Pitcher abuse - Zambrano

[bukie]

Now, on the whole I have thought Lou has done a good job not overworking the starters, or most of the staff (except maybe Marmol and Zambrano). Looking at BP's Pitcher Abuse Points, though, Carlos Zambrano is on top of the list. Not only on top of the list, but he has twice as many PAP as the 8th guy on the list. I realize Carlos has never been the most efficient pitcher in baseball, but I have to wonder if this is cause for concern going forward, especially after giving Zambrano the extension.

 

I also wonder how much he'll have left in the tank in the event the Cubs do make the playoffs.

 

EDIT: On the other hand, Zambrano does have fewer PAP than he has since 2003. And wow, were Wood and Prior abused in '03.

Edited September 20, 2007 by bukie

[Sammy Sofa]

This was cause for concern years ago.

[C.C.]

It's a concern but how do you avoid it? A lot of the time he's @ 100 pitches by the 5 inning.

[wolf stansson]

It's a concern but how do you avoid it?

By not giving him long term contracts.

[C.C.]

It's a concern but how do you avoid it?

By not giving him long term contracts.

 

Nicely played. :D

[nick23]

Thanks again Mr. Baker.

[jersey cubs fan]

I would say it's definitely a concern, although as I've said in the past, it's one I prefer to ignore and hope for the best.

[Mephistopheles]

pap =dont care

[Guest]

EDIT: On the other hand, Zambrano does have fewer PAP than he has since 2003. And wow, were Wood and Prior abused in '03.

 

03 was awful. Prior was abused more that year than Z has ever been, surprisingly.

[rawaction]

EDIT: On the other hand, Zambrano does have fewer PAP than he has since 2003. And wow, were Wood and Prior abused in '03.

 

03 was awful. Prior was abused more that year than Z has ever been, surprisingly.

 

But the Cubs were 4 outs away from the world series! Yeah, in hindsight, 2003 may have been the worst year in Cubs history.

[kente777]

EDIT: On the other hand, Zambrano does have fewer PAP than he has since 2003. And wow, were Wood and Prior abused in '03.

 

03 was awful. Prior was abused more that year than Z has ever been, surprisingly.

 

But the Cubs were 4 outs away from the world series! Yeah, in hindsight, 2003 may have been the worst year in Cubs history.

 

5 outs, but who's counting.

[rawaction]

EDIT: On the other hand, Zambrano does have fewer PAP than he has since 2003. And wow, were Wood and Prior abused in '03.

 

03 was awful. Prior was abused more that year than Z has ever been, surprisingly.

 

But the Cubs were 4 outs away from the world series! Yeah, in hindsight, 2003 may have been the worst year in Cubs history.

 

5 outs, but who's counting.

 

I knew that. Don't know why I typed 4.

[C.C.]

EDIT: On the other hand, Zambrano does have fewer PAP than he has since 2003. And wow, were Wood and Prior abused in '03.

 

03 was awful. Prior was abused more that year than Z has ever been, surprisingly.

 

But the Cubs were 4 outs away from the world series! Yeah, in hindsight, 2003 may have been the worst year in Cubs history.

 

5 outs, but who's counting.

 

I knew that. Don't know why I typed 4.

 

Hopefully the memory is fading.

[Cubfanintheknow]

When you're near the top of that list just about every year, sometimes you have to look more at the pitcher than the manager.

[Pushfrog98]

teach him to throw more strikes...

[MPrior]

pap =dont care

 

Honest question: why not? And is there a method of quantifying pitcher overuse that you prefer?

[The Voice of Reason]

Fergie Jenkins was ranked #1 in 1969. He went on to win 215 more games and pitch 3,500 more innngs after that year so it apparently didn't effect him that much.

[Sammy Sofa]

Fergie Jenkins was ranked #1 in 1969. He went on to win 215 more games and pitch 3,500 more innngs after that year so it apparently didn't effect him that much.

 

Though wouldn't it be safe to say that guys like that pitching today as opposed to 30-40 years ago are clearly the exception as opposed to the rule?

[Mizzou]

I don't put much stock at all into Pitcher Abuse Points. For one, it assumes that every pitcher should throw a maximum of 100 pitches, otherwise he's being abused. That's obviously not true. And secondly, throwing 110 pitches on 4 days rest is treated the same as throwing 110 pitches on 5 days rest when it clearly isn't.

[Ender]

There is a reason he is getting worse every year even though he's in his prime and this is probably it. You can do ok being on the top of that list here and there but pretty much all pitchers who top it on a regular basis burn out. See Hernandez, Livan; Schmidt, Jason; and Garcia, Freddy.

[Careless]

I don't put much stock at all into Pitcher Abuse Points. For one, it assumes that every pitcher should throw a maximum of 100 pitches, otherwise he's being abused. That's obviously not true. And secondly, throwing 110 pitches on 4 days rest is treated the same as throwing 110 pitches on 5 days rest when it clearly isn't.

People (you, in this case) need to understand that generalizations are not universals.

Also, there's no generalized hard cap, just a suggestion of where pitching more becomes more dangerous.