Cameron to the Brewers

[Ender]

Funny that none of the NL Central teams seem to realise that the one thing that keeps each of them from dominance is a well rounded pitching staff.

 

 

The Brewers had the 3rd best FIP in the NL last year so it was really the fact they had the 3rd worst defense in the NL that held their pitching down. When you add in the fact they are in a hitters park vs an extreme pitchers park they had the 2nd or 3rd best pitching in the NL and they should be better this year.

[nilodnayr]

Funny that none of the NL Central teams seem to realise that the one thing that keeps each of them from dominance is a well rounded pitching staff.

 

Ben Sheets, Yovani Gallardo, Dave Bush, Jeff Suppan, Chris Capuano, Claudio Vargas, Carlos Villanueva, and Manny Parra say "what the hell"?

[inari]

Funny that none of the NL Central teams seem to realise that the one thing that keeps each of them from dominance is a well rounded pitching staff.

 

 

The Brewers had the 3rd best FIP in the NL last year so it was really the fact they had the 3rd worst defense in the NL that held their pitching down. When you add in the fact they are in a hitters park vs an extreme pitchers park they had the 2nd or 3rd best pitching in the NL and they should be better this year.

 

2nd or 3rd best pitching in the NL? I think not.

[nilodnayr]

Funny that none of the NL Central teams seem to realise that the one thing that keeps each of them from dominance is a well rounded pitching staff.

 

 

The Brewers had the 3rd best FIP in the NL last year so it was really the fact they had the 3rd worst defense in the NL that held their pitching down. When you add in the fact they are in a hitters park vs an extreme pitchers park they had the 2nd or 3rd best pitching in the NL and they should be better this year.

 

2nd or 3rd best pitching in the NL? I think not.

 

Well if you think not, thats all the rationale that i need

[SouthSideRyan]

Funny that none of the NL Central teams seem to realise that the one thing that keeps each of them from dominance is a well rounded pitching staff.

 

Ben Sheets, Yovani Gallardo, Dave Bush, Jeff Suppan, Chris Capuano, Claudio Vargas, Carlos Villanueva, and Manny Parra say "what the hell"?

 

Well, Manny Parra says OW MY ARM!!! But everyone else, yeah :(

[PrimeTime]

The lineup is fine..Seriously, just get a freakin starter ,Hendry..

[PrimeTime]

The lineup is fine..Seriously, just get a freakin starter ,Hendry..

 

And I just looked at the Brewers staff..If healthy.. Sheets,Capuano,Gallardo,Supan,Bush

 

That is pretty damn solid,especially in the NL...I have no idea why Hendry is still tinkering with the offense..WE NEED PITCHING..Say Z or Lilly gets hurt, our staff looks like garbage...For the love of God, forget Roberts, you can trade Pie,Hart,Gallagher,Murton,Cedeno..Etc.. and get a legitimate #2 starter...This 4 and 5 of Dempster and Marquis really depresses me right now

[Keener98]

You guys are forgetting that Capuano was absolutely brutal last year. He is a huge question mark. Then you also add in Sheets missing his usual 1-2 months, and Suppan is an innings eater, but not really that good. You then have Dave Bush who well, sucks. Milwaukees pitching isnt really that good. Of course their offense makes up for that.

[XZero771679666304]

Funny that none of the NL Central teams seem to realise that the one thing that keeps each of them from dominance is a well rounded pitching staff.

 

 

The Brewers had the 3rd best FIP in the NL last year so it was really the fact they had the 3rd worst defense in the NL that held their pitching down. When you add in the fact they are in a hitters park vs an extreme pitchers park they had the 2nd or 3rd best pitching in the NL and they should be better this year.

 

 

That's really spinning it.

 

They should be better, especially if Hall goes back to third and Braun goes to left. But there's no way the Brewers have the 2nd or 3rd best staff in the NL. It's not like you guys had a bunch of 2/1 gb/fb pitchers who were simply brutalized by the defense. Aside from Sheets (when he actually takes the mound) and Gallardo, the Milwaukee rotation is really pretty mediocre. You've got a Injury-prone ace, a young #2, and three #5's. Maybe a decent #3 if Cappy bounces back, but that is far from a sure thing.

 

And the pen is a question mark.

[badnews]

Mike Cameron was a very good acquisition for the Brewers at that price, very good indeed. I think after a few months of Felix Pie and Sam Fuld we could be wishing we had went down that road.

 

I don't buy that Suppan, Bush, and Capuano are a back of the rotation that makes you step back and go "Whoa, time to give up the season." Even if they are healthy or whatever.

[TruffleShuffle]

i think rich hill's 2008 ERA just went up half a point

[anabiono]

someone go ahead and explain to rich hill that walking cameron is the best option for the upcoming season...

 

god...he eats him for breakfast

[WarningtrackPower]

If it can be argued that the Brewers have three no.5 pitchers at the back of their rotation, then I think it's also fair to suggest that maybe the Cubs, with Marquis and Dempster, have a couple of no.6 starters looking for rotation spots.

 

I'm just sayin'...

[CubinNY]

If it can be argued that the Brewers have three no.5 pitchers at the back of their rotation, then I think it's also fair to suggest that maybe the Cubs, with Marquis and Dempster, have a couple of no.6 starters looking for rotation spots.

 

I'm just sayin'...

Not if Marshall and Sean G. are still on the team.

[Ender]

The average #5 SP puts up over a 5.50 ERA, the average #4 SP is around a 5.00 ERA. The Brewers have three guys who are a #4 on a bad year and a #3 on a good year at the back of their rotation.

 

I cannot stress enough how much the defense mattered last season, using the plus/minus system if you swapped the Brewers and Cubs defense last year the Brewers give up 80 fewer runs putting them at 4.30 R/G in a hitters park good for 3rd in the NL (The Cubs being 2nd last year btw at 4.26 R/G). The difference between the Cubs and Brewers pitching last year was mostly just defense.

[CubinNY]

The average #5 SP puts up over a 5.50 ERA, the average #4 SP is around a 5.00 ERA. The Brewers have three guys who are a #4 on a bad year and a #3 on a good year at the back of their rotation.

 

I cannot stress enough how much the defense mattered last season, using the plus/minus system if you swapped the Brewers and Cubs defense last year the Brewers give up 80 fewer runs putting them at 4.30 R/G in a hitters park good for 3rd in the NL (The Cubs being 2nd last year btw at 4.26 R/G). The difference between the Cubs and Brewers pitching last year was mostly just defense.

Rationalization is a wonderful thing. Fact is, you cannot swap and statistical analysis doesn't work that way.

 

I think you should have stopped at "the Brewer's defense sucked last year and likely cost them games. If they play better defense and the pitching doesn't regress they should be better". I can buy that.

[Burtonbell]

Didnt see this posted, but here are the contract details:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AuJPdfxg.jnOA3qEbzggOisRvLYF?slug=ap-brewers-cameron&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Handlebar McSkullet]

my brewers fan friend didn't know what to think of this deal. I told him if you dont like it, then let me come over to your house a bludgeon you with a frying pan

[haltz]

The average #5 SP puts up over a 5.50 ERA, the average #4 SP is around a 5.00 ERA. The Brewers have three guys who are a #4 on a bad year and a #3 on a good year at the back of their rotation.

 

I cannot stress enough how much the defense mattered last season, using the plus/minus system if you swapped the Brewers and Cubs defense last year the Brewers give up 80 fewer runs putting them at 4.30 R/G in a hitters park good for 3rd in the NL (The Cubs being 2nd last year btw at 4.26 R/G). The difference between the Cubs and Brewers pitching last year was mostly just defense.

Rationalization is a wonderful thing. Fact is, you cannot swap and statistical analysis doesn't work that way.

 

I think you should have stopped at "the Brewer's defense sucked last year and likely cost them games. If they play better defense and the pitching doesn't regress they should be better". I can buy that.

Offhand dismissal of arguments is not a wonderful thing. How is it that the RA part of the ledger isn't mostly made up by a difference in defense? They can't actually swap defenses in real life? OK.

[Ender]

You cannot begin to discuss how good a pitcher actually is without removing the defense and park from the equation.

[XZero771679666304]

If it can be argued that the Brewers have three no.5 pitchers at the back of their rotation, then I think it's also fair to suggest that maybe the Cubs, with Marquis and Dempster, have a couple of no.6 starters looking for rotation spots.

 

I'm just sayin'...

 

Except that Marquis' numbers (both last year and career) are comparable to or better than Capuano, Suppan and Bush's. Dempster you may have a point with, but it remains to be seen whether he makes to the rotation.

 

And as for the defensive factor, both Lilly and Hill are fly ball pitchers, who probably didn't benefit much from the Cubs defense, which wasn't really much better (outside of Soriano's arm) than the Brewers' in the outfield.

 

Also working in the Cubs favor is that the miss a lot more bats than the Brewers' pitchers (aside from Sheets and Gallardo). And since none of them are Brandon Webb out there, they will probably give up more hits. Like I said, if the Brewers' staff was loaded with guys with a 2/1 gb/fb ratio guys, I could buy that moving Braun off the infield might dramatically improve the numbers, but that isn't the case. It sure isn't going to magically shave half a run off of everybody's ERA. Cameron will help, but shifting Braun to the OF will probably diminish it a bit.

 

The Cubs defense should be quite a bit better in 2008, Replacing Jones and Floyd/DeRo/Murton with Pie and Fukudome, two great defenders. The OF will have 3 plus arms. The defense on the IF could be better if Cedeno shows up, and the defense at catcher will be MUCH better. And being that even the worst case 4/5 starters (Marquis/Dempster) are decided gb pitchers, that will all help. The top 3 are all SO pitchers or both SO and gb (Z).

 

It's pretty far from a scientific analysis (though I don't put much faith in defensive metrics), but I feel pretty comfortable in predicting the Cubs' pitching will be markedly better than the Brewers' again on 2008.

[haltz]

Except that Marquis' numbers (both last year and career) are comparable to or better than Capuano, Suppan and Bush's.

Check the post above yours.

 

And since none of them are Brandon Webb out there, they will probably give up more hits.

Flyball pitchers give up less hits than groundball pitchers.

[UK1679666180]

Suppan and Bush both allowed 80+ XBHs, that has less to do with defense and park factors than just pitching poorly.

 

Capuano had some bad luck.

 

Marquis was very lucky last year.

[haltz]

I bet 78 of them were to Braun's right.

 

Seriously, though. They all have better DIPS numbers than Marquis. Suppan is the only one that's all that close.

[UK1679666180]

That's b/c Marquis was extremely lucky.

 

There were 568 balls put into play that were not (XBH or K) only 124 of them went for singles.

 

For Bush:

 

134 singles out of 530 chances.

 

For Suppan:

 

162 singles out of 620 chances.

 

Capuano:

 

114 singles out of 406 chances.

 

While Marquis was on one end of the spectrum and Capuano was on the other, Bush and Suppan were not out of the ordinary and pretty close to league avg.