Looking Toward July: Possible Trade Targets

[UMFan83]

My biggest fear is that the trade deadline passes without the Cubs acquiring a number 2 starter.

 

Can we get to the playoffs without one? Absolutely.

 

Can we win in October without one? Possibly

 

But the bottom line is Lilly is a good number 3 on a championship team, Dempster is going to throw way too many innings by October to be considered for the number 2 spot even if he stays somewhat consistent, Hill who knows, Marshall is not going to be that guy, Gallagher is probably too inexperienced.

 

If the Cubs are playing at the same pace they are playing at now (on July 31st that would put us at 69-42), they need to go for the jugular and shore up that rotation.

 

The thing that scares me is that JH would probably think we are set with our mediocre pitching depth (based on our awesome record) and stay put.

[bukie]

I would think the Giants would entertain an offer of Soto, Cedeno, Marshall and Hill for Lincecum.

[SouthSideRyan]

I would think the Giants would entertain an offer of Soto, Cedeno, Marshall and Hill for Lincecum.

 

I would think that would be a terrible trade for us.

[bukie]

I would think the Giants would entertain an offer of Soto, Cedeno, Marshall and Hill for Lincecum.

 

I would think that would be a terrible trade for us.

 

Indeed it would. Twas the point, really.

[nilodnayr]

The fact that people here actually believe Lincecum is available is comical.

 

You know, except for the fact that he was nearly dealt to Toronto 6 months ago. It ended up that the Giants plugged the hole Rios was going to fill by signing Rowand. They only have 7 more position holes to plug!!!

 

http://www.boxxet.com/Toronto_Blue_Jays/Giants_And_Jays_Talk_Rios_For_Lincecum.1d7c4r.d

 

http://ballhype.com/story/rios_for_cain_or_lincecum/

 

http://majorleagueramblings.blogspot.com/2007/12/toronto-and-san-francisco-talking.html

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071212&content_id=2324417&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

 

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/wm/archives/2007/12/payroll_concern.html

 

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071203.wsptblair3/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

 

I could keep on going but my Ctrl button might break.

[SouthSideRyan]

Your links are comical to me.

[Amazing_Grace]

Milton Bradley is the most obvious candidate if they look to add a CF. He can probably be gotten for the right price. We know Texas was interested in Murton. Unlike most switch hitters, Bradley doesn't have very pronounced splits. He hits for more power from the right side but better OBP from the left. His OPS comes up about even from both sides. He's only 30 and would fit nicely in the 5 or 6 spot in the batting order. The only issue is that he hasn't seen significant action in CF since 2005. He's been a RF and DH the past 2 years. It's an open question whether Bradley would be a better option defensively in CF than moving Fukudome (assuming that's even an option). I can't see Bradley being much worse than Edmonds/Johnson, and if Hendry/Lou were worried about defense, they wouldn't have been using Johnson as the everyday CF with Pie on the bench. Bradley's on a 1 year deal and Texas will get nothing if he leaves as a FA, so I'd offer a package of Pie or Murton, Hoffpauir, and a low level pitching prospect, maybe Mateo. If they want a pitcher, I'd consider giving up Gallagher or Marshall but not Hill, and Texas would have to accept a lesser position prospect than Pie or Murton.

 

Ryan Church might be available again depending on what happens in NY, but I doubt they're out of the race so probably would be looking to get someone back that could contribute quickly. Just about everyone else that you might want to have (Rowand, McLouth, Beltran, Hamilton, Ichiro, etc.) is either untouchable or nearly so. Vernon Wells could probably be had but his contract is about as awful as they come.

 

If Kosuke is willing to move to CF, it opens things up quite a bit, but purely looking for a guy that can play CF will be rough going, IMHO.

 

As far as the pitching situation go, I'd like to see Marquis dealt to another contender, preferably in the AL, for a prospect or 2 to recharge our minor league system. I'd honestly rather Hill be able to come back and be a #2 type starter. I just don't see much out there that's going to be much better than just having Lilly #2. Burnett would be the best choice if he's still healthy in July. Of the two guys in Texas, I like Padilla better. He's younger and has more upside. Millwood is very much in decline and I just don't see him regaining form. Getting Bradley and Padilla in the same deal would kill two birds with one stone.

 

If I were Hendry, my gameplan would be to trade 1 of Pie/Murton and 1 of Gallagher/Hill/Marshall plus no more than 3 of Veal/Samardzija/Colvin/Cedeno/Patterson and whatever other trade filler might be wanted (Hoffpauir, Wuertz, Cotts, Piggy, Fontenot). I'd try to hang onto Ceda, and in general as much pitching as I could.

[shnsajax]

The fact that people here actually believe Lincecum is available is comical.

 

Agree, especially for what is being proposed.

 

There is probably a better chance of the Cubs trading Soto before the Giants trade Lincecum. They are not a small market team, they don't need to trade one of the 3 best young pitchers in the game for extra parts. It makes zero sense.

[nilodnayr]

The fact that people here actually believe Lincecum is available is comical.

 

Agree, especially for what is being proposed.

 

There is probably a better chance of the Cubs trading Soto before the Giants trade Lincecum. They are not a small market team, they don't need to trade one of the 3 best young pitchers in the game for extra parts. It makes zero sense.

 

Except when you realize who their GM is.

[VanceJergins]

If we can't get a good #2 pitcher, I would love to go after Bradley. I would rather add to the rotation, but I think adding Bradley would make the offense good enough to make up for our not-quite-championship-caliber rotation.

 

I know it wouldn't be constructed this but i would love this lineup: Fukudome, Bradley, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, DeRosa, Theriot

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Matt Cain

 

To elaborate on why this would happen some more, the Giants have a pretty heavy lack of talent at the major league level, and they aren't about to home grow an offense like the Brewers any time soon. They might be persuaded to trade a young pitcher like Cain if they can get some quantity in return. They'd still have Lincecum to head the rotation and Sanchez as another young starter, plus probably a decent arm from us. Position player wise they are locked into Rowand's contract, and Travis Denker is a good looking hitter at 2B, so EPatt probably isn't a good match. However, players like Murton, Pie(undeniable talent, one would probably hit well enough for a corner OF, tremendous OF defense in a spacious home outfield), and Cedeno match up well, in addition to pitching that's always needed, like Gallagher, Hill, or Marshall. Personally, I think Marshall/Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton is a pretty strong package for Cain, although I don't know how well it would stack up to other potential offers.

[Jehrico]

The fact that people here actually believe Lincecum is available is comical.

 

Agree, especially for what is being proposed.

Maybe not for what has been proposed, but the Giants already put word around the league in the offseason that they would entertain trading him for a bat. The fact that some people around here think it's comical other people think he could be traded just says that you're not paying attention in the off season.

[Jehrico]

If the Tigers continue to stink and Verlander doesn't come out of his funk, do we see what Detroit would want for him? Would you consider taking Dontrelle if he comes back from his rehab assignment and pitches average from then until the deadline?

[Moises a loo]

Matt Cain

 

To elaborate on why this would happen some more, the Giants have a pretty heavy lack of talent at the major league level, and they aren't about to home grow an offense like the Brewers any time soon. They might be persuaded to trade a young pitcher like Cain if they can get some quantity in return. They'd still have Lincecum to head the rotation and Sanchez as another young starter, plus probably a decent arm from us. Position player wise they are locked into Rowand's contract, and Travis Denker is a good looking hitter at 2B, so EPatt probably isn't a good match. However, players like Murton, Pie(undeniable talent, one would probably hit well enough for a corner OF, tremendous OF defense in a spacious home outfield), and Cedeno match up well, in addition to pitching that's always needed, like Gallagher, Hill, or Marshall. Personally, I think Marshall/Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton is a pretty strong package for Cain, although I don't know how well it would stack up to other potential offers.

 

Sign me up for Cain as well. Dude is RAKING this year too (in 19 ABs). I just find it hard to believe that a package that couldn't get two years of Roberts could get 3+ years of really good starting pitching.

[Backtobanks]

If the Tigers continue to stink and Verlander doesn't come out of his funk, do we see what Detroit would want for him? Would you consider taking Dontrelle if he comes back from his rehab assignment and pitches average from then until the deadline?

 

No thanks on Dontrelle. Maybe on Verlander.

[The Voice of Reason]

The fact that people here actually believe Lincecum is available is comical.

 

Agree, especially for what is being proposed.

Maybe not for what has been proposed, but the Giants already put word around the league in the offseason that they would entertain trading him for a bat. The fact that some people around here think it's comical other people think he could be traded just says that you're not paying attention in the off season.

 

I was paying attention. Were you?

 

The Blue Jays have come to believe the only way they can truly compete in the AL East is if they are able to pitch to a high level consistently against the Red Sox and Yankees. Roy Halladay, A.J. Burnett, Shaun Marcum and Dustin McGowan give Toronto a strong front four in the rotation.

But the Blue Jays wanted more. That is why they were willing to dangle their one 2007 All-Star, right fielder Alex Rios, in a proposal for Giants starter Tim Lincecum. Toronto felt Adam Lind could be productive in Rios’ place in right and hold the spot until its top-hitting prospect, Travis Snider, became ready in the next year or two. But, while the Giants were contemplating the trade, they seemed tentative about giving up either Lincecum or Matt Cain, their two best starting pitchers.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/wm/archives/2007/12/payroll_concern.html

[davearm2]

Tentative or not, they weren't saying no.

 

Sabean fully acknowledged the Lincecum-Rios talks in the mlb.com article linked above.

[The Voice of Reason]

Tentative or not, they weren't saying no.

 

Sabean fully acknowledged the Lincecum-Rios talks in the mlb.com article linked above.

 

Never said the Giants wouldn't consider trading him but Rios was an all-star in 2007 and the Giants wouldn't bite.

 

Why would the Giants trade (as previously proposed) one of their stud pitcher whose contract they control for six years for two minor leaguers (Pie and Murton), an overpriced bum (Marquis) and a significant downgrade (Marshall)?

[Outshined_One]

Tentative or not, they weren't saying no.

 

Sabean fully acknowledged the Lincecum-Rios talks in the mlb.com article linked above.

 

They ended up saying no. I think that's something worth noting.

 

They had talks, but we're not privy to the specifics. Was it Rios for Cain straight up? Rios plus prospects? Cain plus prospects? Lincecum plus prospects? Did the Blue Jays approach the Giants, or was it vice versa? Which side pulled the plug?

 

Any team would be foolish to brush aside trade talks for a certain player because they consider the player untradeable. If the Cubs offered Lee, Ramirez, Marmol, and Zambrano for Cain and Lincecum, the Giants would be fools to pass on that package. Those two teams had trade talks, but the specifics of those talks are critical to assessing any potential availability of those two.

 

Frankly, I have my doubts that the Cubs could get either. The minor league system is really bad right now and the young players of interest are either critical to the Cubs' success (Soto, Marmol) or are struggling badly enough to significantly lower their trade value (Murton, Hill, Pie).

[C.C.]

 

Frankly, I have my doubts that the Cubs could get either. The minor league system is really bad right now and the young players of interest are either critical to the Cubs' success (Soto, Marmol) or are struggling badly enough to significantly lower their trade value (Murton, Hill, Pie).

 

Yes, this...

[Jehrico]

The fact that people here actually believe Lincecum is available is comical.

 

Agree, especially for what is being proposed.

Maybe not for what has been proposed, but the Giants already put word around the league in the offseason that they would entertain trading him for a bat. The fact that some people around here think it's comical other people think he could be traded just says that you're not paying attention in the off season.

 

I was paying attention. Were you?

 

The Blue Jays have come to believe the only way they can truly compete in the AL East is if they are able to pitch to a high level consistently against the Red Sox and Yankees. Roy Halladay, A.J. Burnett, Shaun Marcum and Dustin McGowan give Toronto a strong front four in the rotation.

But the Blue Jays wanted more. That is why they were willing to dangle their one 2007 All-Star, right fielder Alex Rios, in a proposal for Giants starter Tim Lincecum. Toronto felt Adam Lind could be productive in Rios’ place in right and hold the spot until its top-hitting prospect, Travis Snider, became ready in the next year or two. But, while the Giants were contemplating the trade, they seemed tentative about giving up either Lincecum or Matt Cain, their two best starting pitchers.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/wm/archives/2007/12/payroll_concern.html

Ummm....you just confirmed you weren't paying attention. When you are determined NOT to move someone (like Hendry with Hill a couple of years ago), tentative isn't the word to describe that. Tentative indicates doubt, as in you're struggling with the decision. You don't know. You'd be willing, but you want a little more than what is already on the table. They wouldn't be getting offers and pondering them if they hadn't already conceded that they were open to moving him in the right deal.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Jehrico

[C.C.]

The thing that scares me is that JH would probably think we are set with our mediocre pitching depth (based on our awesome record) and stay put.

 

I wouldn't worry about that. He's shown in the past that if there is a deal out there to make us better he'll do it.

[UMFan83]

The thing that scares me is that JH would probably think we are set with our mediocre pitching depth (based on our awesome record) and stay put.

 

I wouldn't worry about that. He's shown in the past that if there is a deal out there to make us better he'll do it.

 

I'm just worried that he won't identify starting pitching as a need, citing the presence of Lieber, Gallagher, Marshall, Marquis, Hart as depth. I don't think he'll recognize that our pitching staff might not compare well with other potential playoff rotations.

[shnsajax]

The thing that scares me is that JH would probably think we are set with our mediocre pitching depth (based on our awesome record) and stay put.

 

I wouldn't worry about that. He's shown in the past that if there is a deal out there to make us better he'll do it.

 

I'm just worried that he won't identify starting pitching as a need, citing the presence of Lieber, Gallagher, Marshall, Marquis, Hart as depth. I don't think he'll recognize that our pitching staff might not compare well with other potential playoff rotations.

 

I think Hill being sent down and being replaced by Gallagher and not Lieber shows their could be weakness. Seriously I am more than sure that Hendry realizes everything this board thinks he doesn't, he is no where close to the idiot people think he is. If he has the ability to make a significant trade he will do so. Even prior to the opening day he was attempting to make the team better.

[davearm2]

Tentative or not, they weren't saying no.

 

Sabean fully acknowledged the Lincecum-Rios talks in the mlb.com article linked above.

 

Never said the Giants wouldn't consider trading him but Rios was an all-star in 2007 and the Giants wouldn't bite.

 

Why would the Giants trade (as previously proposed) one of their stud pitcher whose contract they control for six years for two minor leaguers (Pie and Murton), an overpriced bum (Marquis) and a significant downgrade (Marshall)?

I don't recall suggesting that they would.

 

The point is, the poster who earlier characterized the notion that Lincecum might be available as "comical" is just flat out wrong.

 

If Lincecum was indeed untouchable, then the discussions with the Blue Jays wouldn't have lasted 60 seconds, and the media would never have gotten wind of any of this.