2008 Hall of Fame - Goose Gossage elected

[OleMissCub]

My guesses are Gossage and Rice will get in.

 

Rice doesn't deserve it, but I don't mind Gossage. Rice will get in because he played in Boston, plain and simple. Check out his career win shares. 83.2 WARP3 in his 16 year career.

Check out these other HOF hitters that were contemporaries of his through their first 16 years:

 

Murray: 127.9

Yount: 118.9

Winfield: 112.0

Schmidt: 155.3

Jackson: 112.8

Molitor: 102.9

Brett: 116.9

Puckett (in just 12 years): 91.5

Sandberg (only 14 full seasons): 113.1

 

Other guys up for it this year:

Dawson had 97.5 in his first 16 years.

Raines: 115.2 in his first 16

 

Of course Dawson will get screwed as well. I think Gammons' big head must really hate the Cubs. Check out his ballot:

 

He voted for Gossage, Rice (huge shock I know), Blyleven, Trammell, Raines, & Morris...but not The Hawk.

Edited January 8, 2008 by OleMissCub

[rocket]

i can't believe how many people overestimate rice's dominance. he was pretty good, but most feared hitter my ass. it's a useless cliche boston homers throw around to make rice sound better than he really was.

[OleMissCub]

i can't believe how many people overestimate rice's dominance. he was pretty good, but most feared hitter my ass. it's a useless cliche boston homers throw around to make rice sound better than he really was.

 

Eastern sportswriters love to use the term "most feared hitter of his era"....ya right. From 75-86, 32 players had more IBB than Rice.

 

Plus, check out his Home/Road splits....they are horrific:

 

Home: .320/.374/.546, .920 OPS

Away: .277/.330/.459, .789 OPS

[DenverCubs]

My guesses are Gossage and Rice will get in.

 

Rice doesn't deserve it, but I don't mind Gossage. Rice will get in because he played in Boston, plain and simple. Check out his career win shares. 83.2 WARP3 in his 16 year career.

Check out these other HOF hitters that were contemporaries of his through their first 16 years:

 

Murray: 127.9

Yount: 118.9

Winfield: 112.0

Schmidt: 155.3

Jackson: 112.8

Molitor: 102.9

Brett: 116.9

Puckett (in just 12 years): 91.5

Sandberg (only 14 full seasons): 113.1

 

Other guys up for it this year:

Dawson had 97.5 in his first 16 years.

Raines: 115.2 in his first 16

 

Of course Dawson will get screwed as well. I think Gammons' big head must really hate the Cubs. Check out his ballot:

He voted for Gossage, Rice (huge shock I know), Blyleven, Trammell, Raines, & Morris...but not The Hawk.

 

Damn, is that for real? Jack Morris over Dawson. Though he probably voted for Trammell based on his impeccable record as the Cubs bench coach the last couple of years, right?

[OleMissCub]

Damn, is that for real? Jack Morris over Dawson. Though he probably voted for Trammell based on his impeccable record as the Cubs bench coach the last couple of years, right?

 

Yes indeed it is.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof08/news/story?id=3177278

[OleMissCub]

Goose gets in with 86% of the vote.

 

 

In honor of Goose....the greatest tirade against the media of all time (COMPLETELY NOT SAFE FOR WORK):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r75KU9reHAs

[daske17]

Chuck Knoblauch got one vote? I mean, seriously. :?

[tubbfan]

My question is: who the hell voted for Rod Beck, Travis Fryman and Robb Nenn (2 votes each); Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch and Todd Stottlemyre (1 vote each)? What a friggin' waste of a vote (kinda like voting for Dennis Kucinich, but that's another story altogether).

 

](*,)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Tim Raines only getting 24 percent of the vote is a travesty. It's further proof of the ignorance of the BBWAA.

[OleMissCub]

Tim Raines only getting 24 percent of the vote is a travesty. It's further proof of the ignorance of the BBWAA.

 

+1

[Burtonbell]

I just remeber Goose sucking big time when he came to the Cubs.

[OleMissCub]

Only 3 guys in the history of the game have 800 steals and 2600 hits: Ty Cobb, Rickey Henderson, and Tim Raines.

 

Raines is a HOFer. 24% is abysmal.

[CubsInNC]

I like this comment left by someone there:

 

 

jeremy517 (1 hour ago)

Goose pitched very well in 2007, so it is understandable that 10% of the voters feel he is now worthy after they felt that he was not worthy last year.

 

[bukie]

Blyleven deserves more love than he gets. Raines too. Gossage was borderline, but him getting in is nice.

[St.Paul Cub]

The Hall of Fame is becoming a joke.

 

I can understand some of the arguments for Rice, but am not really swayed.

 

Dawson deserves to be in. There was something like Dawson is one of only 3 or 4 players with over 2700 hits, 400 HRs, and 300 steals. The guy was also a great defensive OF. It's just a crock.

 

Morris was the winningest pitcher of the 80s and was great in the postseason, so I could see him being in.

 

Being in MN I've heard a lot of the pro-Blyleven and it's made me a believer. His biggest problem was being a great pitcher on a horrible team for most of his career. His stats in the W-L column are the only place he's short.

 

Tim Raines was one of the best players I'd ever seen for a good part of his career.

[Derwood]

blyleven robbed again

[CubsInNC]

Only 3 guys in the history of the game have 800 steals and 2600 hits: Ty Cobb, Rickey Henderson, and Tim Raines.

 

Raines is a HOFer. 24% is abysmal.

 

While I agree that Raines belongs in the Hall, why those numbers as an arbitrary cutoff point? And you forgot Lou Brock (938/3023). I mean, he just barely qualifies is that group. Heck, he's not in the group that starts at 810 steals and 2610 hits. But he's one of 7 (Brock, Cobb, Henderson, Matthews, Carey, Wagner) at the 700/2500 cutoff (still very elite company and HOFers). It's more a pet peave of mine, but I've never understood why any numbers are an arbitrary cutoff point.

 

Raines was a great player. He was outrun by Henderson and Coleman, and outhit by Dave Parker, Bill Buckner, Robbie Alomar, Dawson, Baines, Bonds, Boggs, Palmeiro, Biggio, Gwynn, Yount, Brett, Ripken, and Molitor. His teams were lackluster at best, and by the time he reached the series in 96, it was clear his career was winding down (basically over). He toiled in anonymity in Montreal until '91 when he went to CWS, and had 2 years before his legs/hamstrings tired out on him - neither of which was that great. By the time they saw him and might have cared, his brilliance was gone and they just saw him as a guy who just got hits, but didn't do it as well as the best players at the time. So, while I think he's Hall worthy, I can see why people who get paid to be homers, I mean the BBWAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa... don't vote for him.

[OleMissCub]

There was a Blyleven stat that one of the guys from BP was talking about on XM Radio a while back. He said that 60 times in his career, Blyleven went into the 7th inning having only given up 2 or fewer runs. In those games, he was 0-40....yes 0-40.

 

Dude truly played on some horrific teams and his legacy is getting punished for it.

[bukie]

Worst Hall of Fame arguments of 2008: http://vegaswatch.net/2007/12/worst-hall-of-fame-arguments-of-2008.html

 

Yes, folks, those are actual BBWAA voters making those arguments.

[Jon]

Worst Hall of Fame arguments of 2008: http://vegaswatch.net/2007/12/worst-hall-of-fame-arguments-of-2008.html

 

Yes, folks, those are actual BBWAA voters making those arguments.

4. Gerry Fraley, against Tim Raines

 

"Raines’ case was hurt by his reluctance to run in all situations, as Rickey Henderson did. Raines seemed at times too concerned about preserving his stolen-base percentage."

In his career, Tim Raines stole 808 bases, and was caught only 146 times, good for a pretty incredible 85% success rate. We are holding this against him. If he was caught 47 additional times, bringing him down to Henderson's 80.8% career success rate, maybe he'd warrant consideration.

 

This is the extent of Fraley's argument. There is no further mention of Raines in his article.

 

3. Phil Rogers, against Lee Smith

 

"I’m down to one this year, as Smith has been passed by Trevor Hoffman for the all-time save lead and my vote for Lee Arthur was based on his being the leader. Sorry, Lee."

Two years ago, Trevor Hoffman had 436 career saves, so Phil Rogers voted for Lee Smith to be elected to the Hall of Fame.

 

This year, Trevor Hoffman has 524 career saves so Phil Rogers is not voting for Lee Smith to be elected into the Hall of Fame.

 

Sorry, Lee.

Awesome.

 

I think at this rate, I might just have to give up baseball by the time I turn 35. My brain just can't take it.

[rocket]

There was a Blyleven stat that one of the guys from BP was talking about on XM Radio a while back. He said that 60 times in his career, Blyleven went into the 7th inning having only given up 2 or fewer runs. In those games, he was 0-40....yes 0-40.

 

Dude truly played on some horrific teams and his legacy is getting punished for it.

 

that can't be right, there has to be more to it than that.

[OleMissCub]

There was a Blyleven stat that one of the guys from BP was talking about on XM Radio a while back. He said that 60 times in his career, Blyleven went into the 7th inning having only given up 2 or fewer runs. In those games, he was 0-40....yes 0-40.

 

Dude truly played on some horrific teams and his legacy is getting punished for it.

 

that can't be right, there has to be more to it than that.

 

That's what the guy said, and he repeated it a couple of times because of what an insanely remarkable (and tragic) stat that is.

[bukie]

Blyleven had 60 career shutouts. Got to figure he won some of those.

[OleMissCub]

Blyleven had 60 career shutouts. Got to figure he won some of those.

 

Yes, I understand.

 

I'm not standing by the authenticity of the guy's statement, it's just what I heard.

[rocket]

There was a Blyleven stat that one of the guys from BP was talking about on XM Radio a while back. He said that 60 times in his career, Blyleven went into the 7th inning having only given up 2 or fewer runs. In those games, he was 0-40....yes 0-40.

 

Dude truly played on some horrific teams and his legacy is getting punished for it.

 

that can't be right, there has to be more to it than that.

 

That's what the guy said, and he repeated it a couple of times because of what an insanely remarkable (and tragic) stat that is.

 

so none of his 287 career wins came when he had given up 2 or fewer runs in the 7th inning? how did he amass that many wins then? either there's more to the stat, or the bp guy is lying.