Walks in the early going

[TheDude]

I've been around NSBB for several years and anyone who knows me knows I hate a lack of walks by a hitting squad, and further hate walks by the pitching staff. Both have been major points of contention with Cubs teams for the last 5 years at least.

 

While it probably means nothing overall, it is nice to see the early trends:

 

Cubs pitching staff has the fewest walks issued in the NL. 22 walks in 82 innings. The team K/BB ratio is 2.68, behind only the Reds in the NL.

Cubs hitters have taken 37 walks in 8 games, behind only the Reds and Cards in the NL.

 

Clearly the team isn't going to keep this trend all season, with this 25-man roster. But it is very refreshing to see these numbers attached to a Cubs team even for an 8-game stretch.

[Banedon]

Almost more amazing is that the Cubs are being beat in both categories by Dusty Baker's Reds...he of "clogging the bases" disdain. I'd venture to say the Reds don't finish the season that well, at least not in drawing walks.

[TheDude]

Almost more amazing is that the Cubs are being beat in both categories by Dusty Baker's Reds...he of "clogging the bases" disdain. I'd venture to say the Reds don't finish the season that well, at least not in drawing walks.

 

He has a veteran team that he didn't help assemble. Dusty's deteriorating impact won't be felt until next year, or the year after. He can't change the approach of veterans like Dunn, Griffey, or Hatteberg (I haven't looked it up but surely these three are near the top for the team). His impact is on the youth.

[Roast]

The reds are a-top the league in walks taken? Dusty Baker must be going ape-{crap}

[wade]

Almost more amazing is that the Cubs are being beat in both categories by Dusty Baker's Reds...he of "clogging the bases" disdain. I'd venture to say the Reds don't finish the season that well, at least not in drawing walks.

 

He has a veteran team that he didn't help assemble. Dusty's deteriorating impact won't be felt until next year, or the year after. He can't change the approach of veterans like Dunn, Griffey, or Hatteberg (I haven't looked it up but surely these three are near the top for the team). His impact is on the youth.

 

From the few games I've seen you're right, those are the usuals suspects drawing walks for the Reds. And Cueto's unwordly 18-0 k to bb ratio helps this smallish sample size on the pitching side.

[BigbadB]

Edwin Encarnacion got himself a little bench time yesterday since all he's done is clog bases with walks. Amazingly enough, Edwin has drawn 9 or 10 walks in the early going.

[TheDude]

Edwin Encarnacion got himself a little bench time yesterday since all he's done is clog bases with walks. Amazingly enough, Edwin has drawn 9 or 10 walks in the early going.

 

Well he is carrying a .083/.333/.208 line with an OPS of .541 so far. Dusty has no patience for someone hitting under .100, and he has no issue with using a less than 10 game sample size (as we all know well).

 

Anyway, back to the Cubs, I really hope the patience Ramirez has exhibited continues, because as much as people have debated the placement of Fukudome in the 5-spot, having Lee-Ramirez-Fukudome at 3-4-5 as the walks leaders on this club will be an exciting development for a Cubs franchise that has been laking such patience.

 

Obviously 1-2 is going to continue to spark debate for several more years given Soriano's contract. But Fukudome appears to have immediate impact so far, and I hope that patience catches on with the younger guys.

[jersey cubs fan]

Edwin Encarnacion got himself a little bench time yesterday since all he's done is clog bases with walks. Amazingly enough, Edwin has drawn 9 or 10 walks in the early going.

 

Well he is carrying a .083/.333/.208 line with an OPS of .541 so far. Dusty has no patience for someone hitting under .100, and he has no issue with using a less than 10 game sample size (as we all know well).

 

Anyway, back to the Cubs, I really hope the patience Ramirez has exhibited continues, because as much as people have debated the placement of Fukudome in the 5-spot, having Lee-Ramirez-Fukudome at 3-4-5 as the walks leaders on this club will be an exciting development for a Cubs franchise that has been laking such patience.

 

Obviously 1-2 is going to continue to spark debate for several more years given Soriano's contract. But Fukudome appears to have immediate impact so far, and I hope that patience catches on with the younger guys.

 

I fear Aramis's patience is a bit of a mirage. He's patient in the sense that he'll take pitches, but it seems to me that he just decides beforehand whether or not to take a pitch, especially the first pitch, and isn't really recognizing balls and strikes all that well. Once he gets two strikes, he's hacking at everything. Of course, I've only actually seen a small percentage of his at bats, and have no idea. I'm probably just basing this off his history as a bit of a hacker.

[TheDude]

I fear Aramis's patience is a bit of a mirage. He's patient in the sense that he'll take pitches, but it seems to me that he just decides beforehand whether or not to take a pitch, especially the first pitch, and isn't really recognizing balls and strikes all that well. Once he gets two strikes, he's hacking at everything. Of course, I've only actually seen a small percentage of his at bats, and have no idea. I'm probably just basing this off his history as a bit of a hacker.

 

I've watched every game so far but one, and my personal observation is that Ramirez isn't biting as often on pitches on the outer half of the plate. I agree his patience is largely predetermined rather than based in pitch recognition. If the count doesn't have two strikes, he has been taking pitches that are not in his wheel-house, which is middle-in, or lower-in. That's an indication of predetermined, narrow zone in a non-two-strike count.

 

However, with two strikes, he has been swinging at anything that might be a strike.

[mcgoobs]

This year's team appears to be showing an unusual amount of patience at the plate. Whether this is due to a change in mentality, specific players, or the pitching we have faced, it's not clear. But here are the walk totals by the offense:

 

2005: 419 (2.6 per game), 16th in the NL

2006: 395 (2.4 per game), 16th in the NL

2007: 500 (3.1 per game), 15th in the NL

2008: 48 through 12 games (4.0 per game)

[TruffleShuffle]

This year's team appears to be showing an unusual amount of patience at the plate. Whether this is due to a change in mentality, specific players, or the pitching we have faced, it's not clear. But here are the walk totals by the offense:

 

2005: 419 (2.6 per game), 16th in the NL

2006: 395 (2.4 per game), 16th in the NL

2007: 500 (3.1 per game), 15th in the NL

 

you'd think it wouldn't take the cubs so long to figure out why the offense sucks.

[Guest]

This year's team appears to be showing an unusual amount of patience at the plate. Whether this is due to a change in mentality, specific players, or the pitching we have faced, it's not clear. But here are the walk totals by the offense:

 

2005: 419 (2.6 per game), 16th in the NL

2006: 395 (2.4 per game), 16th in the NL

2007: 500 (3.1 per game), 15th in the NL

 

you'd think it wouldn't take the cubs so long to figure out why the offense sucks.

So even when they improve...it's still time to criticize! :D

[Vanilla Ice]

This year's team appears to be showing an unusual amount of patience at the plate. Whether this is due to a change in mentality, specific players, or the pitching we have faced, it's not clear. But here are the walk totals by the offense:

 

2005: 419 (2.6 per game), 16th in the NL

2006: 395 (2.4 per game), 16th in the NL

2007: 500 (3.1 per game), 15th in the NL

 

you'd think it wouldn't take the cubs so long to figure out why the offense sucks.

So even when they improve...it's still time to criticize! :D

when did you decide to rename rivalries and baseball discussions?

[Guest]

This year's team appears to be showing an unusual amount of patience at the plate. Whether this is due to a change in mentality, specific players, or the pitching we have faced, it's not clear. But here are the walk totals by the offense:

 

2005: 419 (2.6 per game), 16th in the NL

2006: 395 (2.4 per game), 16th in the NL

2007: 500 (3.1 per game), 15th in the NL

 

you'd think it wouldn't take the cubs so long to figure out why the offense sucks.

So even when they improve...it's still time to criticize! :D

when did you decide to rename rivalries and baseball discussions?

A few minutes ago.

[weis21]

I'm thinking it just took a full transition year for the cubs players to rid themselves of the ultra-aggressive crap baker preached for years.

 

Also, I like the names. "Cubs Discussions" is just more appealing IMO.

[wrigley23]

it must drive you as bananas as me to see Soriano lead off the game flailing at everything coming his way. He is one of the few hitters that swings at balls over his head w/ a 2-0 count or the first pitch after following a walk. He is a complete mental midget at the plate. His OBP at the top is in the low 200's & it is infuriating.

[BigbadB]

it must drive you as bananas as me to see Soriano lead off the game flailing at everything coming his way. He is one of the few hitters that swings at balls over his head w/ a 2-0 count or the first pitch after following a walk. He is a complete mental midget at the plate. His OBP at the top is in the low 200's & it is infuriating.

 

Not at all. Eventually those swings will result in good things happening.

[imb]

if i ever saw soriano out in the street i'd jack him right in the jaw his obp makes me that mad guys

[wrigley23]

Not at all. Eventually those swings will result in good things happening.

 

yeah...silly me...this is the Chicago Soriano's after all. He is a liability to the team at this point. Even at his best last year, he did not impress. He rarely gets on base, which is the main job of the leadoff hitter. He doesn't work the count either which is another key part of being a leadoff hitter. Beyond that, we've heard all of these excuses about him being a better hitter at the top then in the middle where there is more pressure which is a very lame excuse. He is not hitting at the top either. Also, even when he does get on...he can no longer run. He needs to be in the middle to at least drive in runs when this so called hot streak comes along. Fukodome should be leading off on this team. He is a good hitter, works the count & has the right mindset for a leadoff hitter at the plate. He is not a basestealer but neither is Soriano...in part because he never gets on.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Not at all. Eventually those swings will result in good things happening.

 

yeah...silly me...this is the Chicago Soriano's after all. He is a liability to the team at this point. Even at his best last year, he did not impress. He rarely gets on base, which is the main job of the leadoff hitter. He doesn't work the count either which is another key part of being a leadoff hitter. Beyond that, we've heard all of these excuses about him being a better hitter at the top then in the middle where there is more pressure which is a very lame excuse. He is not hitting at the top either. Also, even when he does get on...he can no longer run. He needs to be in the middle to at least drive in runs when this so called hot streak comes along. Fukodome should be leading off on this team. He is a good hitter, works the count & has the right mindset for a leadoff hitter at the plate. He is not a basestealer but neither is Soriano...in part because he never gets on.

 

I don't know. His three homer game vs the Braves was very impressive.

[JimSorgi]

Not at all. Eventually those swings will result in good things happening.

 

yeah...silly me...this is the Chicago Soriano's after all. He is a liability to the team at this point. Even at his best last year, he did not impress. He rarely gets on base, which is the main job of the leadoff hitter. He doesn't work the count either which is another key part of being a leadoff hitter. Beyond that, we've heard all of these excuses about him being a better hitter at the top then in the middle where there is more pressure which is a very lame excuse. He is not hitting at the top either. Also, even when he does get on...he can no longer run. He needs to be in the middle to at least drive in runs when this so called hot streak comes along. Fukodome should be leading off on this team. He is a good hitter, works the count & has the right mindset for a leadoff hitter at the plate. He is not a basestealer but neither is Soriano...in part because he never gets on.

 

I don't know. His three homer game vs the Braves was very impressive.

 

Yeah, but he didn't work the count in those at bats.

[Sammy Sofa]

He rarely gets on base, which is the main job of the leadoff hitter.

 

No, the main "job" of a "leadoff hitter" is to score runs.

[Guest]

Edwin Encarnacion got himself a little bench time yesterday since all he's done is clog bases with walks. Amazingly enough, Edwin has drawn 9 or 10 walks in the early going.

 

Well he is carrying a .083/.333/.208 line with an OPS of .541 so far. Dusty has no patience for someone hitting under .100, and he has no issue with using a less than 10 game sample size (as we all know well).

 

Anyway, back to the Cubs, I really hope the patience Ramirez has exhibited continues, because as much as people have debated the placement of Fukudome in the 5-spot, having Lee-Ramirez-Fukudome at 3-4-5 as the walks leaders on this club will be an exciting development for a Cubs franchise that has been laking such patience.

 

Obviously 1-2 is going to continue to spark debate for several more years given Soriano's contract. But Fukudome appears to have immediate impact so far, and I hope that patience catches on with the younger guys.

 

I fear Aramis's patience is a bit of a mirage. He's patient in the sense that he'll take pitches, but it seems to me that he just decides beforehand whether or not to take a pitch, especially the first pitch, and isn't really recognizing balls and strikes all that well. Once he gets two strikes, he's hacking at everything. Of course, I've only actually seen a small percentage of his at bats, and have no idea. I'm probably just basing this off his history as a bit of a hacker.

 

 

Really? While he doesn't walk often, I've always felt that Ramirez was pretty selective when he swung. Especially in "clutch" situations.

[rawaction]

He rarely gets on base, which is the main job of the leadoff hitter.

 

No, the main "job" of a "leadoff hitter" is to score runs.

 

No, it is to get on base. It's the job of every hitter to get on base first and foremost. If you don't get on base you don't score runs. Scoring runs is almost completely dependent on other players, with the HR being the exception.

[TheDude]

Soriano was not brought to Chicago for his OBP, so the argument is somewhat moot when context is considered. Yes a lead-off hitter is supposed to work counts and get on-base - I'm not arguing a that point. Soriano is not that guy, and never will be. The Cubs knew this, and signed him anyway.

 

That tells you that Soriano's job is not that of a traditional lead-off man. His employer signed him to produce at worst 30/30, at best 40/40 seasons. That is his job. Trying to argue that Soriano is a liability to the team because he isn't doing his job makes no sense, because his job is different than that of a classic lead-off man. His expected ceiling OBP is .350.

 

It should also tell you something that the Cubs are aware of the disconnect, considering the amount of time spent in the offseason trying to get Roberts, who is 100% the classic lead-off man, and considering Piniella's sporadic attempts to move Soriano down to either 2 or 5. It is clear Lou Piniella doesn't consider Soriano in the lead-off role as the ideal, but it's also pretty clear he doesn't think he has a better alternative given his 25 man.

 

More on topic, the Cubs pitching staff reverted to it's classic self over the weekend, walking 13 guys in 18 innings. Fingers-crossed it was just a bump.