Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-8-2008

[Outshined_One]

Box Scores

 

Iowa won 14-2 Box Score

 

2B E. Patterson 2/5, BB, 2 RBI, 2B (4), K

LF M. Murton 2/5, R, 2 RBI, K

1B M. Hoffpauir 1/5, R, 2B (1)

3B C. McGehee 2/4, 2 R, 2 RBI, HR (4)

RF J. Kroeger 2/5, 2 R, 2 RBI, HR (2)

SP K. Hart 3.2 scoreless, 2 H, 6/0 K/BB, HBP, 2-3 GO-FO

RP C. Pignatiello 1 hitless, 1 ER, 1/2 K/BB, 1-1 GO-FO

RP N. Cotts 2.1 scoreless, 2 H, 1/1 K/BB, 5-1 GO-FO

 

Tennessee won 6-4 Box Score

 

RF M. Camp 2/5, R, RBI, 3B (1), Assist (3B)

CF T. Colvin 2/5, R, 2 K

LF J. Fox 0/4, BB, RBI

1B D. Deeds 1/4, BB, R, CS (1)

C S. Clevenger 2/5, R, 3 RBI, 2B (1), HR (1)

3B K. Reynolds 1/3, K, SB (1)

PH R. Harvey 0/1

SP J. Russell 4 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 5/5 K/BB, HR, HBP, 2-4 GO-FO

 

Daytona lost 3-2 Box Score

 

CF J. Wyatt 0/4, K

2B T. Thomas 0/4, K

DH T. Wright 1/4, R, RBI

LF R. Canzler 0/3, RBI, K

C M. Reed 1/3, K

PH Y. Carter 0/1

3B J. Lansford 1/4, K

SS D. Barney 1/3, 2 K

SP A. Harben 5 IP, 5 H, 3 ER, 2/1 K/BB, WP, 9-5 GO-FO

 

Peoria lost 7-3 Box Score

 

LF C. Andersen 1/4, 2 K, HBP

CF L. Johnson 0/2, BB

SS N. Samson 0/4, E (8, throw)

C J. Donaldson 0/3, BB, K, E (3, pickoff)

RF K. Burke 0/4, K

3B M. Smith 2/4, R, RBI, HR (3), 2 K

1B J. Rosa 2/4, R, 2B (12), K, E (6, throw)

2B J. Made 0/4, R

DH E. Lara 2/3, BB, RBI

SP A. Cabrera 3.2 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 3/1 K/BB, HR, 4-4 GO-FO

RP J. Latham 2.1 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 0, ER, 2/0 K/BB, WP, 4-1 GO-FO

RP T. Blackford 1 hitless/scoreless, 1/0 K/BB, HBP, 2-0 GO-FO

OVERALL: 2-2

Edited May 9, 2008 by Outshined_One

[Guest]

Probable Starters:

 

Iowa: RHP Kevin Hart (at AAA: 0-0, 6.00 ERA, 3 IP, 2 K/1 BB, .250 BAA)

Tenn: LHP James Russell (at AA: 0-0, 1.50 ERA, 6 IP, 5 K/0 BB, .292 BAA; overall: 1-1, 2.16 ERA, 33.1 IP, 19 K/7 BB, .262 BAA)

Daytona: RHP Adam Harben (1-4, 6.30 ERA, 20 IP, 18 K/21 BB, .292 BAA)

Peoria: RHP Alberto Cabrera (1-3, 4.97 ERA, 25.1 IP, 14 K/19 BB, .280 BAA)

[rawaction]

Some ugly K:BB ratios in A-ball today. Should I still care about Adam Harben? I kinda liked him when the Cubs got him from (was it Minnesota?). But he really sucks so far this year and was hurt last year.

[Guest]

Well, he is on the 40-man roster. But even for a guy coming off TJS, I've been disappointed at his performace especially considering he's at Daytona and not at Tennessee.

[Guest]

Strong but short outing for Kevin Hart: 3.2 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 6 K, 0 BB, 1 HBP. He threw 67 pitches.

 

EPatt having a solid game, 2/3 with a double. Iowa up 7-1 in the 5th.

[Flames24Rulz]

Nice to see Hart have a good outing. Same can't be said for Pignatiello: 1 IP, 3 hits, 1 run, 1 K/3 BB's. His ERA is over 10. What the heck has happened to him? Cotts had a good outing: 2 1/3 IP, 2 hits, 0 runs, 1 K/1 BB. The Redhead went 2/5 with two RBI's and a run scored.

[CubColtPacer]

Nice to see Hart have a good outing. Same can't be said for Pignatiello: 1 IP, 3 hits, 1 run, 1 K/3 BB's. His ERA is over 10. What the heck has happened to him? Cotts had a good outing: 2 1/3 IP, 2 hits, 0 runs, 1 K/1 BB. The Redhead went 2/5 with two RBI's and a run scored.

 

Murton has 24 hits between the majors and minors so far this year, and not a single extra base hit. That is really hard to do, especially for a guy who's hitting .356 in AAA.

[Guest]

AZ Phil checks out the extended spring training Cubs

 

Mark Pawelek pitched well again: 3 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K and has now thrown 6 consecutive scoreless innings. Yohan Gonzalez and Miguel Sierra each threw 2 scoreless innings (Sierra didn't let anyone on base and struck out 3).

[TruffleShuffle]

AZ Phil checks out the extended spring training Cubs

 

Mark Pawelek pitched well again: 3 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K and has now thrown 6 consecutive scoreless innings. Yohan Gonzalez and Miguel Sierra each threw 2 scoreless innings (Sierra didn't let anyone on base and struck out 3).

 

is this where a few people start to get their hopes up with pawelek, just like they did earlier this year with harvey?

[Guest]

So apparently Pawelek really wasn't out of shape when the Cubs said he was:

 

AZ Phil[/url]"]The Cubs selected Mark Pawelek with their #1 pick (#20 overall) in the 2005 Rule 4 (June) draft. He was the 4th HS pitcher selected in the '05 draft, but he almost certainly would have gone higher if it wasn't for the fact that he had Scott Boras as an "advisor" (unofficial agent) and that he had signed a Natioal Letter of Intent to attend Arizona State. But the Cubs were able to sign him, and he reported initially to the AZL Cubs at Fitch Park.

 

I saw Mark Pawelek in his first pro season at AZL Mesa (2005), and I can tell you he was as good as advertised (94 MPH fastball, plus-curve, plus-slider, and plus-change). Then he went to the AZ Instructional League post-2005, and the Cubs coaches apparently started tinkering with his pitch selections, delivery, arm slot, release point, etc (probably with the intention of trying to prevent an arm injury), and he gradually just lost confidence.

 

The Pawelek Family is very unusual, in that the dad fancies himself a pitching coach, and is very involved in Mark's career. His dad pitches for a top senior team, and he really knows his stuff. But he's kind of like Mike Marshall, in that he has a somewhat different approach than most do most minor league pitching coaches.

 

Mark and his older brother Dennis (who was drafted by the White Sox, but chose to play college football instead) had a special work-out regimen back home in Utah, where their dad had them throw every day, and where Mark and Dennis were taught a particular philosophy of pitch selection.

 

Unfortunately, the Cubs have only one way for everybody, and Mark was forced to conform to the Cubs Way (especially when it came to side sessions and pitch selection), and apparently it messed him up.

 

The Cubs claimed Pawelek came to Minor League Camp in 2006 "out of shape," but he wasn't overweight or anything, he was just "messed up" mentally and his mechanics were out of whack, to where his velocity was down into the mid-80's and he couldn't throw any of his "hard" pitches (fastball and slider) for strikes. And he kept hitting batters. How much of that stemmed from his work in the AZ Instructional League after the 2005 season, I don't know, but his confidence was clearly adversely affected and he couldn't get back to where he was at AZL Cubs in 2005.

 

There is nothing wrong with Mark Pawelek's arm. His problems have all been related to messed-up mechanics that caused his velocity to drop into the mid-80's and his command to go haywire (where he started hitting battersc with regularity), and then (with the drop in velocity and loss of command) a confidence issue ensued.

 

I talked to a scout from another organization last year, and he said his club is just waiting for the Cubs to give up on Pawelek so that his club can get him and "pick up the pieces." (The Cubs minor league pitching coaches are not held in real high esteem by some of the other organizations, BTW).

 

From what I can see, Pawelek at least appears to be getting his confidence and enthusiasm back, and he's once again relying on his innate talent and just cutting the ball loose and then whatever happens, happens. While he might continue to struggle some with command (and what 21-year old hard-throwing left-hander doesn't?), if he's got his confidence and enthusiasm back, that's half the battle.

[Guest]

Rain delay for the Smokies.

[Outshined_One]

So apparently Pawelek really wasn't out of shape when the Cubs said he was:

 

AZ Phil[/url]"]

 

I talked to a scout from another organization last year, and he said his club is just waiting for the Cubs to give up on Pawelek so that his club can get him and "pick up the pieces." (The Cubs minor league pitching coaches are not held in real high esteem by some of the other organizations, BTW).

 

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1868/facepalmet8.jpg

 

Somehow, that comes as little surprise to me.

[rawaction]

So apparently Pawelek really wasn't out of shape when the Cubs said he was:

 

AZ Phil[/url]"]

 

I talked to a scout from another organization last year, and he said his club is just waiting for the Cubs to give up on Pawelek so that his club can get him and "pick up the pieces." (The Cubs minor league pitching coaches are not held in real high esteem by some of the other organizations, BTW).

 

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1868/facepalmet8.jpg

 

Somehow, that comes as little surprise to me.

 

Pitching coaches surprise me. The Cubs have gotten a lot of pitching talent to the majors. Then again, the Cubs have had a lot of top pitching prospects have major arm surgeries. I don't think it's any more than anyone else, though.

[Bruno7481]

The Cubs have one of the best mnor league pitching coordinators in the game, Mark Riggins. I'm not buying what the opposing scout supposedly said. Any team would be interested in picking a guy like Pawelek up, there is no risk invovled.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs have one of the best mnor league pitching coordinators in the game, Mark Riggins. I'm not buying what the opposing scout supposedly said. Any team would be interested in picking a guy like Pawelek up, there is no risk invovled.

 

It makes sense to me that he'd be considered one of the best by the people who agree with his methods, while people with opposite viewpoints would not hold him in high esteem.

[Guest]

The Cubs have one of the best mnor league pitching coordinators in the game, Mark Riggins. I'm not buying what the opposing scout supposedly said. Any team would be interested in picking a guy like Pawelek up, there is no risk invovled.

 

It makes sense to me that he'd be considered one of the best by the people who agree with his methods, while people with opposite viewpoints would not hold him in high esteem.

 

Riggins is new this year. He's had 12 years of experience being the minor league pitching coordinator with the Cardnals and I've read a lot of good things about him from quite a few different people when he was hired. I took the AZ Phil's comments to refer to the old guard under Alan Dunn who still have a presence in the system.

[Guest]

The benches emptied between the sixth and seventh innings and no punches were thrown but Tim Smith, the Clinton designated hitter, and Chiefs manager Ryne Sandberg were ejected.

 

Ryno's turning into the Rasheed Wallace of the MWL.

[craig]

Riggins is new this year. He's had 12 years of experience being the minor league pitching coordinator with the Cardnals and I've read a lot of good things about him from quite a few different people when he was hired. I took the AZ Phil's comments to refer to the old guard under Alan Dunn who still have a presence in the system.

 

I think Dunn only did it for one year, too. And Dunn seemed to be rather universally supported by pitchers he actually coached at AA. Lester Strode was the system pitching coordinator from 96-06. Courtney Duncan was one of the only prospects I ever recall testifying to Strode helping him. I recall thinking it might be a real plus when he got promoted to big-league coach.

 

But, pretty much all of the people have been hired through the Hendry-Fleita pipeline. And a lot of the guys who work in Mesa have been there for a while. Hendry has had a dozen year to establish how he wants things to run in the farm. If you don't like aspects of it, Hendry and his underlings have either established how they do things or hired the people who are doing the teaching, etc..

[Guest]

Riggins is new this year. He's had 12 years of experience being the minor league pitching coordinator with the Cardnals and I've read a lot of good things about him from quite a few different people when he was hired. I took the AZ Phil's comments to refer to the old guard under Alan Dunn who still have a presence in the system.

 

I think Dunn only did it for one year, too. And Dunn seemed to be rather universally supported by pitchers he actually coached at AA. Lester Strode was the system pitching coordinator from 96-06. Courtney Duncan was one of the only prospects I ever recall testifying to Strode helping him. I recall thinking it might be a real plus when he got promoted to big-league coach.

 

But, pretty much all of the people have been hired through the Hendry-Fleita pipeline. And a lot of the guys who work in Mesa have been there for a while. Hendry has had a dozen year to establish how he wants things to run in the farm. If you don't like aspects of it, Hendry and his underlings have either established how they do things or hired the people who are doing the teaching, etc..

 

Good call on Dunn. Obviously he did a lot for Rich Hill (and Dunn vs. Larry Rothschild in 2006 seemed to show Dunn's aptitude as a pitching coach).

 

Riggins is a great hire if only for breaking the Hendry-Fleita pipeline and having past success.

[CubinNY]

So apparently Pawelek really wasn't out of shape when the Cubs said he was:

 

AZ Phil[/url]"]The Cubs selected Mark Pawelek with their #1 pick (#20 overall) in the 2005 Rule 4 (June) draft. He was the 4th HS pitcher selected in the '05 draft, but he almost certainly would have gone higher if it wasn't for the fact that he had Scott Boras as an "advisor" (unofficial agent) and that he had signed a Natioal Letter of Intent to attend Arizona State. But the Cubs were able to sign him, and he reported initially to the AZL Cubs at Fitch Park.

 

I saw Mark Pawelek in his first pro season at AZL Mesa (2005), and I can tell you he was as good as advertised (94 MPH fastball, plus-curve, plus-slider, and plus-change). Then he went to the AZ Instructional League post-2005, and the Cubs coaches apparently started tinkering with his pitch selections, delivery, arm slot, release point, etc (probably with the intention of trying to prevent an arm injury), and he gradually just lost confidence.

 

The Pawelek Family is very unusual, in that the dad fancies himself a pitching coach, and is very involved in Mark's career. His dad pitches for a top senior team, and he really knows his stuff. But he's kind of like Mike Marshall, in that he has a somewhat different approach than most do most minor league pitching coaches.

 

Mark and his older brother Dennis (who was drafted by the White Sox, but chose to play college football instead) had a special work-out regimen back home in Utah, where their dad had them throw every day, and where Mark and Dennis were taught a particular philosophy of pitch selection.

 

Unfortunately, the Cubs have only one way for everybody, and Mark was forced to conform to the Cubs Way (especially when it came to side sessions and pitch selection), and apparently it messed him up.

 

The Cubs claimed Pawelek came to Minor League Camp in 2006 "out of shape," but he wasn't overweight or anything, he was just "messed up" mentally and his mechanics were out of whack, to where his velocity was down into the mid-80's and he couldn't throw any of his "hard" pitches (fastball and slider) for strikes. And he kept hitting batters. How much of that stemmed from his work in the AZ Instructional League after the 2005 season, I don't know, but his confidence was clearly adversely affected and he couldn't get back to where he was at AZL Cubs in 2005.

 

There is nothing wrong with Mark Pawelek's arm. His problems have all been related to messed-up mechanics that caused his velocity to drop into the mid-80's and his command to go haywire (where he started hitting battersc with regularity), and then (with the drop in velocity and loss of command) a confidence issue ensued.

 

I talked to a scout from another organization last year, and he said his club is just waiting for the Cubs to give up on Pawelek so that his club can get him and "pick up the pieces." (The Cubs minor league pitching coaches are not held in real high esteem by some of the other organizations, BTW).

 

From what I can see, Pawelek at least appears to be getting his confidence and enthusiasm back, and he's once again relying on his innate talent and just cutting the ball loose and then whatever happens, happens. While he might continue to struggle some with command (and what 21-year old hard-throwing left-hander doesn't?), if he's got his confidence and enthusiasm back, that's half the battle.

That's great.

 

I wonder though, they seem to be able to produce ML pitchers by the bushel. I guess Mark is a square peg in their factory.

[chattbaseball]

The benches emptied between the sixth and seventh innings and no punches were thrown but Tim Smith, the Clinton designated hitter, and Chiefs manager Ryne Sandberg were ejected.

 

Ryno's turning into the Rasheed Wallace of the MWL.

 

Apparently Ryno and the Clinton manager had words last year when the Clinton manager gave his guy the steal sign while being up 10-0. Last night, up 7-0 in the sixth or seventh inning, he gave had one of his guy bunting (I'm assuming a SAC bunt). Of course that ticked Ryno off. After Clinton's Tim Smith got out to end the inning, Sandberg took off at a dead sprint out of the dugout, chest bumped the Clinton manager and they locked up.

 

The bench clearing "brawl" ensued. From what I heard there was just a lot of pushing and shoving..no punches thrown. I think the players were more in shock than anything...

 

Anyways, it must have been great to see!!! He definitely takes up for his players!

[Bruno7481]

The Cubs have one of the best mnor league pitching coordinators in the game, Mark Riggins. I'm not buying what the opposing scout supposedly said. Any team would be interested in picking a guy like Pawelek up, there is no risk invovled.

 

It makes sense to me that he'd be considered one of the best by the people who agree with his methods, while people with opposite viewpoints would not hold him in high esteem.

 

You've lost me....

 

are yo saying you agree/disagree with his methods? Do you know his methods?

[CubinNY]

The Cubs have one of the best mnor league pitching coordinators in the game, Mark Riggins. I'm not buying what the opposing scout supposedly said. Any team would be interested in picking a guy like Pawelek up, there is no risk invovled.

 

It makes sense to me that he'd be considered one of the best by the people who agree with his methods, while people with opposite viewpoints would not hold him in high esteem.

 

You've lost me....

 

are yo saying you agree/disagree with his methods? Do you know his methods?

What he's saying is, is that people who agree with his methods will hold him in high regard. People who don't agree with his methods don't hold him in high regard. I don't think goony has an opinion one way or the other.

[Bruno7481]

The Cubs have one of the best mnor league pitching coordinators in the game, Mark Riggins. I'm not buying what the opposing scout supposedly said. Any team would be interested in picking a guy like Pawelek up, there is no risk invovled.

 

It makes sense to me that he'd be considered one of the best by the people who agree with his methods, while people with opposite viewpoints would not hold him in high esteem.

 

You've lost me....

 

are yo saying you agree/disagree with his methods? Do you know his methods?

What he's saying is, is that people who agree with his methods will hold him in high regard. People who don't agree with his methods don't hold him in high regard. I don't think goony has an opinion one way or the other.

 

Gotcha.

[TruffleShuffle]

on this one, i'll have to stick up for the cubs. when you get drafted by a team, you need to conform to their way of preparation and throwing between games. you can't just do what you've always done, or what your dad thinks is best. if you let pawelek do his own thing then you have to let everyone do their own thing, and you've got a system where there's no organizational philosophy. even if the cubs aren't doing it the way they should be - i don't know that i can fairly judge on this matter - they certainly have the right to coach guys in the way that they want.