Harden?

[javy knows my name]

Why can't people stop saying Beane only wants OBP and plate discipline? He wouldn't have taken Carlos Gonzalez from the Diamondbacks if that were true.

 

But anyway, it doesn't matter, not going to happen.

Thank you. OBP is no longer undervalued, people. Beane will find something else that is overlooked by the majority and then someone will write Moneyball II and expose that attribute and the cycle will continue.

[sneakypower]

i can't really see the reason for writing a Moneyball II unless Beane craves the extra further admiration wants the organization set back again.

[rchap24]

I would pay the kings ransom for someone like Harden. He is very good and young still!

[Rob]

Harden would have to come fairly cheap to justify the cost in talent. He's an amazing pitcher, but he's hardly ever able to get on the field. We can't afford to give up much for such a potential wildcard.

[javy knows my name]

i can't really see the reason for writing a Moneyball II unless Beane craves the extra further admiration wants the organization set back again.

I don't think Beane would have much say in whether a sequel gets written or not. Of course, I was kidding.

Out of curiosity, what about Moneyball do you think set the organization back?

[imb]

No one is going to offer up enough for Harden for Beane to justify trading him imo

[sneakypower]

i can't really see the reason for writing a Moneyball II unless Beane craves the extra further admiration wants the organization set back again.

I don't think Beane would have much say in whether a sequel gets written or not. Of course, I was kidding.

Out of curiosity, what about Moneyball do you think set the organization back?

Giving away business secrets, for lack of a better term. He revealed his strategy and lost the OBP undervalued market, having to resort to the whole sinkerballers and superlative defenders strategy which hasn't really worked so well. He's bright and he'll find a new niche to exploit, such as AAAA guys, but Depod and Towers are hitting that one hard too. Right now he's left to the Beinfest model. Which will be impossible to succeed with if he's not getting superstars in the draft, which has been the case the past few years. Just a lot of solid unspectacular contributors. But recycling the Swishers and Harens he drafts should allow him to float around .500 or a little better every once in awhile, which might be a good achievement given his payroll.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why can't people stop saying Beane only wants OBP and plate discipline? He wouldn't have taken Carlos Gonzalez from the Diamondbacks if that were true.

 

But anyway, it doesn't matter, not going to happen.

 

I agree that he doesn't only look for OBP and patience. But he does look for players he believes are undervalued. I would think he believes Murton is undervalued by the Cubs. That said, Murton's has more service time than Beane would probably want in a player, given that the As aren't contending.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why can't people stop saying Beane only wants OBP and plate discipline? He wouldn't have taken Carlos Gonzalez from the Diamondbacks if that were true.

 

But anyway, it doesn't matter, not going to happen.

 

I agree that he doesn't only look for OBP and patience. But he does look for players he believes are undervalued. I would think he believes Murton is undervalued by the Cubs. That said, Murton's has more service time than Beane would probably want in a player, given that the As aren't contending.

 

Probably, but when you look at Beane's tendency to trade for an undervalued asset, build up his value and then trade him for more than he spent (like with closers), Murton could be an ideal candidate. If Beane feels Murton could fit right in and be a solid starting outfielder, he could get him for cheap, play him for 150 games, then trade him next offseason. That way, he's gone before he becomes expensive but after he shows he belongs.

[TheDude]

Buster Olney's take:

 

• Rich Harden is going to be the single biggest difference-maker available for trade before the July 31 deadline. If the guy continues to take the ball -- two starts and counting, for a pitcher who has worked only 200 innings the last three years -- he will always take Cy Young-caliber stuff to the mound. If you add the Harden who threw against the Red Sox in his first two outings to the pitching staff of the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, D-backs, Rockies, etc. -- and he remained healthy -- that team would be the club to beat in their respective league. He's that good ... when he pitches.

 

Think he's pretty much spot on. The guy is good and affordable, and the Cubs don't have the goods to get him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think the Cubs do have the goods to get him; I'm not sure the Cubs pay the price to get him.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the Cubs do have the goods to get him; I'm not sure the Cubs pay the price to get him.

 

They have a GM with less incentive to play it safe than just about any other.

[CubColtPacer]

I think the Cubs do have the goods to get him; I'm not sure the Cubs pay the price to get him.

 

They have a GM with less incentive to play it safe than just about any other.

 

Not from what Bruce was intimating during Spring Training that Hendry was very likely here to stay for at least 2009 and probably longer due to the ownership situation.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the Cubs do have the goods to get him; I'm not sure the Cubs pay the price to get him.

 

They have a GM with less incentive to play it safe than just about any other.

 

Not from what Bruce was intimating during Spring Training that Hendry was very likely here to stay for at least 2009 and probably longer due to the ownership situation.

 

There's the uncertainty about his job thing, and the 100 year desperation thing, plus the Roberts trade fell through, leaving the farm intact for other trades.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So, would the package the Cubs were rumored to offer for Roberts be close enough to get us into the Harden discussions?

 

Gallagher seems like the type of pitcher that would interest the A's. I just wonder what else we'd have to add to the package.

[Rob]

So, would the package the Cubs were rumored to offer for Roberts be close enough to get us into the Harden discussions?

 

Gallagher seems like the type of pitcher that would interest the A's. I just wonder what else we'd have to add to the package.

 

A lot.

 

I can't see Beane selling Harden unless he was getting a package worthy of an ace. Harden's health isn't going to give anybody much of a discount. If we came calling, I imagine he'd be asking for Hill and Pie to start. We could probably bargain Hill out of the deal, but it'd cost us most of the stuff on the top of our system.

[Geech]

Giving away business secrets, for lack of a better term. He revealed his strategy and lost the OBP undervalued market, having to resort to the whole sinkerballers and superlative defenders strategy which hasn't really worked so well. He's bright and he'll find a new niche to exploit, such as AAAA guys, but Depod and Towers are hitting that one hard too. Right now he's left to the Beinfest model. Which will be impossible to succeed with if he's not getting superstars in the draft, which has been the case the past few years. Just a lot of solid unspectacular contributors. But recycling the Swishers and Harens he drafts should allow him to float around .500 or a little better every once in awhile, which might be a good achievement given his payroll.

 

The cat was already pretty well out of the bag at that point. Moneyball probably accelerated the process, but with Ricciardi in Toronto, Epstein in Boston, and Cashman in New York, OBP wasn't going to be undervalued for much longer.

[mdwilla]

I think the price will be a lot cheaper for the older version of Harden who's a free agent at season's end if he's healthy.

(Burnett)

[wrigley23]

The cat was already pretty well out of the bag at that point. Moneyball probably accelerated the process, but with Ricciardi in Toronto, Epstein in Boston, and Cashman in New York, OBP wasn't going to be undervalued for much longer.

 

That book hasn't made it's way to the Cubs clubhouse yet...

[davearm2]

So, would the package the Cubs were rumored to offer for Roberts be close enough to get us into the Harden discussions?

 

Gallagher seems like the type of pitcher that would interest the A's. I just wonder what else we'd have to add to the package.

 

A lot.

 

I can't see Beane selling Harden unless he was getting a package worthy of an ace. Harden's health isn't going to give anybody much of a discount. If we came calling, I imagine he'd be asking for Hill and Pie to start. We could probably bargain Hill out of the deal, but it'd cost us most of the stuff on the top of our system.

I dunno. Beane seemed to be pretty reasonable on the Swisher deal, and I can't imagine Harden approaching Swisher's value.

 

Swisher's got all of the impact of Harden, but with a much more team-friendly contract, and none of the injury issues that Harden comes with.

[davearm2]

I think the price will be a lot cheaper for the older version of Harden who's a free agent at season's end if he's healthy.

(Burnett)

Burnett's definitely a guy to keep an eye on, but you're still going to offer Toronto enough to make them pass up the high draft pick(s) they'd get if they keep him. (Not to mention, before the discussion can even get off the ground, Toronto has to fall out of the race.)

[sneakypower]

if we've got designs on the playoffs come july i'd really let ricciardi or beane name their price in prospects for Burnett or Harden.

 

we only have 1 guy in the rotation who can be overpowering in a playoff atmosphere. i know Hill has flashes of brilliance, but I don't feel good about having him as the #2 in a short series. Burnett and Harden inspire a lot more confidence and that's worth a whole lot to me. it's not like we don't have a full stable of pitchers who can start if one gets hurt.

[Rob]

if we've got designs on the playoffs come july i'd really let ricciardi or beane name their price in prospects for Burnett or Harden.

 

That's just silly.

 

Once Toronto falls out of playoff contention, they'll be itching to get rid of Burnett. If he's healthy and pitching well, he'll opt out of his contract at the end of the season, and they wouldn't get any compensatory draft picks for that. If he's not healthy at the end of the season, he wont exercise the opt-out, which puts Ricciardi (whom has already publicly traded jabs with Burnett) in the situation of having an injured ace making twelve million for each of the next two years.

 

Burnett's contract is going to screw Toronto one way or the other. Letting Ricciardi name his price would be utterly foolish. Play hardball in negotiations and walk away with a good chunk of your top-tier talent still intact instead.

[JeffH]

if we've got designs on the playoffs come july i'd really let ricciardi or beane name their price in prospects for Burnett or Harden.

 

That's just silly.

 

Once Toronto falls out of playoff contention, they'll be itching to get rid of Burnett. If he's healthy and pitching well, he'll opt out of his contract at the end of the season, and they wouldn't get any compensatory draft picks for that. If he's not healthy at the end of the season, he wont exercise the opt-out, which puts Ricciardi (whom has already publicly traded jabs with Burnett) in the situation of having an injured ace making twelve million for each of the next two years.

 

Burnett's contract is going to screw Toronto one way or the other. Letting Ricciardi name his price would be utterly foolish. Play hardball in negotiations and walk away with a good chunk of your top-tier talent still intact instead.

 

I believe the bolded part is not true.

[Guest]

if we've got designs on the playoffs come july i'd really let ricciardi or beane name their price in prospects for Burnett or Harden.

 

That's just silly.

 

Once Toronto falls out of playoff contention, they'll be itching to get rid of Burnett. If he's healthy and pitching well, he'll opt out of his contract at the end of the season, and they wouldn't get any compensatory draft picks for that. If he's not healthy at the end of the season, he wont exercise the opt-out, which puts Ricciardi (whom has already publicly traded jabs with Burnett) in the situation of having an injured ace making twelve million for each of the next two years.

 

Burnett's contract is going to screw Toronto one way or the other. Letting Ricciardi name his price would be utterly foolish. Play hardball in negotiations and walk away with a good chunk of your top-tier talent still intact instead.

 

I believe the bolded part is not true.

It isn't.