Hendry: Sam Fuld is an untouchable

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

[

 

I just find it funny how those trades are talked about on a weekly basis on this board and gone over and over again, but nobody ever brings up how Hendry stole Michael Barrett from Billy Beane for nothing.

You have got to be kidding me? Beane traded garbage for Barrett so he could get Damien Miller to handle his young pitching staff.

 

Stole Barrett, that's a good one.

 

Yes, nobody is a bigger believer in how a catcher "handles pitchers" than Billy Beane. Obviously Miller made a huge impression, considering he let Miller walk after one year.

 

Barrett proceeded to hit .800+ OPS for us for a couple of more years while Miller was "handling pitchers" in Milwaukee.

Are you kidding? Seriously, Barrett spent all of two days on the A's roster during the off-season before he was traded to the Cubs. It was almost like a three-way deal. He was then released by the Cubs and resigned at a lower rate than he would have gotten during arbitration. The Cubs didn't have anything the nationals wanted.

 

Beane knew exactly what he was doing and who he was getting.

 

You are obviously trying to play devil's advocate here.

 

 

Actually, the real story is that Hendry initiated this trade and used Beane as the conduit because Hendry couldn't get a deal done one on one with Minaya, who was the Expos GM at the time. Hendry had tried for two years to get Barrett, to no avail.

 

Thanks for the inside.

 

As I eluded to before, I think Hendry is very good at setting things in motion to make deals, it is just the end result that is not always favorable.

[BigbadB]

Here are the Dodgers deadline deals in 2006. I would have taken any of the other deals over the one they made for Izturis. And Maddux was the best talent they received in any of those deals.

 

Elmer Dessens: Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimental

Julio Lugo: Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza

Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall: Dioner Navarro, Justin Ruggiano and Jae So

Greg Maddux: Cesar Izturis

[Bruce Miles]

[

 

I just find it funny how those trades are talked about on a weekly basis on this board and gone over and over again, but nobody ever brings up how Hendry stole Michael Barrett from Billy Beane for nothing.

You have got to be kidding me? Beane traded garbage for Barrett so he could get Damien Miller to handle his young pitching staff.

 

Stole Barrett, that's a good one.

 

Yes, nobody is a bigger believer in how a catcher "handles pitchers" than Billy Beane. Obviously Miller made a huge impression, considering he let Miller walk after one year.

 

Barrett proceeded to hit .800+ OPS for us for a couple of more years while Miller was "handling pitchers" in Milwaukee.

Are you kidding? Seriously, Barrett spent all of two days on the A's roster during the off-season before he was traded to the Cubs. It was almost like a three-way deal. He was then released by the Cubs and resigned at a lower rate than he would have gotten during arbitration. The Cubs didn't have anything the nationals wanted.

 

Beane knew exactly what he was doing and who he was getting.

 

You are obviously trying to play devil's advocate here.

 

 

Actually, the real story is that Hendry initiated this trade and used Beane as the conduit because Hendry couldn't get a deal done one on one with Minaya, who was the Expos GM at the time. Hendry had tried for two years to get Barrett, to no avail.

Did Beane not care who he was getting, or did he want Miller?

 

It seemed to me Beane didn't really care. As the 2003 season wore on, it also seemd the Cubs felt Miller was wearing down, too. I don't have the game logs with me, but IIRC, Bako may have seen his playing time increase down the stretch in '03. Billy and Jim get along famously. ("We just like a different cat," Jim said a few years ago. I guess those words are pretty true, eh?) Beane was doing Jim a favor by helping him get a player Jim wanted. The Cubs and A's had had a history of deal-making before the Barrett trade (Bellhorn, Hinske, Chiasson, et al).

[CubinNY]

 

It seemed to me Beane didn't really care. As the 2003 season wore on, it also seemd the Cubs felt Miller was wearing down, too. I don't have the game logs with me, but IIRC, Bako may have seen his playing time increase down the stretch in '03. Billy and Jim get along famously. ("We just like a different cat," Jim said a few years ago. I guess those words are pretty true, eh?) Beane was doing Jim a favor by helping him get a player Jim wanted. The Cubs and A's had had a history of deal-making before the Barrett trade (Bellhorn, Hinske, Chiasson, et al).

Wow, that's an interesting story. Especially, the "different type of cat" comment.

 

I stand corrected. Even so the Barrett that Hendry got wasn't the established player that he traded away. It was good trade.

 

Thanks Bruce.

[KingCubsFan]

Here are the Dodgers deadline deals in 2006. I would have taken any of the other deals over the one they made for Izturis. And Maddux was the best talent they received in any of those deals.

 

Elmer Dessens: Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimental

Julio Lugo: Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza

Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall: Dioner Navarro, Justin Ruggiano and Jae So

Greg Maddux: Cesar Izturis

At the time, Lugo was much better than Maddux. Not even a question. Hendrickson was better than Maddux that year. Dessens was more of a way to get rid of Perez.

[jersey cubs fan]

It seemed to me Beane didn't really care. As the 2003 season wore on, it also seemd the Cubs felt Miller was wearing down, too. I don't have the game logs with me, but IIRC, Bako may have seen his playing time increase down the stretch in '03. Billy and Jim get along famously. ("We just like a different cat," Jim said a few years ago. I guess those words are pretty true, eh?) Beane was doing Jim a favor by helping him get a player Jim wanted. The Cubs and A's had had a history of deal-making before the Barrett trade (Bellhorn, Hinske, Chiasson, et al).

 

Their preference for different cats makes them perfect trading partners.

 

 

 

All this talk about Hendry's individual deals makes me wonder why so many people try and judge him on any specific trade. The bottom line is Jim has been in the Cubs organization for 12 years, he's been GM for over 5 years now. His signature is on every level of the organization, from the farm up to the manager. And the bottom line is the Cubs have been hugely disappointing. The results on the field have not come close to matching the resources allocated to the product on the field.

[BigbadB]

Here are the Dodgers deadline deals in 2006. I would have taken any of the other deals over the one they made for Izturis. And Maddux was the best talent they received in any of those deals.

 

Elmer Dessens: Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimental

Julio Lugo: Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza

Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall: Dioner Navarro, Justin Ruggiano and Jae So

Greg Maddux: Cesar Izturis

At the time, Lugo was much better than Maddux. Not even a question. Hendrickson was better than Maddux that year. Dessens was more of a way to get rid of Perez.

 

Argue who was better all you wish. I don't care about that. Trading Maddux for Izturis was absolutely stupid.

[BigbadB]

All this talk about Hendry's individual deals makes me wonder why so many people try and judge him on any specific trade. The bottom line is Jim has been in the Cubs organization for 12 years, he's been GM for over 5 years now. His signature is on every level of the organization, from the farm up to the manager. And the bottom line is the Cubs have been hugely disappointing. The results on the field have not come close to matching the resources allocated to the product on the field.

 

Agreed. Heh. I wonder if Beane sending Bellhorn to Chicago was his way of attempting to show Hendry/MacPhail that there are other breeds of cats worthy of some love?

 

Mark Bellhorn, still to this day is the best lead off hitter the Cubs have had in the 2000's, and other decades as well.

[KingCubsFan]

Here are the Dodgers deadline deals in 2006. I would have taken any of the other deals over the one they made for Izturis. And Maddux was the best talent they received in any of those deals.

 

Elmer Dessens: Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimental

Julio Lugo: Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza

Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall: Dioner Navarro, Justin Ruggiano and Jae So

Greg Maddux: Cesar Izturis

At the time, Lugo was much better than Maddux. Not even a question. Hendrickson was better than Maddux that year. Dessens was more of a way to get rid of Perez.

 

Argue who was better all you wish. I don't care about that. Trading Maddux for Izturis was absolutely stupid.

Your opinion, and I don't totally disagree. I was just responding to your comment that Maddux was the best talent received by the Dodgers.

[CUBZ99]

It seemed to me Beane didn't really care. As the 2003 season wore on, it also seemd the Cubs felt Miller was wearing down, too. I don't have the game logs with me, but IIRC, Bako may have seen his playing time increase down the stretch in '03. Billy and Jim get along famously. ("We just like a different cat," Jim said a few years ago. I guess those words are pretty true, eh?) Beane was doing Jim a favor by helping him get a player Jim wanted. The Cubs and A's had had a history of deal-making before the Barrett trade (Bellhorn, Hinske, Chiasson, et al).

 

Their preference for different cats makes them perfect trading partners.

 

 

 

All this talk about Hendry's individual deals makes me wonder why so many people try and judge him on any specific trade. The bottom line is Jim has been in the Cubs organization for 12 years, he's been GM for over 5 years now. His signature is on every level of the organization, from the farm up to the manager. And the bottom line is the Cubs have been hugely disappointing. The results on the field have not come close to matching the resources allocated to the product on the field.

 

Another way to look at it, is that Hendry has been GM for 5 years and the Cubs have been to the playoffs 2 of those 5 years. Even if Hendry doesn't make any further moves this offseason, he still has a team that should compete for the NL Central next year (I know the Central is weak).

[Bruce Miles]

All this talk about Hendry's individual deals makes me wonder why so many people try and judge him on any specific trade. The bottom line is Jim has been in the Cubs organization for 12 years, he's been GM for over 5 years now. His signature is on every level of the organization, from the farm up to the manager. And the bottom line is the Cubs have been hugely disappointing. The results on the field have not come close to matching the resources allocated to the product on the field.

 

Agreed. Heh. I wonder if Beane sending Bellhorn to Chicago was his way of attempting to show Hendry/MacPhail that there are other breeds of cats worthy of some love?

 

Mark Bellhorn, still to this day is the best lead off hitter the Cubs have had in the 2000's, and other decades as well.

 

 

I liked Kenny Lofton.

[ctcf]

Bruce any worthwhile rumors from today?

[Bruce Miles]

Bruce any worthwhile rumors from today?

 

Getting caught up myself. Listened to our old friend Dusty this morning. Had a lunch session with Lou. Lou then did his media thing. Chased down the Murton-Teahen thing for you guys. :lol:

 

And we'll see Jim at 5:30. So in other words, no.

[Burtonbell]

You da man Bruce!

 

Thanks very much.

[CubinNY]

Bruce any worthwhile rumors from today?

 

Getting caught up myself. Listened to our old friend Dusty this morning. Had a lunch session with Lou. Lou then did his media thing. Chased down the Murton-Teahen thing for you guys. :lol:

 

And we'll see Jim at 5:30. So in other words, no.

I know it's not the Cubs, but what do you think about the Det. Florida trade? Pretty amazing.

[ctcf]

Bruce any worthwhile rumors from today?

 

Getting caught up myself. Listened to our old friend Dusty this morning. Had a lunch session with Lou. Lou then did his media thing. Chased down the Murton-Teahen thing for you guys. :lol:

 

And we'll see Jim at 5:30. So in other words, no.

 

Cool. Any comments on the potentially earth shattering Will Carrol chat from the Fukudome thread?

[CubColtPacer]

Wow, has this been an interesting thread or what. It's got a little bit of everything in it.

 

First, the Marquis thing. I don't think it's absurd at all to be happy with his production from last year.

 

1) Yes, he was only good for a couple of months. Does that really matter? He helps the team win a certain amount of games by pitching at an average level if he's inconsistent all season or if he's incredibly streaky as he showed he was last year. The overall numbers are what matters, and just because Marquis has proven that he's a first half pitcher over the years doesn't mean anything. The games in the first half mean just as much as the games in the second half.

 

2) Yes, he was only right about average as a starting pitcher (probably a little above if you give the proper weight to the 1 inning side session out of the bullpen he threw on the last day of the season to get ready to possibly pitch in the playoffs). If you had to sign a free agent though in the 2006 offseason, Marquis was about the lesser of evils. The only other effective pitchers that were signed were either refusing to sign with a non West Coast team (Maddux, Wolf) or Hendry tried to get but just missed out on (Meche)

 

Would you have been happier with Zito? Schmidt? Padilla? Suppan? Mulder? Adam Eaton? Woody Williams? All of those pitchers recieved multi-year deals at 6 million or more per year.

There was simply very little value to be had. If Marquis was in the top half of free agent pitchers and was not in the top half of contracts, I'd consider that to be better value than other teams received.

 

3) There are some who argue that the Cubs didn't need to go into free agency, that they could have just filled that with a rookie and saved the 7 million. My question is-who? Last year in spring training, that would have left the rotation as Z, Lilly, Hill, Guzman, Miller. Marshall wasn't ready to come up to the major leagues until the middle of May because of injuries. If Marquis had not been with the Cubs, Wade Miller would have been starting games for the Cubs until mid-may, and Marmol would have likely also been in the Cubs rotation for most of the season (to replace Guzman)). There was nobody else at Iowa that could reasonably start for the major league team until Gallagher later in the year. Marquis did what the Cubs asked him to do. He was an average pitcher who made every start and didn't miss time, which the Cubs would have had to fill with a pitcher who was not major league quality.

 

As for the general Hendry discussion, Hendry doesn't get enough credit for his overall success with trades during his tenure here. He has rarely given away anything of real value (how many ex-Cubs have had any kind of sustained major league success during his tenure?) and he has picked up many of the productive players on the team through trades. At the same time, it is understandable why Hendry doesn't get the credit he deserves on trades, and that is because of his dismal free agency record (mostly before 2007). He did so little good in free agency that it was expected of him that he find difference makers through trades, and he really hasn't done that at any kind of consistent pace. I tend to think that some of his smaller trades and free agency moves are given too much importance in the bad column, but at the same time they are magnified because of the inconsistent record of the team over the years. I can't blame anyone who says that there is good that has been done, but it simply hasn't been enough so far. Land another difference maker, and then the discussion could be re-visited.

[BigbadB]

All this talk about Hendry's individual deals makes me wonder why so many people try and judge him on any specific trade. The bottom line is Jim has been in the Cubs organization for 12 years, he's been GM for over 5 years now. His signature is on every level of the organization, from the farm up to the manager. And the bottom line is the Cubs have been hugely disappointing. The results on the field have not come close to matching the resources allocated to the product on the field.

 

Agreed. Heh. I wonder if Beane sending Bellhorn to Chicago was his way of attempting to show Hendry/MacPhail that there are other breeds of cats worthy of some love?

 

Mark Bellhorn, still to this day is the best lead off hitter the Cubs have had in the 2000's, and other decades as well.

 

 

I liked Kenny Lofton.

 

Don't get me wrong, Bruce. I liked Kenny Lofton, too.

 

Lofton leading off for the Cubs in 2003: .297 .354 .452

Bellorn leading off for the Cubs in 2002: .274 .389 .542

 

Bellhorn wins in a landslide. Of course, Lofton has always been a great lead off hitter, and Bellhorn, well, not so much.

[nilodnayr]

He isn't even a fourth outfielder. He's more of a fourth outfielder on a triple a team (ie 9th OFer). The guy has slugged all of 12 home runs in 3 minor league seasons after failing to slug 400 as a college senior with an aluminum bat!

 

fuld sucks people.

 

On their minor league careers Fuld has outslugged Reggie Willits, who spent more time at hitter-friendly parks than Fuld, and I keep seeing Willits bandied about in nice trade talks.

 

I'm not saying Fuld's great, I'm saying he could have value and I'm not going to totally dump on him before he craps out in the majors. There's a certain low level of play that will get teams interested, and that's when you can play center field, hang around a .720 OPS or so with a .350 OBP, steal 15-20 bases and some team decides they'd rather have that guy leading off than paying $15 million a year for someone slightly better.

I know we stopped talking about this long ago, but I just startedreading from the beginning. The problem with Jim saying this is that he looks like an idiot to his peers and will make them think they van take advantage of it. I was just about to say, if I were Reagins I would call Jim right after reading this to see what I could get for Willits.

[danonwaveland]

How did the Pierre trade end up being the "signature" bad trade? While that one was most certainly horrible, I like the Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis one better. Not only did the Cubs just give away Maddux to a team in the hunt for the playoffs, but when they realized just how bad Izturis was the following year, they traded him AND cash for a PTBNL.

 

And another one that some may like but I absolutely despise is the trade where the Cubs just gave away an outfielder (Jacque Jones) for crap, and paid cash to make that deal as well. What we end up with that deal is Jacque Jones and Will Ohman for a minor league reliever.

 

Should I bring up the Steve Tracshel trade, or have I just pissed off the entire board for reminding them again that the Cubs actually made this deal?

 

The Sammy Sosa trade still pretty much sucks, also.

 

Coulda been worse. . . at least he didn't trade for Alomar and Everett TWICE!

 

__________________________________________________

Sandberg>Mazeroski>Morgan

[hardcorecubfan]

why is this so astonishing, this organization once thought Cory (5-tool) Patterson to be untouchable.

 

the talent most of us doubt seem to surprise us and the ones we deem wunderkinds are duds. Maybe he'll surprise us

[Larry Horse]

I hate to say this, but I can actually see a sane thought process behind this.

 

Hendry, for whatever reason (i.e. scouts), has decided that Fuld actually has a chance to develop into something worthwhile... whether that be a good 4th outfielder, or a bad starting center fielder, or whatever... it'd be something with a lot more value once he does manage to develop.

 

Now, some other GM might've asked about Fuld, thinking he'd be nice roster filler for AAA, and been willing to offer Hendry peanuts for him. Hendry notices that it's entirely possible more people would come calling, not willing to give up anything of value for him.

 

Yeah, I'd call him untouchable too.

 

Think about it, on the off chance that Fuld has some huge fluke year filling in for an injured Pie, Hendry has already planted a seed that could get other GMs around the league thinking he's actually worth something (he meaning both Hendry himself and Fuld). Come this time next season, or even a few seasons from now, Hendry could stand to make a bit extra off the kid selling him off to some other unsuspecting GM.

 

The problem is, that wasn't actually Hendry's thought process... but maybe the new GM could benefit from it if Hendry isn't around long enough after Fuld's fluke year to hand him a 3 year contract worth a few mil a season.

 

You're giving Hendry waaaay too much credit.

[badnews]

Jason Marquis had something like a 5.40 ERA after the month of May. What a stud. He's a fine back of the rotation starter if we're talking about the 2002 Colorado Rockies.

[hardcorecubfan]

Here are the Dodgers deadline deals in 2006. I would have taken any of the other deals over the one they made for Izturis. And Maddux was the best talent they received in any of those deals.

 

Elmer Dessens: Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimental

Julio Lugo: Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza

Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall: Dioner Navarro, Justin Ruggiano and Jae So

Greg Maddux: Cesar Izturis

At the time, Lugo was much better than Maddux. Not even a question. Hendrickson was better than Maddux that year. Dessens was more of a way to get rid of Perez.

 

Argue who was better all you wish. I don't care about that. Trading Maddux for Izturis was absolutely stupid.

 

hat fact will never be argued by anyone on this board.