Soriano would make a great D/H

[Jehrico]

can't believe i haven't thought of this until now...move soriano to the mound. everyone admits he has a great arm. if he's pitching, neither his inconsistent bat nor his bad defense will hurt the cubs.

If you think a pitchers defense can't hurt the team, then you weren't watching in 2005 or 2006 when our pitchers couldn't do simple things like cover first. Or, like many of the rest of us, you were watching but you chose to block those years out of your memory.

[inari]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

DeRo at 2b. Soriano was absolutely embarrassing at 2nd base. I don't think I've ever seen a worse 2b in the last 20 years.

 

He was a SS, was he really that bad there? I thought Washington moved him because they already had Vidro there but I do remember not being the best 2B in MLB.

Vidro was no longer a good 2bman at that time, and they let him have the slot over Soriano. Soriano was the worst defensive 2b while in Texas that I ever recall seeing. He was nothing less than an absolute butcher.

 

He was bad, but I disagree with you thinking that he was the worst defender in baseball at second. He was bad, but he wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. I'd be completely for moving him to second.

[Jehrico]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

DeRo at 2b. Soriano was absolutely embarrassing at 2nd base. I don't think I've ever seen a worse 2b in the last 20 years.

 

He was a SS, was he really that bad there? I thought Washington moved him because they already had Vidro there but I do remember not being the best 2B in MLB.

Vidro was no longer a good 2bman at that time, and they let him have the slot over Soriano. Soriano was the worst defensive 2b while in Texas that I ever recall seeing. He was nothing less than an absolute butcher.

 

He was bad, but I disagree with you thinking that he was the worst defender in baseball at second. He was bad, but he wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. I'd be completely for moving him to second.

Soriano's zone rating numbers during his peak years are comparable to Jeff Kent's numbers at 2nd the last five years, occasionally managing to score under .800. That's awfuly bad.

[imb]

can't believe i haven't thought of this until now...move soriano to the mound. everyone admits he has a great arm. if he's pitching, neither his inconsistent bat nor his bad defense will hurt the cubs.

 

but we'd have to trade zambrano to make room for him

[SouthSideRyan]

can't believe i haven't thought of this until now...move soriano to the mound. everyone admits he has a great arm. if he's pitching, neither his inconsistent bat nor his bad defense will hurt the cubs.

 

but we'd have to trade zambrano to make room for him

 

If we explain to him that Soriano needs to pitch to preserve his legs, he should be okay with being traded.

[abuck1220]

can't believe i haven't thought of this until now...move soriano to the mound. everyone admits he has a great arm. if he's pitching, neither his inconsistent bat nor his bad defense will hurt the cubs.

 

but we'd have to trade zambrano to make room for him

 

oops. forgot the "trade the superior player" part of the frosty worm equation.

[frostwyrm]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

[abuck1220]

my favorite part about your idea is how stunned you seem by no one else being on board. like it's an episode of the twilight zone and everyone around you has gone crazy.

[Sammy Sofa]

Some epic phailing is rocking the house right here.

[apete6]

Some epic phailing is rocking the house right here.

 

Epic Phailing sounds like a fantastic band name! :thumbsup:

[Chocolate Milk]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

Please stop this while you still have a shred of dignity left.

[CuseCubFan69]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

 

I think he would be a decent 1st baseman. If something happened to Lee and the Cubs had a pretty good LF to replace Soriano, it might be the best move to make.

[Amazing_Grace]

I wonder why Soriano was always such a bad defender. At this point, he's only been a LF for a little over 2 years and has been fighting leg injuries for a lot of that period. Still, when he was younger and had better physical tools, he should have been a lot better than he was. Looking at his hitting approach and defense, one has to wonder if Alfonso's problems are more mental than physical.

[Banedon]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

 

You realize that it's not the "Soriano to 1B" that's the problem, right? It's the "Soriano to 1B to replace Derrek Lee" that's the problem. You're moving a guy to a position that he's never played, to take over for quite possibly the teams best player...why? What's the benefit? D-Lee is a gold glover. Soriano is not. Soriano will almost CERTAINLY be worse than Derrek Lee in the field. It'd be hard to be better! And there's no guarantee that the LF replacement will be better than Soriano. There are worse LF's in the game than him. What you're suggesting is a high risk, low benefit idea. Pass.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Quoting myself since it wasn't refuted last time.

 

[Trading Lee to move Soriano to 1B] is simply insane. Let's make a list.

 

Soriano would be a crappy defensive 1B

- He got moved to the outfield because he was a poor at fielding consistently

- His inability to stick as an infielder does not bode well for his ability to be able to dig throws out of the dirt

- Soriano's chief asset in the OF is his arm, which is completely negated at 1B

 

Soriano would not be a very good offensive 1B

- His .325-.340 OBP would be last or near last for all 1B

- His .280ish EqA would be about average for 1B

 

Soriano's injury risk does not go down moving to 1B

- Moving to 1B involves him in nearly every defensive play, as opposed to very few in LF

- As someone with leg issues, having to constantly stretch at throws to pick them is worse than running down fly balls in LF

 

Trading Lee isn't happening right now

- He's the best hitter on the team, and the best fielder for his position

- He's paid reasonably for his production

- He's a fan favorite

- He has a No-Trade Clause

- An elaborate plan to get him to waive his no-trade clause to a list of preferred teams would ensure we wouldn't get good value

 

 

It's not going to happen because it does not make any sense, at all, from any perspective.

[frostwyrm]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

Please stop this while you still have a shred of dignity left.

 

Very classy. You should look after your own dignity if that's your idea of a worthwhile comment.

[Sammy Sofa]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

Please stop this while you still have a shred of dignity left.

 

Very classy. You should look after your own dignity if that's your idea of a worthwhile comment.

 

It's not nearly as classy as broadly dismissing huge segments of people due to the presidential candidate they support.

[Vanilla Ice]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

The problem with saying "Soriano is owed 115M and we should get at much value out of him as we can" is that we are paying him that money no matter what. Unless, of course, we trade him. You did not suggest that. The goal is making the team as good as possible, not to preserve the value of one contract. Trading Derrek Lee would not make this team better.

[frostwyrm]

I can't for the life of me figure out what is so weird about moving a hobbled LF to 1B, particularly when he's had plenty of experience at 2B. You'd think I'd suggested converting Kerry Wood into a shortstop. And I bring up that Soriano is owed $115M and the response is "so what?" What is so weird about wanting to preserve value in such a large contract? And what's with all these theories about it being impossible for Soriano to play an adequate 1B? Can someone explain to me why Todd Walker can move to 1B but Alfonso Soriano can't? Walker was never a defensive wizard at 2B or the OF, yet he was an acceptable defensive 1B.

Please stop this while you still have a shred of dignity left.

 

Very classy. You should look after your own dignity if that's your idea of a worthwhile comment.

 

It's not nearly as classy as broadly dismissing huge segments of people due to the presidential candidate they support.

 

I can't control what Truffle thinks. If you have a problem with his contempt for the hillibillies of the industrial midwest you'll have to take it up with him.

[abuck1220]

Quoting myself since it wasn't refuted last time.

 

[Trading Lee to move Soriano to 1B] is simply insane. Let's make a list.

 

Soriano would be a crappy defensive 1B

- He got moved to the outfield because he was a poor at fielding consistently

- His inability to stick as an infielder does not bode well for his ability to be able to dig throws out of the dirt

- Soriano's chief asset in the OF is his arm, which is completely negated at 1B

 

Soriano would not be a very good offensive 1B

- His .325-.340 OBP would be last or near last for all 1B

- His .280ish EqA would be about average for 1B

 

Soriano's injury risk does not go down moving to 1B

- Moving to 1B involves him in nearly every defensive play, as opposed to very few in LF

- As someone with leg issues, having to constantly stretch at throws to pick them is worse than running down fly balls in LF

 

Trading Lee isn't happening right now

- He's the best hitter on the team, and the best fielder for his position

- He's paid reasonably for his production

- He's a fan favorite

- He has a No-Trade Clause

- An elaborate plan to get him to waive his no-trade clause to a list of preferred teams would ensure we wouldn't get good value

 

 

It's not going to happen because it does not make any sense, at all, from any perspective.

 

yeah, but what else you got?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Quoting myself since it wasn't refuted last time.

 

[Trading Lee to move Soriano to 1B] is simply insane. Let's make a list.

 

Soriano would be a crappy defensive 1B

- He got moved to the outfield because he was a poor at fielding consistently

- His inability to stick as an infielder does not bode well for his ability to be able to dig throws out of the dirt

- Soriano's chief asset in the OF is his arm, which is completely negated at 1B

 

Soriano would not be a very good offensive 1B

- His .325-.340 OBP would be last or near last for all 1B

- His .280ish EqA would be about average for 1B

 

Soriano's injury risk does not go down moving to 1B

- Moving to 1B involves him in nearly every defensive play, as opposed to very few in LF

- As someone with leg issues, having to constantly stretch at throws to pick them is worse than running down fly balls in LF

 

Trading Lee isn't happening right now

- He's the best hitter on the team, and the best fielder for his position

- He's paid reasonably for his production

- He's a fan favorite

- He has a No-Trade Clause

- An elaborate plan to get him to waive his no-trade clause to a list of preferred teams would ensure we wouldn't get good value

 

 

It's not going to happen because it does not make any sense, at all, from any perspective.

 

And once again this goes completely ignored.

[NCCubFan]

You realize that it's not the "Soriano to 1B" that's the problem, right? It's the "Soriano to 1B to replace Derrek Lee" that's the problem.

Exactly. My objection isn't about who WOULD be playing 1B, but rather who WOULDN'T.

[CuseCubFan69]

You realize that it's not the "Soriano to 1B" that's the problem, right? It's the "Soriano to 1B to replace Derrek Lee" that's the problem.

Exactly. My objection isn't about who WOULD be playing 1B, but rather who WOULDN'T.

 

I think who's on first.

[NCCubFan]

You realize that it's not the "Soriano to 1B" that's the problem, right? It's the "Soriano to 1B to replace Derrek Lee" that's the problem.

Exactly. My objection isn't about who WOULD be playing 1B, but rather who WOULDN'T.

 

I think who's on first.

No, Hu's on first (at least he was the other day against the Cubs as a pinch runner). :D

[frostwyrm]

Quoting myself since it wasn't refuted last time.

 

[Trading Lee to move Soriano to 1B] is simply insane. Let's make a list.

 

Soriano would be a crappy defensive 1B

- He got moved to the outfield because he was a poor at fielding consistently

- His inability to stick as an infielder does not bode well for his ability to be able to dig throws out of the dirt

- Soriano's chief asset in the OF is his arm, which is completely negated at 1B

 

Soriano would not be a very good offensive 1B

- His .325-.340 OBP would be last or near last for all 1B

- His .280ish EqA would be about average for 1B

 

Soriano's injury risk does not go down moving to 1B

- Moving to 1B involves him in nearly every defensive play, as opposed to very few in LF

- As someone with leg issues, having to constantly stretch at throws to pick them is worse than running down fly balls in LF

 

Trading Lee isn't happening right now

- He's the best hitter on the team, and the best fielder for his position

- He's paid reasonably for his production

- He's a fan favorite

- He has a No-Trade Clause

- An elaborate plan to get him to waive his no-trade clause to a list of preferred teams would ensure we wouldn't get good value

 

 

It's not going to happen because it does not make any sense, at all, from any perspective.

 

Okay, I'll bite. Your thesis that Soriano would necessarily be a crappy defensive 1B is unconvincing. Two words: Todd Walker. A solidly below average defensive 2B and OF, yet he became an adequate defensive 1B. Soriano is a far better athlete than Walker ever was. And when Soriano is constantly hobbled his arm isn't nearly good enough to make him a non-crappy defensive OF - that's a fact that has been demonstrated clearly, so the hell with his arm. And his stats wouldn't be as impressive at 1B? So what? We're stuck with him, essentially married to him, and have a humongous amount of money invested in him. Best to keep him on the field as often as possible and hopefully not in a position where he can cost games with crummy defense. And persuading Lee to accept a trade needn't be an "elaborate plan." Just tell him the organization feels it's necessary to clear 1B for Soriano by the fall of 2010 at the latest, which means there is no Derrek Lee in the Cubs' longterm plans. If Lee craves longterm job security he may very well want to move to a team that will offer him an extension. Obviously there is no guarantee that he wouldn't want to finish out his current contract and go to free agency. I never said there was. I'm also not buying this idea that Soriano wouldn't be less injury-prone at 1B. Stretching at 1B is not a sudden or violent motion. You have time to prepare for and execute the movement at your own pace. I think he'd do fine. Getting him off the astroturf of the outfield and onto the dirt of the infield can only help, as would having to run less. And all these statements I see in this thread positing the inconceivability of moving Lee are statements that could be made about any really good player. Apparently if it were up to some of you people no good player would ever be traded. They'd all play out their careers for one team, like George Brett. In the real world good players actually do get traded and the universe doesn't implode when it happens. Sometimes people are even happy with what they get back in trade.