College Basketball 2007-2008

[SouthSideRyan]

Amidst this pointless pissing match, some minor news came out.

 

Jeremiah Rivers transfers from Georgeotown to IU. Kind of a meh commitment. He's another body, and provides a little class balance.(His scholly will open for class of '11)

 

He averaged 2.5 points, 2.4 rebounds and 1.0 assists in 18.6 minutes/game last year at Georgetown as a sophomore. IU fans on Peegs are claiming he's a lock-down defender. Anything to that? I would imagine there is considering his offensive #s.

 

What would worry me were I an IU fan would be that this puts them at 12 scholarships for '09. Until I heard any word from the NCAA regarding punishment for Sampson, I would've held that 12th scholarship out for Negedu.

 

Now Negedu is still making an official visit, so this makes me think either Crawford is on his way out, IU has a good idea that no scholarship reduction will be handed down(though what about ARP?), they know Negedu is 1 and done, or one of the '09s will be encouraged to go elsewhere.(The problem with that is the guy they could most afford to lose is Hulls is the local Indiana boy which I can't imagine would be good for recruiting in the future.)

 

Any IU fan insights?

[Guest]

Negedu shouldn't be a 1-and-done.

[Hosak8]

So I guess I'll contribute my "patently ridiculous, will definitely be mocked for being an overly sensitive Illini fan comment" here.

 

I'd rather be called not relevant (which will last for no more than 2 years) than:

 

1. Be a fan of a program about to be smacked by the NCAA because their former president wanted to hire a known cheater. (I am glad to see Crean cleaning things up because it's good for the B10)

 

2. Be a fan of a program who has had 2-3 years of good teams in the last 20 whose coach was blacklisted from D1 coaching for his douchebaggery and is also a known pedophile. (OK, he's not a pedophile, but he is in an awful lot of pictures drinking/with coeds for a 50 year old guy)

 

1. I think that we've already established that Illinois was relevant last year for losing a recruiting battle and fans behaving like total asshats because of it.

 

2. So you're angry that Pearl can pull more college tail than you?

Yep we lost him and IU got him. In order to get him they brought in Kelvin Sampson. How did that work out for them? You always have to be careful when you lie with snakes. But, in a few years I suspect you will know that.

 

Also the second thing you posted is terrible. Yeah I do have a problem with a married man, which he was at the time of those pictures being taken, chasing around college age girls. I guess you don't. Maybe you should worry about morals.

 

Funny how the self-righteous Illini fans are quick to point out Kelvin Sampson's dirty recruiting, yet hate Bruce Pearl for his exposing theirs. Illini fans are nothing, if not extremely hypocritical, I guess.

 

And, for the record, my second point was absolutely tongue-in-cheek, which I can totally understand you missing. I don't approve of him having an affair- IF he indeed has (which has never been substantiated.) So, until you whiney, sore-loser Illini fans can come up with something that resembles proof that Pearl has done somethng wrong, I will reserve my judgement of his character. Ooohh... big bad Bruce Pearl had his picture taken with his arm around a college girl.... I don't see the harm in that. It's not like he went all Larry Eustachy on some chick.

[Hosak8]

Amidst this pointless pissing match, some minor news came out.

 

Jeremiah Rivers transfers from Georgeotown to IU. Kind of a meh commitment. He's another body, and provides a little class balance.(His scholly will open for class of '11)

 

He averaged 2.5 points, 2.4 rebounds and 1.0 assists in 18.6 minutes/game last year at Georgetown as a sophomore. IU fans on Peegs are claiming he's a lock-down defender. Anything to that? I would imagine there is considering his offensive #s.

 

What would worry me were I an IU fan would be that this puts them at 12 scholarships for '09. Until I heard any word from the NCAA regarding punishment for Sampson, I would've held that 12th scholarship out for Negedu.

 

Now Negedu is still making an official visit, so this makes me think either Crawford is on his way out, IU has a good idea that no scholarship reduction will be handed down(though what about ARP?), they know Negedu is 1 and done, or one of the '09s will be encouraged to go elsewhere.(The problem with that is the guy they could most afford to lose is Hulls is the local Indiana boy which I can't imagine would be good for recruiting in the future.)

 

Any IU fan insights?

 

I don't believe that Negedu is a legit one-and-done type player. He's an explosive player who is extremely raw. Whoever gets him (IU, Tennessee, or Memphis) probably has at least a two year player.

 

All 3 programs have significant pros for Negedu to consider. If he's truly looking to be one-and-done, he's going to IU, imo.

[SouthSideRyan]

If Negedu is 1(or 2) and done, I have no clue why he'd go to IU, unless he doesn't think he'd get playing time as a freshman at the other options.(which would surprise me)

 

As far as Pearl goes,

 

Sigh.

 

The Pearl / Thomas incident

 

During the 1988-1989 basketball season, Pearl, then an assistant coach at the University of Iowa, was at the center of a recruiting scandal involving the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Both Illinois and Iowa were recruiting Deon Thomas, a top high school player from Chicago. Pearl lost this recruiting battle when Thomas committed to Illinois. Thereafter, Pearl relentlessly called the high school student over and over, and surreptitiously recorded a phone conversation with Thomas. Pearl attempted to get Thomas to admit that he had been offered an SUV and cash by Illinois assistant coach Jimmy Collins. Pearl then turned over the tapes to the NCAA, accompanied by a memo describing the events.[1]

 

When the NCAA investigated the alleged violations, they found Illinois guilty of no violations related to the Pearl/Thomas incident, according to the Chicago Sun Times.

 

However, Illinois was punished for vague violations of a policy known as "institutional control." Chuck Smart, the NCAA director of enforcement, could not explain the strange ruling. Smart said "We believe the Committee (of Infractions) did not say the allegations were false, but they did not find that they were true." Thomas's attorney responded: "When you bring an allegation and don't have the burden of proof, they have two words for that. It means, 'not guilty.' And when people on the enforcement staff shoot their mouths off and talk about the allegations still being true, it incenses me."

 

The Bruce Pearl-Deon Thomas incident cost millions of dollars to play out. Illinois spent a small fortune defending itself and the basketball program suffered greatly because of the sanctions imposed. Iowa certainly did not benefit from the negative publicity and Pearl skirted the brink of professional suicide.

 

An investigation conducted by now-SEC-commissioner Mike Slive and the university Chancellor demonstrated that Bruce Pearl might be the only one guilty of wrongdoing in this situation. Slive discovered gaps in the tape recording, which indicated deletions and/or creative splicing of the audio. Even with Pearl's editing, the tape "showed an obvious attempt by Pearl to lead Thomas to agree with a predetermined conclusion... Thomas never volunteered nor stated that he was offered or given anything on tape." (Chicago Herald & Register)

 

Furthermore, the grandmother of young Mr. Thomas alleged that Bruce Pearl offered her a new residence if Deon would attend Iowa, and that Illinois made no illegal offers.

[SouthSideRyan]

More on Bruce Pearl-Deon Thomas:

 

It is beyond the scope of this column to provide total detail of the whole sorry episode, but a few facts need to be mentioned. At first, Illinois behaved like the dutiful son by hiring NCAA lawyer Mike Slive to defend them. It had become the NCAA’s pattern to use Slive to go into an accused school, find evidence to incriminate that school, and then negotiate with their representatives on how they could penalize themselves (usually including the firing of the coaches involved). The idea was that the NCAA would become much more punative and accuse the offending school of “lack of institutional control” if it showed an unwillingness to submit to self-imposed sanctions. It was Slive’s job to save them from this terrible fate.

 

And when Slive, now commissioner of the SEC, read the transcript of the Thomas tape, he was convinced of Illinois’ guilt and recommended severe penalties. He became even more certain of the veracity of Iowa’s claims when coach Digger Phelps and star center LaPhonso Ellis of Notre Dame accused Illinois of illegalities in Ellis’ recruitment. But as Illinois Chancellor Morton Weir and Athletic Director John Mackovic continued to study the case, doubt crept into their minds.

 

Here is some of what they discovered:

 

1. While the transcript appeared to incriminate Thomas, there was evidence of gaps in the tape, indicating the possibility of deletions or creative splicing.

2. The tape recording itself was vague. It showed an obvious attempt by Pearl to lead Thomas to agree with a predetermined conclusion, and Thomas’ assertion that he was just agreeing with Pearl as if it were a joke could not be disproved. Certainly, Thomas never volunteered nor directly stated that he was offered or given anything on the tape.

3. An investigation of LaPhonso Ellis’ claims proved to be totally incorrect. Even a member of his own family said the claims were untrue. Eventually, Ellis publicly admitted to lying about the episode. One must wonder why he made the claims in the first place and whether his coach or anyone else made Ellis lie. Was there a conspiracy to incriminate Illinois for some self-serving reason? Did Bobby Knight’s earlier “whisper campaign” against Illinois influence Digger Phelps’ attitude toward Illinois, or did Phelps wish to damage Illinois for some personal reason?

4. Iowa paid for a friend of Deon Thomas to visit the Iowa campus for the purpose of getting him to help recruit Thomas to Iowa. Was this student, Reynoldo Kyles, thus a representative of Iowa’s athletic interest and therefore ineligible to be involved in recruiting?

5. Deon Thomas’ grandmother said it was Iowa who offered her a new residence if Deon would attend Iowa, and that Illinois made no illegal offers. By the way, at no time did the NCAA follow up on recommendations to investigate either Iowa or Notre Dame for possible violations.

 

These and other contradictory findings caused Weir and Mackovic to fire Mike Slive and hire their own lawyers instead. They knew they were on shaky ground with the NCAA, so they ran the risk of penalties approaching a “Death Penalty” if they could not prove Illinois’ innocence to the NCAA’s satisfation. Given the lessons learned by Illinois from earlier run-ins with the NCAA and their diligent efforts to comply with NCAA guidelines, including the hiring of people of integrity like Weir and Mackovic, Illinois would never have gone to the extreme of firing Slive unless they were 100% sure of their findings.

[SouthSideRyan]

After the allegation, Deon Thomas took a lie detector test in which he was asked a variety of questions about Illinois’ recruiting. He passed the test without a problem. For more information, see the 2/24/1990 edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Sports section page 1C. The examiner concluded that “[a]fter a thorough analysis of the polygraph record, it is the opinion of this examiner that (Thomas) told the truth through his examination and is not now intentionally withholding pertinent information.”

[Guest]

Meanwhile look at what USC can get away with.

[Flames24Rulz]

More on Bruce Pearl-Deon Thomas:

 

It is beyond the scope of this column to provide total detail of the whole sorry episode, but a few facts need to be mentioned. At first, Illinois behaved like the dutiful son by hiring NCAA lawyer Mike Slive to defend them. It had become the NCAA’s pattern to use Slive to go into an accused school, find evidence to incriminate that school, and then negotiate with their representatives on how they could penalize themselves (usually including the firing of the coaches involved). The idea was that the NCAA would become much more punative and accuse the offending school of “lack of institutional control” if it showed an unwillingness to submit to self-imposed sanctions. It was Slive’s job to save them from this terrible fate.

 

And when Slive, now commissioner of the SEC, read the transcript of the Thomas tape, he was convinced of Illinois’ guilt and recommended severe penalties. He became even more certain of the veracity of Iowa’s claims when coach Digger Phelps and star center LaPhonso Ellis of Notre Dame accused Illinois of illegalities in Ellis’ recruitment. But as Illinois Chancellor Morton Weir and Athletic Director John Mackovic continued to study the case, doubt crept into their minds.

 

Here is some of what they discovered:

 

1. While the transcript appeared to incriminate Thomas, there was evidence of gaps in the tape, indicating the possibility of deletions or creative splicing.

2. The tape recording itself was vague. It showed an obvious attempt by Pearl to lead Thomas to agree with a predetermined conclusion, and Thomas’ assertion that he was just agreeing with Pearl as if it were a joke could not be disproved. Certainly, Thomas never volunteered nor directly stated that he was offered or given anything on the tape.

3. An investigation of LaPhonso Ellis’ claims proved to be totally incorrect. Even a member of his own family said the claims were untrue. Eventually, Ellis publicly admitted to lying about the episode. One must wonder why he made the claims in the first place and whether his coach or anyone else made Ellis lie. Was there a conspiracy to incriminate Illinois for some self-serving reason? Did Bobby Knight’s earlier “whisper campaign” against Illinois influence Digger Phelps’ attitude toward Illinois, or did Phelps wish to damage Illinois for some personal reason?

4. Iowa paid for a friend of Deon Thomas to visit the Iowa campus for the purpose of getting him to help recruit Thomas to Iowa. Was this student, Reynoldo Kyles, thus a representative of Iowa’s athletic interest and therefore ineligible to be involved in recruiting?

5. Deon Thomas’ grandmother said it was Iowa who offered her a new residence if Deon would attend Iowa, and that Illinois made no illegal offers. By the way, at no time did the NCAA follow up on recommendations to investigate either Iowa or Notre Dame for possible violations.

 

These and other contradictory findings caused Weir and Mackovic to fire Mike Slive and hire their own lawyers instead. They knew they were on shaky ground with the NCAA, so they ran the risk of penalties approaching a “Death Penalty” if they could not prove Illinois’ innocence to the NCAA’s satisfation. Given the lessons learned by Illinois from earlier run-ins with the NCAA and their diligent efforts to comply with NCAA guidelines, including the hiring of people of integrity like Weir and Mackovic, Illinois would never have gone to the extreme of firing Slive unless they were 100% sure of their findings.

 

What happened with Digger and Illinois?

[SouthSideRyan]

Knight and Digger were buddies. Knight and Henson did not get along, and clashed for quite some time. Henson and Digger were both going hard after Ellis around the time of the Bruce Pearl fiasco. Digger capitalized on the opportunity.

[Guest]

Digger is a ****.

[SouthSideRyan]

Digger is a ****.

 

Well that was more concise.

[Hosak8]

Digger is a ****.

 

This should bring harmony and unity back this thread.

[Flames24Rulz]

Digger is a ****.

 

This should bring harmony and unity back this thread.

 

Glad I could assist :)

[Andy]

Digger is a ****.

And here I thought there was at least one ND guy people didn't hate.

[SouthSideRyan]

Digger is a ****.

And here I thought there was at least one ND guy people didn't hate.

 

He's the ND guy I hate.

 

Although I do think Brey is overrated. And man, I hated Chris Thomas post-freshman year.

 

Oh, and Grant Johnson.

 

But those aren't really the same types of hate.

[SouthSideRyan]

Personally, I'd like to know what was behind the ****.

[Slugger_16]

Personally, I'd like to know what was behind the ****.

 

I'm just waiting for Raisin to warn himself.

[imb]

this is a family site god dammit

[illiniguy]

After the allegation, Deon Thomas took a lie detector test in which he was asked a variety of questions about Illinois’ recruiting. He passed the test without a problem. For more information, see the 2/24/1990 edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Sports section page 1C. The examiner concluded that “[a]fter a thorough analysis of the polygraph record, it is the opinion of this examiner that (Thomas) told the truth through his examination and is not now intentionally withholding pertinent information.”

So what your saying is Illinois really did nothing wrong reguarding Deon Thomas and in fact Pearl was probably the one with questionable morals. Huh?

 

Personally I think the guy is a hell of a coach, but a giant pox as a person.

[Derwood]

watching Illinois and Tennessee fans fight about who is less lame is akin to Missouri and Kansas football fan fights last year

[CuseCubFan69]

watching Illinois and Tennessee fans fight about who is less lame is akin to Missouri and Kansas football fan fights last year

 

Yep, both are awesome. I enjoy reading the passion these guys have for their schools.

[mul21]

watching Illinois and Tennessee fans fight about who is less lame is akin to Missouri and Kansas football fan fights last year

 

Yep, both are awesome. I enjoy reading the passion these guys have for their schools.

 

Oh, because Syracuse is a college sports juggernaut.

[CuseCubFan69]

watching Illinois and Tennessee fans fight about who is less lame is akin to Missouri and Kansas football fan fights last year

 

Yep, both are awesome. I enjoy reading the passion these guys have for their schools.

 

Oh, because Syracuse is a college sports juggernaut.

 

If we only had a good football team that would be true!!!

 

Being from the northeast I enjoy reading about the midwest and other area battles. I wish we had some USC fans to mock raisin.

[Guest]

Being from the northeast I enjoy reading about the midwest and other area battles. I wish we had some USC fans to mock raisin.

 

Sponge Worthy?