Tejada available this offseason?

[XZero771679666304]

Id trade pie, or marmol, or hill for tejada straight up.

 

youd be dumb if you didnt so i guess that makes some of you dumb

 

Really? His OPS is right around .800, trending downward, and he's making a ton of money.

 

Hill is a good SP making nothing, Marmol is a dominant reliever making almost nothing.

 

You could make a case for Pie as he hasn't done anything yet, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

 

But Tejada is going to be 32 next year, and if his decline continues to a sub-.800 OPS, he really won't have much value at all.

[Mephistopheles]

Stop with the personal attacks. I did NOT call anyone dumb. You explicitly called me dumb and the axe should be dropped on your posting privileges because of it.

 

And no I am not wrong. His deal is what? 13 million for 08 and 13 million for 09? We can easily have this money to spend and at the going market price for players it's a steal of a deal. We're not the Yankees, but we're not the Pirates. This deal can work. It's not a unmovable contract. If you think we can't make this deal then you would have to accept that we have NO funds to make ANY deals this offseason. If thats the case the problem becomes simply which is better: Hill + Theriot/Cedeno or Tejada + RP. The latter is better

[Mephistopheles]

Id trade pie, or marmol, or hill for tejada straight up.

 

youd be dumb if you didnt so i guess that makes some of you dumb

 

Really? His OPS is right around .800, trending downward, and he's making a ton of money.

 

Hill is a good SP making nothing, Marmol is a dominant reliever making almost nothing.

 

You could make a case for Pie as he hasn't done anything yet, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

 

But Tejada is going to be 32 next year, and if his decline continues to a sub-.800 OPS, he really won't have much value at all.

 

ton of money is not 13 mil these days. His EqA this season is .294 after three straight seasons of .300. I can't even begin to describe the offensive contributions of a .300 EqA SS. To put it into comparison, he's Derrek Lee playing SS.

[Guest]

Stop with the personal attacks. I did NOT call anyone dumb. You explicitly called me dumb and the axe should be dropped on your posting privileges because of it.

Semantics aside, you most certainly did call people dumb in this thread. If you see an axe swinging, it probably won't be aimed at others in this thread.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Id trade pie, or marmol, or hill for tejada straight up.

 

youd be dumb if you didnt so i guess that makes some of you dumb

 

 

:roll: Give me a break. Show me a GM that would deal either Marmol or Hill for Tejada at this point and I'll show you a GM that needs to be fired.

[Rob]

Stop with the personal attacks. I did NOT call anyone dumb. You explicitly called me dumb and the axe should be dropped on your posting privileges because of it.

Semantics aside, you most certainly did call people dumb in this thread. If you see an axe swinging, it probably won't be aimed at others in this thread.

 

What if I fly completely off the handle? I think I could probably do something worth banning me for.

[abuck1220]

Id trade pie, or marmol, or hill for tejada straight up.

 

 

no way. pie maybe.

[NCCubFan]

Tejada has, what, two more years on his current contract? While he is getting up there in age, I think it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find a better SS for 2008. A-Rod would be great, but he's just going to cost too much. I really don't think the Cubs will be able to sign him.

 

But if he's traded in the middle of his contract doesn't he have the right to declare for free agency?

I'm not sure about the new CBA, but it used to be that if a player was traded in the middle of multi-year contract he could demand another trade at the end of the year (not file for free agency). If the team wasn't able to trade the player then I believe he could become a free agent. And if a player demanded a trade under those terms I don't think he had any say about who he's traded to (unless his contract specifically contains such a provision).

[Mephistopheles]

oml this unbelievable. i cant believe some of you are all over hills hill so much

[illiniguy]

Is it possible that there will be any other younger shortstops come available this off season. I would be willing to part with any of the three brought up in this thread, but would prefer it to be for a shortstop that wasn't dropping in production levels.

[Coach C]

oml this unbelievable. i cant believe some of you are all over hills hill so much

 

Hill is a solid 2-3 starter. It makes no sense to trade away your 2nd or 3rd starter, especially when he's worth cheap.

 

Not to mention the fact that I wouldn't have any objections resigning Rich Hill.

[WrigleyField 22]

The biggest issue, it would seem is that we need to match salary. With the sale of the team adding a lot of salary may just not be realistic.

 

Tejada makes 13M. Lets just say we need to have at least 10M outgoing. The one thing this does, is require us to give up better younger talent than if we were offering a salary dump. Even if we gave up guys with one year left, its not that much better than the two years Tejada has.

 

Dempster: 5.5M 28/31 SV with the "closer" tag.

Jones: 5M He doesn't really do anything any of their other OF already do. Not much value there.

Eyre: 3.8M We would probably end up eating a lot of his contract in the trade, but they might take a chance and agree to take on a million.

Blanco: 2.8M Way overpaid, but maybe they want a backup catcher with Bako a FA?

 

Pick and choose to make the right salary.

 

Then we need to add actual value. Probably some young pitching and then a cheap position player. No Soto or Pie, so its pretty much Murton, Theroit, Fotenot, Cedeno.

 

Marshall, Jones, Dempster, Murton, lower level pitcher for Tejada and Markakis

 

 

 

Okay fine just Tejada. :)

 

Other possibility: Perhaps they don't want Jones, because, hey who needs that many mediocre OF on one roster? Maybe we sell high on Marquis and even net a decent prospect in the process. We already have a good staff and then we just fill the fifth spot with one of our young pitchers like Gallagher, Hart, etc or someone like Traschel who might sign a cheap or non-guaranteed contract. We also take Marshall out of the deal then.

[Backtobanks]

The biggest issue, it would seem is that we need to match salary. With the sale of the team adding a lot of salary may just not be realistic.

 

Tejada makes 13M. Lets just say we need to have at least 10M outgoing. The one thing this does, is require us to give up better younger talent than if we were offering a salary dump. Even if we gave up guys with one year left, its not that much better than the two years Tejada has.

 

Dempster: 5.5M 28/31 SV with the "closer" tag.

Jones: 5M He doesn't really do anything any of their other OF already do. Not much value there.

Eyre: 3.8M We would probably end up eating a lot of his contract in the trade, but they might take a chance and agree to take on a million.

Blanco: 2.8M Way overpaid, but maybe they want a backup catcher with Bako a FA?

 

Pick and choose to make the right salary.

 

Then we need to add actual value. Probably some young pitching and then a cheap position player. No Soto or Pie, so its pretty much Murton, Theroit, Fotenot, Cedeno.

 

Marshall, Jones, Dempster, Murton, lower level pitcher for Tejada and Markakis

 

 

 

Okay fine just Tejada. :)

 

 

Other possibility: Perhaps they don't want Jones, because, hey who needs that many mediocre OF on one roster? Maybe we sell high on Marquis and even net a decent prospect in the process. We already have a good staff and then we just fill the fifth spot with one of our young pitchers like Gallagher, Hart, etc or someone like Traschel who might sign a cheap or non-guaranteed contract. We also take Marshall out of the deal then.

 

That would be great if we could replace Murton in the deal with Cedeno. Marshall, Jones, Dempster, and Cedeno for Tejada sounds good, even if we have to add another low level arm to the deal.

[TruffleShuffle]

Id trade pie, or marmol, or hill for tejada straight up.

 

youd be dumb if you didnt so i guess that makes some of you dumb

 

You'd be dumb to trade Pie or Hill for a declining Tejada with a likely limited payroll.

 

You're dumb.

 

QFT

[Mephistopheles]

The utter lack of sanity and logic in this thread is appalling.

 

 

Over the course of the season the difference between Theriot and Tejada is at the worst 40 runs and probably closer to 50 runs. If we just get replacement level pitching we would break even and the definition of RP level pitching is a bit of a joke. Any pitcher bad or not and the worst potential outcome is by in large a 5 ERA. Add that 1.11 ERA difference and we're looking at a positive 25-35 run increase by the trade. There are plenty of cheap starters who could post a 5 ERA out there. Is a 30 run difference worth 13 million? you bet your ass it is.

 

Not to mention we have a replacement level guy in the wings and if Mark Prior...

 

Its the smart rational move, I expected everyone here to get it

 

 

Pie or Marmol would be gone in a heart beat. Easy

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

The utter lack of sanity and logic in this thread is appalling.

 

 

Over the course of the season the difference between Theriot and Tejada is at the worst 40 runs and probably closer to 50 runs. If we just get replacement level pitching we would break even and the definition of RP level pitching is a bit of a joke. Any pitcher bad or not and the worst potential outcome is by in large a 5 ERA. Add that 1.11 ERA difference and we're looking at a positive 25-35 run increase by the trade. There are plenty of cheap starters who could post a 5 ERA out there. Is a 30 run difference worth 13 million? you bet your ass it is.

 

Not to mention we have a replacement level guy in the wings and if Mark Prior...

 

Its the smart rational move, I expected everyone here to get it

 

 

Pie or Marmol would be gone in a heart beat. Easy

How is the weather up there?

[Illini Iceman]

The utter lack of sanity and logic in this thread is appalling.

 

 

Over the course of the season the difference between Theriot and Tejada is at the worst 40 runs and probably closer to 50 runs. If we just get replacement level pitching we would break even and the definition of RP level pitching is a bit of a joke. Any pitcher bad or not and the worst potential outcome is by in large a 5 ERA. Add that 1.11 ERA difference and we're looking at a positive 25-35 run increase by the trade. There are plenty of cheap starters who could post a 5 ERA out there. Is a 30 run difference worth 13 million? you bet your ass it is.

 

Not to mention we have a replacement level guy in the wings and if Mark Prior...

 

Its the smart rational move, I expected everyone here to get it

 

Pie or Marmol would be gone in a heart beat. Easy

 

I would do Marmol for Tejada, but would try to get them to also take Jones to offset some of the salary. While Marmol has been lights out this year, it is hard to predict what relievers will do year to year. This team badly needs the offensive upgrade because the chances of them contending again next year with a similar record as they have now is pretty slim. Tejada at short would allow them to put Pie in CF and not worry so much about him producing right away.

[Mephistopheles]

theres nothing wrong with trying to get them to take on salary it just isnt all that important

[davearm]

theres nothing wrong with trying to get them to take on salary it just isnt all that important

You gonna pick up that extra $30M out of your own checking account?

 

If not then kindly refrain from making ignorant and completely uninformed comments about the Cubs' payroll situation. You don't know what the budget is going to be next year, and neither does anyone else here. One thing we do know is that there aren't any significant contracts coming off of the books this offseason, or any time soon, making Tejada's contract a potentially major sticking point.

[TruffleShuffle]

The utter lack of sanity and logic in this thread is appalling.

 

yes, especially from yourself

[Mephistopheles]

Sorry Truffle, it is not me. This boards homer infatuation with several cub players is unhealthy. its one of the reasons i avoided this place for so long. homers. homers cant objectively grade their own team.

 

theyre not worth talking to so im going to stop on this topic. I cant believe how obsessed some people here are with Pie, Marmol and Hill. It's too bad.

 

Oh and DaveArm, the budget is meaningless. If you don't have the budget to add 13 mil fine, the discussion is moot. If you do have the budget then you have to make this deal. That's been the whole point the entire time. Anyways if you dont have the money to make this deal you dont have much if anything to spend this offseason. You can try to trade salary in the deal or do Pie + Hill and get the O's to pick up some of the contract to fit it in. That would still be an excellent move for the Cubs.

 

But no, people here wont understand it because Pie is the next Carlos Beltran...oops I mean Corey Patterson. There's a very small chance Pie develops into a force. There's a very small chance Hill develops into a force. Tejada is a force....at our biggest hole. Tejada is the answer to all of our problems. No doubt I'd prefer not to trade Hill, but in terms of value it's clearly a good trade. I jumped in this conversation when someone said they wouldnt trade any of Hill, Marmol or Pie for Tejada straight up. I said that was stupid, even with the money. Tejada's price for his services are actually below open market value no one's mentioned that. Of Hill Marmol and Pie the best value is Hill, followed by Marmol and Pie. Hill is miles ahead of Pie and Marmol. Regardless you have to take Tejada. Replacing Hill with Tejada makes the Cubs the best team in the National League next season without Mark Prior and a 5.00 ERA pitcher in the five slot. If the moneys there we should do it. With Zambrano's arm being a ticking time-bomb and Soriano and Lee on the wrong side of 30, we shouldnt be playing for after 2009 when Tejadas contract is up and Hill would still be here. Our system blows and we wont be in a good place in 2010+. Our window to win is 2007-2009.

[Guest]

KC - I take it you won't be using Granderson as your comp for Pie anymore. :)

[Mephistopheles]

best case scenario. ruben mateo is my classic comp. although mateo's skills >>>>>>>>>>>>> pies before he wrecked his leg up.

 

btw, all minor leaguers have best case scenario thats impressive. i mean lets talk about best case scenario from dopirak and harvey: 40 HR guys

[Rob]

Meph, why would we trade that much value when Renteria could probably be had for much less?

 

The other options out there are just too good to justify spending our resources in this wya.

[Mephistopheles]

Meph, why would we trade that much value when Renteria could probably be had for much less?

 

The other options out there are just too good to justify spending our resources in this wya.

 

Would he? With Boston picking up a third iirc of the 9 (?) mil next year and the Braves dreaming of contending why would they trade him unless they absolutely had to? They may (hello Marcus Giles)

 

If they had to, small market teams would be interested because of the 6 million cost and most of them could and would offer packages that would trump us, although Pie would interest the Braves. Marshall might. Marshall, Pie + for Renteria? I'd be down with that. I don't think people here would considering they wouldn't be down with Pie for Tejada.

 

One thing to consider is that a trade for Renteria involving Hill may not actually help the team, although it would "transfer" our baseball "assets" from pitchers to hitters -- which is good or bad depending on how you look at it. Pitchers usually command higher value when traded but pitchers also tend to get hurt and this leads to actually a lower expected performance.

 

Renterias having a great season this year, but he's EqA'd under .280 three of the last four seasons. Tejada hasn't since 2001. If I could trade Hill for Tejada I would. If I could trade Pie and Marshall for Renteria I would.