Stone on WSCR - Pitcher at the deadline

[Post Count Padder]

I'll believe it when I see it, but a Z and CC 1-2 punch is drool worthy.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're consistently quite pessimistic, UMFan. I mean, we're all Cubs fans, so pessimism is natural. But to just outright dismiss the Cubs chances in October as you have is a bit ridiculous considering their play so far and the talent on the roster.

 

He's just being realistic. We need another starter if we want to go deep into October.

 

No, he's consistently pessimistic. I always hate when people point to the '06 Cardinals as the reason to not do anything, and I'm all for improving the team throughout the year whenever possible. But to go into this tunnel vision and say we need a stud starting pitcher or else we don't stand a chance, well it's crazy.

[Guest]

To sum what I'm trying to say:

 

With or with a second stud starting pitcher, we probably aren't going to the World Series. Nobody is ever a favorite to get through two short series.

 

Let's just enjoy the regular season and not try to define this team's legacy by 5 or 12 or 19 games in October :)

 

Do you have any extra information you would like to share with us? :wink:

[Guest]

If we do fail this season or in the playoffs it will be because of our rotation..We need like a Webb - Haren combo..Jimbo needs to go get a Sabathia or Harden..I'm not going to count on Gallagher,Marquis and Lilly..You just don't know what your going to get..We need another dominant starter to go with Z

 

Personally, I wouldn't trade much of anything for Harden. He's way too much of an injury risk.

[Guest]

That doesn't mean I don't want one. I definitely do. Seeing this team go into a playoff series with this offense and two shutdown starters would be nothing short of beautiful.

 

It would be 2003 but with a better offense.

 

And defense.

[RedFlash]

That doesn't mean I don't want one. I definitely do. Seeing this team go into a playoff series with this offense and two shutdown starters would be nothing short of beautiful.

 

It would be 2003 but with a better offense.

 

And defense.

 

And contrary to popular belief.......and manager.

[Guest]

That doesn't mean I don't want one. I definitely do. Seeing this team go into a playoff series with this offense and two shutdown starters would be nothing short of beautiful.

 

It would be 2003 but with a better offense.

 

And defense.

 

And contrary to popular belief.......and manager.

 

You would be hard pressed to find many people who would actually say that they would rather have Dusty managing this team instead of Lou. There are people may be unhappy with some of Lou's decisions and managing philosophies, but they're not so unhappy that they would prefer Dusty.

[Backtobanks]

Remember, if you don't extend Sabathia you get two high draft picks to replace Hill and Pie

 

I read somewhere that the draft is pretty thin and probably will result in more trades instead of taking draft picks.

[Backtobanks]

I agree with you. I've been a fan for 54 years and I would love to see the Cubs win it all, but suggestions of giving up Pie and Hill for possibly a 2-month rental with no guarantee of winning the WS seems outrageous.

 

Presumably we'd get at the very least a strong indication of signability before making the deal.

 

I don't think that will happen with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, and Rangers willing to outbid each other.

[inari]

I agree with you. I've been a fan for 54 years and I would love to see the Cubs win it all, but suggestions of giving up Pie and Hill for possibly a 2-month rental with no guarantee of winning the WS seems outrageous.

 

Presumably we'd get at the very least a strong indication of signability before making the deal.

 

I don't think that will happen with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, and Rangers willing to outbid each other.

 

We're one of the big spending teams too.

[Jehrico]

Everyone assumes Stone's talking about CC...what other options could be out there? Seattle has to be reeling on the Bedard trade, any chance they might be willing to deal, and what would they need? Greinke has been mentioned. What other pitchers could be had later this summer?

[JC]

Something familiar about this: the Cubs looking to possibly acquire a stud pitcher from the Indians for a strong second half stretch run. Quick! Someone find a Joe Carter and Mel Hall in the system! (Apologies to Hasse, Frazier and Schultze--the other less notable members of that trade.)

[Post Count Padder]

Everyone assumes Stone's talking about CC...what other options could be out there? Seattle has to be reeling on the Bedard trade, any chance they might be willing to deal, and what would they need? Greinke has been mentioned. What other pitchers could be had later this summer?

Just throwing out names I've heard thrown around:

 

Bronson Arroyo

Joe Blanton

Rich Harden

Paul Byrd

Brad Penny

AJ Burnett

Aaron Cook

Matt Cain

Noah Lowry

Jeff Suppan

 

There are probably more and these could probably be false rumors. Who knows.

[Jehrico]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

[inari]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

 

The issue with Tim Redding is that he's an absolutely terrible pitcher. As in, worse than Jason Marquis.

[Post Count Padder]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

 

The issue with Tim Redding is that he's an absolutely terrible pitcher. As in, worse than Jason Marquis.

Yeah, Redding's pretty bad save for this season and one year with the 'Stros.

[Jehrico]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

 

The issue with Tim Redding is that he's an absolutely terrible pitcher. As in, worse than Jason Marquis.

Based on what? There's a difference between not being a healthy pitcher (like Mark Prior) and being a bad pitcher (like Marquis). Redding is not a terrible pitcher at all. Quite the opposite, he just hasn't been healthy. In 2003, his only relatively healthy season, he had an ERA+ of 119. He pitched in pain until he was shut down in 2004. He got in a whole 30 innings in 2005 before being set back and shut down again. He didn't pitch in 2006. Since coming back in the second half of '07, he's put together 27 straight starts with a combined ERA+ of around 115. My main concern with him is he's averaging just under 6 innings pitched an outing, but that should be expected given how little he pitched from the break in '04 to the break in '07. If you think Redding sucks, then you must think Prior sucks given his 2006 performance. You can't judge a pitcher as good or bad based on injury plagued seasons.

[Jehrico]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

 

The issue with Tim Redding is that he's an absolutely terrible pitcher. As in, worse than Jason Marquis.

Yeah, Redding's pretty bad save for this season and one year with the 'Stros.

What about last year?

[inari]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

 

The issue with Tim Redding is that he's an absolutely terrible pitcher. As in, worse than Jason Marquis.

Based on what? There's a difference between not being a healthy pitcher (like Mark Prior) and being a bad pitcher (like Marquis). Redding is not a terrible pitcher at all. Quite the opposite, he just hasn't been healthy. In 2003, his only relatively healthy season, he had an ERA+ of 119. He pitched in pain until he was shut down in 2004. He got in a whole 30 innings in 2005 before being set back and shut down again. He didn't pitch in 2006. Since coming back in the second half of '07, he's put together 27 straight starts with a combined ERA+ of around 115. My main concern with him is he's averaging just under 6 innings pitched an outing, but that should be expected given how little he pitched from the break in '04 to the break in '07. If you think Redding sucks, then you must think Prior sucks given his 2006 performance. You can't judge a pitcher as good or bad based on injury plagued seasons.

 

If you want to assume that the only full season he's had is the only one that's actually indicative of his abilities, more power to you. Everything that he's done in his professional baseball career at any level suggest that he's pretty bad. I hope Jim Hendry won't use your line of thinking.

 

His BABIP is also pretty low (.246).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Tim Redding can be good if he's healthy, but he's rarely healthy and can be pretty bad when he is. no thanks

[daske17]

Just throwing out names I've heard thrown around:

 

Bronson Arroyo

Joe Blanton

Rich Harden

Paul Byrd

Brad Penny

AJ Burnett

Aaron Cook

Matt Cain

Noah Lowry

Jeff Suppan

 

There are probably more and these could probably be false rumors. Who knows.

 

The problem with most of that last is that they're either:

 

A. a risk for injury (Burnett, Harden)

B. not a certifiable number 2

 

There are no names out there that I would think would be worth trading Pie/Hill or any of the other Cubs names mentioned.

 

How about Mussina? If the Yankees continue to tank, I'd think he would be available as a half-season rental. Maybe the shift to the NL would benefit him.

[Jehrico]

What about Tim Redding? He's quietly having a solid year (3.71 ERA, 68IP so far, roughly 1.25 WHIP) for the Nats who aren't even close to doing anything this year. There's obviously the injury concerns, but he's in good form and shouldn't cost too much. I'd take another 10-15 starts from him and leverage the farm for the rest before throwing Marquis out there for another 22 or so starts.

 

The issue with Tim Redding is that he's an absolutely terrible pitcher. As in, worse than Jason Marquis.

Based on what? There's a difference between not being a healthy pitcher (like Mark Prior) and being a bad pitcher (like Marquis). Redding is not a terrible pitcher at all. Quite the opposite, he just hasn't been healthy. In 2003, his only relatively healthy season, he had an ERA+ of 119. He pitched in pain until he was shut down in 2004. He got in a whole 30 innings in 2005 before being set back and shut down again. He didn't pitch in 2006. Since coming back in the second half of '07, he's put together 27 straight starts with a combined ERA+ of around 115. My main concern with him is he's averaging just under 6 innings pitched an outing, but that should be expected given how little he pitched from the break in '04 to the break in '07. If you think Redding sucks, then you must think Prior sucks given his 2006 performance. You can't judge a pitcher as good or bad based on injury plagued seasons.

 

If you want to assume that the only full season he's had is the only one that's actually indicative of his abilities, more power to you. Everything that he's done in his professional baseball career at any level suggest that he's pretty bad. I hope Jim Hendry won't use your line of thinking.

If you want to assume that the whole 130 innings he had while hurt over 2004, 2005, and 2006 are more indiciative than the 386 innings before and after those injury-riddled periods, then more power to you. Everything that he's done in his professional baseball career at any level does not even begin to suggest he's pretty bad. I hope Jim Hendry does more homework and analytical thinking than you obviously have.

[jersey cubs fan]

Just throwing out names I've heard thrown around:

 

Bronson Arroyo

Joe Blanton

Rich Harden

Paul Byrd

Brad Penny

AJ Burnett

Aaron Cook

Matt Cain

Noah Lowry

Jeff Suppan

 

There are probably more and these could probably be false rumors. Who knows.

 

The problem with most of that last is that they're either:

 

A. a risk for injury (Burnett, Harden)

B. not a certifiable number 2

 

There are no names out there that I would think would be worth trading Pie/Hill or any of the other Cubs names mentioned.

 

How about Mussina? If the Yankees continue to tank, I'd think he would be available as a half-season rental. Maybe the shift to the NL would benefit him.

 

Why do the Cubs need another 5th starter? He's 39 and has had 1 decent year in the last 5. He's a 5 inning starter who is very hittable and gives up the long ball.

[Jehrico]

Just throwing out names I've heard thrown around:

 

Bronson Arroyo

Joe Blanton

Rich Harden

Paul Byrd

Brad Penny

AJ Burnett

Aaron Cook

Matt Cain

Noah Lowry

Jeff Suppan

 

There are probably more and these could probably be false rumors. Who knows.

 

The problem with most of that last is that they're either:

 

A. a risk for injury (Burnett, Harden)

B. not a certifiable number 2

 

There are no names out there that I would think would be worth trading Pie/Hill or any of the other Cubs names mentioned.

 

How about Mussina? If the Yankees continue to tank, I'd think he would be available as a half-season rental. Maybe the shift to the NL would benefit him.

 

Why do the Cubs need another 5th starter? He's 39 and has had 1 decent year in the last 5. He's a 5 inning starter who is very hittable and gives up the long ball.

He's been on championship teams and he knows how to win.

 

If the Reds somehow put together a wildcard run, I could see Dusty campaigning for Jocketty to get him.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Jehrico

[NCCubFan]

Pass on Mussina. The last thing the Cubs need is to take a chance on a once-good pitcher who is over the hill. They've done too much of that over the years; not this year.