baseball series was particularly well written.

 

It is played everywhere, in parks and playgrounds, prison yards, in back alleys and farmers fields, by small boys and old men, raw amateurs and millionaire professionals. It is a leisurely game that demands blinding speed; the only game in which the defense has the ball. It follows the seasons, beginning each year with the fond expectancy of springtime and ending with the hard facts of autumn.

 

American's have played baseball for more than 200 years; while they conquered a continent, warred with each other and with enemies abroad, struggled over labor and civil rights, and with the meaning of freedom.

 

At its heart lie mythic contradictions: a pastoral game born in crowded cities, an exhilarating democratic sport that tolerates cheating, and has excluded as many as it has included. A profoundly conservative game that often manages to be years ahead of its time. It is an American Odyssey that links sons and daughters to fathers and grandfathers, and it reflects a host of age old American tensions; between workers and owners, scandal and reform, the individual and the collective.

 

It is a haunted game in which every player is measured with the ghosts of those who have gone before. Most of all it is about time and timelessness, speed and grace, failure and loss, imperishable hope, and coming home.

 

The game's greatest figures have come from everywhere: coal mines and college campuses, city slums and country crossroads. A brawling Irish immigrant's son [John McGraw] who for more than half a century preached a rough and scrambling brand of baseball in which anything went so as long victory was achieved; and his favorite player, a college educated righthander [Christy Mathewson] so uniformly virtuous that millions of schoolboys worshiped him as The Christian Gentleman.

 

A mill hand who could neither read nor write [Joe Jackson] who might have been one of the games greatest heroes if temptation had not proved too great. A flamboyant federal judge [Judge Landis] who at first saved baseball from a scandal that threatened to destroy it, but later became an implacable enemy of reform.

 

A miners son [Mickey Mantle] from Commerce, Oklahoma, who made himself the game's most powerful switch hitter despite 17 seasons of ceaseless pain. A tight-fisted Methodist [branch Rickey], 'a cross', one sportswriter said, 'between a statistician and an evangelist', who profoundly changed the game twice. And there were those whose true greatness was never fully measured because of the stubborn prejudice that permeated the nation and its favorite game.

 

Two of baseball's best began life in rural Georgia: A swift and savage competitor [Ty Cobb] who may have been the greatest player of all time, but whose uncontrollable rage in the end made him more enemies than friends, and another no less fierce competitor [Jackie Robinson] who, because he managed to hold his temper, made professional baseball a truly national pastime more than a century after it was born.

 

And then there was the Baltimore saloon keeper's turbulent son [babe Ruth], who became the best known and best loved athlete in American history.

 

That is a hell of a good documentary series. I wish it would be updated, because so much has happened since 1994.

[OleMissCub]

 

That is a hell of a good documentary series. I wish it would be updated, because so much has happened since 1994.

 

It's good, but the main criticism that it usually gets, and that I think is totally valid, is that it is (surprise, surprise) east coast centric. He spends an enormous amount of time on the Yankees, Giants, Dodgers, and Red Sox, and very rarely goes into any detail on anyone who played elsewhere.

 

For example, in a 10+ hour documentary about the history of baseball, Rogers Hornsby gets a total of two minutes and thirty seconds. Ernie Banks and Frank Robinson get less than a minute. There isn't a single mention about the 1969 Cubs, yet there is over 10 minutes about the Miracle Mets.

 

Furthermore, the diversity of his guests was lacking. They were nearly all New England elites like Burns (George Plimpton, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Daniel Okrent, Robert Jay Gould, and a few others). However, he did have George Will in several segments, which was great.

[OleMissCub]

I think it is time for some more random crazy Ruth photos:

 

Lou & Babe doing....something:

 

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3781/loubabefj0.jpg

 

Babe warming up (as a pitcher):

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43541&d=1212114314

 

Babe with wife Claire:

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43111&stc=1&d=1211577542

 

Babe with fans from the colored section at Yankee Stadium (which was in right field).

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41249&stc=1&d=1209619748

 

....OK

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37426&stc=1&d=1205269852

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/1998/yankees/galleries/images/5ruth.jpg

[OleMissCub]

When former Boston player and then Boston sportswriter Tim Murnane died unexpectedly in 1917, there was a game played for the benefit of his family with tons of MLB superstars from each league. It was basically the first All-Star game. This is the American League team (minus Ruth):

 

L to R: Hughie Jennings, Walter Johnson, Stuffy McInnis, Steve O'Neill, Joe Jackson, Ray Chapman, Ty Cobb, Buck Weaver, Willie O'Connor (Mascot).

Kneeling: L-R: Howard Ehmke, Rabbit Maranville, Connie Mack (Mgr., standing in civilian suit), Wally Schang, Tris Speaker, Urban Shocker, Tom Faftery (in civilian suit).

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26369&d=1184622818

 

A couple of things to note:

 

- Ray Chapman, sitting between Cobb and Jackson, was the only man ever killed during an MLB game. It occurred when he was hit in the head by a Carl Mays fastball.

 

- At the event Babe Ruth won a fungo-hitting contest at 402 feet (Walter Johnson was 3rd at 360 feet), and Joe Jackson took the throwing prize with a toss of 396 feet, defeating Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Babe Ruth.

 

- Imagine the outfield the AL team had during that game! Joe Jackson in left, Tris Speaker in center, and Ty Cobb in right. Babe Ruth was still a pitcher at that time.

[OleMissCub]

Here's a collection of fantastic shots of some of the greatest at various stages during their swing

 

Babe Ruth

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitbabe.jpg

 

Ty Cobb

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitcobb.jpg

 

Eddie Collins

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitcollins.jpg

 

Joe Jackson

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitjackson.jpg

 

Hack Wilson

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hithack.jpg

 

Hank Aaron

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hithank.jpg

 

Jimmie Foxx

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitjim.jpg

 

Joe DiMaggio

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitjoe.jpg

 

Lou Gehrig

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitlou.jpg

 

Mickey Mantle

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitmant.jpg

 

Willie Mays

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitmays.jpg

 

Napoleon Lajoie

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitnap.jpg

 

Rogers Hornsby

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitroger.jpg

 

Stan Musial

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitstan.jpg

 

Ted Williams

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitted.jpg

 

Walter Johnson

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hittrain.jpg

 

Honus Wagner

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/hitwagner.jpg

[series65cubsfan]

Excellent pictures once again OMC, how about a string of all time great pitchers mid-delivery? Thanks either way for the photos.

[OleMissCub]

Excellent pictures once again OMC, how about a string of all time great pitchers mid-delivery? Thanks either way for the photos.

 

It is a bit harder to do with pitchers from the old times because the cameras back then didn't have zooms, so it was much easier to get a shot of a batter hitting in game action than a pitcher in game action. But here are some that can give a good indication of what their deliveries looked like:

 

Grover Cleveland Alexander

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchpete.jpg

 

Walter Johnson

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchwalter1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchwalter2.jpg

 

Carl Hubbell

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/images/history/top100/1_pr_carl_hubbell39.jpg

 

Dizzy Dean

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32606&d=1196998786

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18401&d=1178349173

 

Bob Feller

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/bob_feller1.jpg

http://www.clevelandseniors.com/photos/larrydolan/bob-feller-pitching.jpg

 

Sandy Koufax

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24817&d=1180828506

 

Bob Gibson

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23768&d=1178586764

 

Christy Mathewson

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchchristy.jpg

 

Cy Young

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchcy.jpg

 

Eddie Cicotte

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitcheddie.jpg

 

Ferguson Jenkins

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchfergie.jpg

 

Lefty Gomez

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchgomez.jpg

 

Sandy Koufax

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchsandy.jpg

 

Robin Roberts

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchrobin.jpg

 

Chief Bender

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchchie.jpg

 

"Gettysburg Eddie" Plank

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchplank.jpg

 

Lefty Grove

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchgrove.jpg

 

Addie Joss

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchjoss.jpg

 

Steve Carlton

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchsteve.jpg

 

Carl Mays (probably would have been a HOFer if he hadn't killed Ray Chapman with his fastball)

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchmays.jpg

 

Ed Walsh

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchwalsh.jpg

 

Bob Lemon

 

http://www.limun.hr/UserDocsImages/limun229.jpg

 

Hal Newhouser

 

http://members.aol.com/voodookidd/Newhouser/1111_halpitch.jpg

 

Tom Seaver

 

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Examples/Example_ScapularLoading_Good_TomSeaver_007.jpg

 

Three Finger Brown

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchmord.jpg

 

Warren Spahn

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24953&d=1181179631

 

Juan Marichal

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17186&d=1178584325

 

Whitey Ford

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32626&d=1197066532

 

Don Drysdale

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23759&d=1178584021

 

Rube Waddell

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30466&d=1192493024

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30481&d=1192506127

 

 

These pictures cover over 100 years in pitching and I think it is pretty interesting to see that pitching mechanics have remained nearly the same in all that time.

[series65cubsfan]

Thank you so much. Uniform until I got to Drysdale and I can't see how he didn't throw out his shoulder. His weight is coming forward while his hand is gripping 'backwards'...maybe that's why I never made it. (hehe, like that's the only reason), but I can't see how he rotated through the pitch. The grip seems to show a 'two seamer' and I realize he had a couple of inches coming down, but still. Especially with such a small step. Any pitching people to help me w/ this? Thanks, OMC. Much obliged.

 

 

 

Edit: He could have been going backwards at the time of the photo also. Hard to tell. Either way. My favorite thread. danke schoen. Sorry about the lacking umlaut. It's too late to dig up the character key.

[erik316wttn]

 

That is a hell of a good documentary series. I wish it would be updated, because so much has happened since 1994.

 

It's good, but the main criticism that it usually gets, and that I think is totally valid, is that it is (surprise, surprise) east coast centric. He spends an enormous amount of time on the Yankees, Giants, Dodgers, and Red Sox, and very rarely goes into any detail on anyone who played elsewhere.

 

For example, in a 10+ hour documentary about the history of baseball, Rogers Hornsby gets a total of two minutes and thirty seconds. Ernie Banks and Frank Robinson get less than a minute. There isn't a single mention about the 1969 Cubs, yet there is over 10 minutes about the Miracle Mets.

 

Furthermore, the diversity of his guests was lacking. They were nearly all New England elites like Burns (George Plimpton, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Daniel Okrent, Robert Jay Gould, and a few others). However, he did have George Will in several segments, which was great.

 

Also, Mike Schmidt is not mentioned at any time during the whole series.

 

My favorite parts of the documentary series are the first two chapters. I'm fascinated with 19th century history of the game. When I visited the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown four years ago, one of my favorite exhibits was about the old National League. They had a baseball used in a championship series in 1888, I believe. They used one ball for the entire thing, and on display it was all misshapen and lopsided. I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it cracks me up to look at some of those old pictures and see guys who may have been in their late 30's to early 40's who look like they're pushing 70. Honus Wagner looks like my grandpa does now