Average prospects who become above average major leaguers?

[SouthSideRyan]

Not sure how their prospect status was, but...

 

- Rickey Henderson was a 4th round draft pick (and Rickey Henderson ended up being all the Rickey Henderson that Rickey Henderson could be )

- Andre Dawson was an 11th round Draft Pick

- Ryne Sandberg was a 20th round draft pick

- Nolan Ryan was a 12th round drasft pick

- Jim Thome was a 13th round draft pick

- David Ortiz signed as an amateur but didn't really get good until he went to Boston

- Mike Piazza is the mecca, a 62nd round draft pick

- AJ Burnett was an 8th round draft pick

- Sammy Sosa was an amateur free agent, but I'm pretty sure he sucked big time in the minors

 

All non-US and Canada players(am i missing anywhere?) sign as amateur FAs.

 

I figured, but Sosa and Ortiz were pretty bad/mediocre before breaking out and becoming elite hitters, were they not?

 

Sosa was always highly touted as a 5 tool stud. Ortiz I don't know about, and there is a limit to how much I can dick around at work.

[TruffleShuffle]

ooh i have another one... john jaha

[Guest]

Not sure how their prospect status was, but...

 

- Rickey Henderson was a 4th round draft pick (and Rickey Henderson ended up being all the Rickey Henderson that Rickey Henderson could be )

- Andre Dawson was an 11th round Draft Pick

- Ryne Sandberg was a 20th round draft pick

- Nolan Ryan was a 12th round drasft pick

- Jim Thome was a 13th round draft pick

- David Ortiz signed as an amateur but didn't really get good until he went to Boston

- Mike Piazza is the mecca, a 62nd round draft pick

- AJ Burnett was an 8th round draft pick

- Sammy Sosa was an amateur free agent, but I'm pretty sure he sucked big time in the minors

 

All non-US and Canada players(am i missing anywhere?) sign as amateur FAs.

 

I figured, but Sosa and Ortiz were pretty bad/mediocre before breaking out and becoming elite hitters, were they not?

 

Sosa was always highly touted as a 5 tool stud. Ortiz I don't know about, and there is a limit to how much I can dick around at work.

 

Of the guys listed there, Sosa, Burnett, Piazza, Ortiz, Thome, Ryan and Dawson were thought of as solid prospects by the time they were trying to break into the big leagues. Don't know about Ryno and Henderson, though I'd find it hard to believe Henderson wasn't considered a good prospect.

[Jehrico]

Not sure how their prospect status was, but...

 

- Rickey Henderson was a 4th round draft pick (and Rickey Henderson ended up being all the Rickey Henderson that Rickey Henderson could be )

- Andre Dawson was an 11th round Draft Pick

- Ryne Sandberg was a 20th round draft pick

- Nolan Ryan was a 12th round drasft pick

- Jim Thome was a 13th round draft pick

- David Ortiz signed as an amateur but didn't really get good until he went to Boston

- Mike Piazza is the mecca, a 62nd round draft pick

- AJ Burnett was an 8th round draft pick

- Sammy Sosa was an amateur free agent, but I'm pretty sure he sucked big time in the minors

 

All non-US and Canada players(am i missing anywhere?) sign as amateur FAs.

 

I figured, but Sosa and Ortiz were pretty bad/mediocre before breaking out and becoming elite hitters, were they not?

 

Sosa was always highly touted as a 5 tool stud. Ortiz I don't know about, and there is a limit to how much I can dick around at work.

 

Of the guys listed there, Sosa, Burnett, Piazza, Ortiz, Thome, Ryan and Dawson were thought of as solid prospects by the time they were trying to break into the big leagues. Don't know about Ryno and Henderson, though I'd find it hard to believe Henderson wasn't considered a good prospect.

Sandberg was the throw in for Larry Bowa. That should tell you what the Phils thought about him.

[bukie]

Sandberg had a very good AA year at age 20, but he never exhibited any sort of the power that he did in the majors.

[inari]

Okay, not to harp on Zambrano, but he was a highly regarded prospect? I don't remember that at all. What's the highest he was ever ranked?

[jersey cubs fan]

Okay, not to harp on Zambrano, but he was a highly regarded prospect? I don't remember that at all. What's the highest he was ever ranked?

 

Ask Oscar Acosta, he claimed he'd been hearing big things about Zambrano for years when he was about 20.

 

Zambrano took a back seat to Juan Cruz, but he was well known as a prospect. Some had him becoming a dominant closer. Others had him being a top of the rotation starter. Perhaps he's outdone his prospect expecations, but he was far from average. He was a pretty big prospect in what was at the time a great system.

[TruffleShuffle]

Okay, not to harp on Zambrano, but he was a highly regarded prospect? I don't remember that at all. What's the highest he was ever ranked?

 

he was ranked #5 in the cubs system in the 2001 BA handbook (behind patterson, cruz, choi and ben christensen, lol) and #6 in the 2002 edition (behind prior, cruz, choi, david kelton and bobby hill). the cubs' system was very highly-rated at the time, so being the #5 or #6 prospect in the cubs system meant that the prospect was highly-regarded overall.

[CoolHandLuke]

Shoot, Zambrano stormed through the minors. He was a mainstay in the Cubs rotation a mere five years after signing as a 16 year old.

[biittner77]

I seem to remember that George Brett had very pedestrian minor league numbers.

 

I'd bet there are lots more pitchers. I heard some Dodgers minor league guy talking about how he advised Orel Hershieser to quit baseball unless he developed some sort of plus pitch.

[Guest]

Sandberg was the throw in for Larry Bowa. That should tell you what the Phils thought about him.

 

Sandberg had a very good AA year at age 20, but he never exhibited any sort of the power that he did in the majors.

 

Thanks, that was my thinking too. Was a throw-in but did display some nice stats at levels where he was younger than the avg age.

 

In regards to Z, he got a sizable bonus out of Latin America, was pushed aggressively and responded well (age 17 & 18 in Lansing, 18 & 19 in West Tenn and 19 in Iowa) and had great stuff. He should have been rated higher but got lost behind the shuffle of Prior and Cruz (pre age-gate) and part of the reason he was probably rated lower was because the Cubs sent him to the pen at Iowa. Carlos Zambrano was still a border-line top 50 prospect going into 2002.

[TruffleShuffle]

thumbing through my old BA handbooks, i have some more info. scot shields is in fact a good example; he was rated #21 and then #22 among angels prospects in 2001 and 2002. jhonny peralta was never ranked that highly, nor was ryan church. brandon backe, though calling him above average is extremely generous. does shane victorino count? Justin Duchscherer is an above-average middle reliever. ty wigginton. pat neshek.

 

i guess my read on it is that you can find some useful contributors and a handful of above-average players that just blossom late, but you're going to be really hard-pressed to find any true stars who didn't have at least some buzz coming up through the minors.

[TruffleShuffle]

part of the reason he was probably rated lower was because the Cubs sent him to the pen at Iowa.

 

i remember that, and i remember how much it pissed me off. BA's scouting report said he sat in the mid 90s with his fastball and maintained his velocity deep into games. okay, so why the hell are we trying to make him into a reliever? oh that's right, our big league bullpen sucks so we panic with our prospects and convert them into a role they're not best suited for.

[Guest]

part of the reason he was probably rated lower was because the Cubs sent him to the pen at Iowa.

 

i remember that, and i remember how much it pissed me off. BA's scouting report said he sat in the mid 90s with his fastball and maintained his velocity deep into games. okay, so why the hell are we trying to make him into a reliever? oh that's right, our big league bullpen sucks so we panic with our prospects and convert them into a role they're not best suited for.

 

Oh yeah, that was ridiculous. I also was pretty furious when I read about the move.

 

I think it was the year before in Lansing when he hit 96 mph in the 9th inning of a complete game. As a 17-year old.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't think Sandberg was a throw in at all. It may have been reported as such because he was just a prospect, but I think the Cubs wanted him more than Bowa IIRC.

[sneakypower]

ooh i have another one... john jaha

well he certainly had artificial help

[Abe Frohman]

Jeff Bagwell.

[NCCubFan]

I don't think Sandberg was a throw in at all. It may have been reported as such because he was just a prospect, but I think the Cubs wanted him more than Bowa IIRC.

Dallas Green did say that after Sandberg was established as a star. He said it was Sandberg they really wanted, but they publicized it as though Bowa was the main target so Sandberg wouldn't feel pressure.

[Jon]

What about Michael Wuertz? I'm not sure if this discussion should include bullpen pitchers, but I don't believe he was ever thought of as more than an average prospect. Perhaps earlier on, but he certainly struggled at Iowa.

[erik316wttn]

Okay, not to harp on Zambrano, but he was a highly regarded prospect? I don't remember that at all. What's the highest he was ever ranked?

 

he was ranked #5 in the cubs system in the 2001 BA handbook (behind patterson, cruz, choi and ben christensen, lol) and #6 in the 2002 edition (behind prior, cruz, choi, david kelton and bobby hill). the cubs' system was very highly-rated at the time, so being the #5 or #6 prospect in the cubs system meant that the prospect was highly-regarded overall.

 

Oh god, David Kelton? That's the first time I've heard that name in years. Whatever happened to him, anyway? Is he even still in baseball?

[erik316wttn]

Jeff Bagwell.

 

Winner.

 

At the time it was pretty much regarded that the Astros gave away Larry Andersen, correct? Bags wasn't much more than an average 3rd base prospect in the Red Sox system from everything I've heard.

[CubinNY]

Jeff Bagwell.

 

Winner.

 

At the time it was pretty much regarded that the Astros gave away Larry Andersen, correct? Bags wasn't much more than an average 3rd base prospect in the Red Sox system from everything I've heard.

Not exactly. Bagwell was a 4th round draft pick who was the rookie of the year. He was drafted in 1989 and in the Bigs by 1991.

 

Minor League Numbers

	GCL Redsox	GCL	21	Bos	Rk	 	3b	 	5	19	3	6	1	0	0	3	0	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	  	.316	.409	.368	777	--
	Winter Hvn	FSL	21	Bos	A+	 	3b	 	64	210	27	65	13	2	2	19	1	1	23	25	3	0	3	1	  	.310	.384	.419	803	--
 NewBritain	East	22	Bos	AA	 	3b	 	136	481	63	160	34	7	4	61	5	7	73	57	6	12	3	6	  	.333	.422	.457	879