Tejada available this offseason?

[Guest]

can tejada play ss anymore?

[Mephistopheles]

can tejada play ss anymore?

 

Does it matter? Theriot can't play SS.

[davearm]

Sorry Truffle, it is not me. This boards homer infatuation with several cub players is unhealthy. its one of the reasons i avoided this place for so long. homers. homers cant objectively grade their own team.

 

theyre not worth talking to so im going to stop on this topic. I cant believe how obsessed some people here are with Pie, Marmol and Hill. It's too bad.

 

Oh and DaveArm, the budget is meaningless. If you don't have the budget to add 13 mil fine, the discussion is moot. If you do have the budget then you have to make this deal. That's been the whole point the entire time. Anyways if you dont have the money to make this deal you dont have much if anything to spend this offseason. You can try to trade salary in the deal or do Pie + Hill and get the O's to pick up some of the contract to fit it in. That would still be an excellent move for the Cubs.

 

But no, people here wont understand it because Pie is the next Carlos Beltran...oops I mean Corey Patterson. There's a very small chance Pie develops into a force. There's a very small chance Hill develops into a force. Tejada is a force....at our biggest hole. Tejada is the answer to all of our problems. No doubt I'd prefer not to trade Hill, but in terms of value it's clearly a good trade. I jumped in this conversation when someone said they wouldnt trade any of Hill, Marmol or Pie for Tejada straight up. I said that was stupid, even with the money. Tejada's price for his services are actually below open market value no one's mentioned that. Of Hill Marmol and Pie the best value is Hill, followed by Marmol and Pie. Hill is miles ahead of Pie and Marmol. Regardless you have to take Tejada. Replacing Hill with Tejada makes the Cubs the best team in the National League next season without Mark Prior and a 5.00 ERA pitcher in the five slot. If the moneys there we should do it. With Zambrano's arm being a ticking time-bomb and Soriano and Lee on the wrong side of 30, we shouldnt be playing for after 2009 when Tejadas contract is up and Hill would still be here. Our system blows and we wont be in a good place in 2010+. Our window to win is 2007-2009.

In what is alternate universe is budget meaningless? Budget is tantamount, and especially so in light of the ownership issues.

 

The Cubs might not be able to absorb Tejada's $13M, but $5M or whatever might just be manageable.

 

And that is precisely why the folks that are focusing on ways to balance salaries with the likes of Jacque Jones and Scott Eyre are on the right track here.

 

A Tejada trade has to make sense from a baseball perspective *and* a financial perspective. You're focusing only at the former, and ignoring the latter.

 

And it amazes me that you can't see the potential value (emphasis on potential) of Felix Pie, after witnessing the impact highly-ranked prospects like Braun and Pence have had for our rivals this year. It's totally plausible that Pie for Tejada looks terrible 2 months into 2008, if Pie hits the ground running and Tejada continues to slide. Not that the Hendry bashers need more ammo.

[Mephistopheles]

Davearm is an example, an example of people not getting it. If you can spend the money you make the trade. Did you close your eyes and not read the rest of my posts? I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

 

Like I said if we cant spend 13 million on him, then the discussion is pointless. Hill + 13 million to spend < Tejada. That's been my point the entire time. Jesus christ. Read. My. Entire. Posts!

 

JESUS

[Mephistopheles]

and re pence and braun.

 

Did you see how long the Brewers sucked to get their prospects? Did you ever think that there are teams who have to use their farm as players and not bargaining chips.....and these teams have been doing it for a decade and haven't produced much?

 

Tampa, Baltimore, Colorado, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and so on. You see I have this thing, called a level head. I know the limitations of Pie. I know his value. His value is not that high. His perceived value is higher than his actual value, so we'd be foolhardy not to trade him if we had a chance. You dont want to be gunshy with your big prospects. That's what gets you in trouble.

[davearm]

Davearm is an example, an example of people not getting it. If you can spend the money you make the trade. Did you close your eyes and not read the rest of my posts? I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

 

Like I said if we cant spend 13 million on him, then the discussion is pointless. Hill + 13 million to spend < Tejada. That's been my point the entire time. Jesus christ. Read. My. Entire. Posts!

 

JESUS

You're grossly oversimplifying the situation by asserting that either the Cubs can afford Tejada's salary or they can't. All or nothing. Black or white.

 

Meanwhile you're missing 13M shades of gray.

 

The people that are trying to find ways to partially offset salary get it. They understand that even if the Cubs don't have $13M to spend, the discussion is *not* pointless. They grasp that the discussion then turns to how much they *can* spend, and how to get to that number.

[Mephistopheles]

You're grossly oversimplifying the situation by asserting that either the Cubs can afford Tejada's salary or they can't. All or nothing. Black or white.

 

 

Are you kidding me? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? My lord. Quote of the Year. What other possibilities are there? I'd like to see what kind of Ryan Theriot you'd come up with.

[davearm]

You're grossly oversimplifying the situation by asserting that either the Cubs can afford Tejada's salary or they can't. All or nothing. Black or white.

 

it obviously is that simple. You either can or you cant...it isnt very complicated to grasp that. I guess its hard for you to realize that you can either spend the 13 million or not. Theres no middle ground. You can't sort of spend it.

 

If theres 13 mil to spend you make the deal. if there isnt you dont. its pretty damn simple.[/b]

You can't seriously be this dense.

 

We can pretty confidently say the Cubs do not have an extra $13M a year lying around. Apparently you believe the issue dies right there.

 

But the real issues is, can the Cubs find a way to shed enough of their existing commitments to take on a new commitment to Tejada. It's not a question of if they'll spend the money, but how.

 

Resource Allocation 101. It's pretty damn simple.

[Mephistopheles]

Let's see. YOU DID NOT LISTEN TO ME AND YOU DID NOT READ MY KENT DANG POST!

 

IT IRRITATES ME SO KENT DANG MUCH WHEN PEOPLE DONT READ MY POSTS AND IVE ALREADY ADDRESSED THEIR ARGUMENT. JESUS CHRIST.

 

READ!

 

 

You know considering this is a message board I would expect you to actually read things! I know that sounds outlandish but it helps.

 

 

 

 

I already said that Tejada > Hill + 13 million to spend.

 

 

READ MY POSTS IN THEIR ENTIRETY. IT HELPS!

Edited September 18, 2007 by Mephistopheles

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Didn't we learn from 2006 that getting replacement level pitching isn't quite as easy as it sounds? Even then, we've had amazing luck with the health of our pitchers, and trading away an arm that's as resilient as Hill invites even more injury risk to the staff going forward.

[Mephistopheles]

Didn't we learn from 2006 that getting replacement level pitching isn't quite as easy as it sounds? Even then, we've had amazing luck with the health of our pitchers, and trading away an arm that's as resilient as Hill invites even more injury risk to the staff going forward.

 

It is. Just because Jim Hendry's too stupid to find it isn't my fault. He pays 21 million for it. Theyre out there if you care to look. Crap we have one better already on payroll closing for our team. Demp > RP level.

 

So there. Not too hard.

 

Since my definition of RP level and RP level availability is questioned, then fine. Dempster + Tejada > Hill + 13M. And Dempsters spot in the bullpen isnt really an issue. We can replace that with lots of things.

[davearm]

Let's see. YOU DID NOT LISTEN TO ME AND YOU DID NOT READ MY KENT DANG POST!

 

IT IRRITATES ME SO KENT DANG MUCH WHEN PEOPLE DONT READ MY POSTS AND IVE ALREADY ADDRESSED THEIR ARGUMENT. JESUS CHRIST.

 

READ!

 

 

You know considering this is a message board I would expect you to actually read things! I know that sounds outlandish but it helps.

 

 

 

 

I already said that Tejada > Hill + 13 million to spend.

 

 

READ MY POSTS IN THEIR ENTIRETY. IT HELPS!

LOL. I guess the last ditch Hail Mary is to try and play this off as a reading comprehension problem.

 

First you said,

theres nothing wrong with trying to get them to take on salary it just isnt all that important

 

Then you continued with,

the budget is meaningless. If you don't have the budget to add 13 mil fine, the discussion is moot

 

Then you reinforced that nonsensical opinion with,

Like I said if we cant spend 13 million on him, then the discussion is pointless

If you'd pull your head out of the sand, you might just come to realize that adding 13M to the budget isn't the only viable option here.

 

I'm not holding my breath, of course.

Edited September 18, 2007 by davearm

[Mephistopheles]

heres also what i said

 

I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

 

bingo

[haltz]

I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

Why? Is this an ownership saga thing? I'm not really up to date on that, but they certainly have the cashflow.

 

That's not an unreasonable buy, acquiring a less volatile commodity to boot, when they'll probably be right back in the playoff sweet spot next year.

[davearm]

heres also what i said

 

I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

 

bingo

The 30 run upgrade is immaterial.

 

You should've just said, "I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season," and left it at that.

 

Therefore if a 30 run upgrade is out there to be had, then they're going to have to get creative freeing up several existing commitments first. This leads directly into the discussion of which guys we could foist off on Baltimore in the deal -- you know, the one you said "isnt all that important."

[Mephistopheles]

I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

Why? Is this an ownership saga thing? I'm not really up to date on that, but they certainly have the cashflow.

 

That's not an unreasonable buy, acquiring a less volatile commodity to boot, when they'll probably be right back in the playoff sweet spot next year.

 

youre misinterpreting the quote. maybe i didnt word it as well as i should have. i meant that i dont think that the cubs could spend 13 million dollars elsewhere and get 30 runs with it.

[Mephistopheles]

heres also what i said

 

I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season on a 30 run upgrade.

 

bingo

The 30 run upgrade is immaterial.

 

You should've just said, "I have my doubts that the Cubs can spend 13 million dollars this off season," and left it at that.

 

Therefore if a 30 run upgrade is out there to be had, then they're going to have to get creative freeing up several existing commitments first. This leads directly into the discussion of which guys we could foist off on Baltimore in the deal -- you know, the one you said "isnt all that important."

 

that statement did not mean anything about the cubs having or not having 13m to spend. i meant the cubs cant spend 13 mil elsewhere and get 30 runs with it. i didnt say we couldnt move salary, i just said that the 13 million contract shouldnt deter us if we can get him.

 

that said i dont think we could get the os to take on anyone. they dont really have to if they want to move tejada. there will be takers who give up just prospects.

[haltz]

youre misinterpreting the quote. maybe i didnt word it as well as i should have. i meant that i dont think that the cubs could spend 13 million dollars elsewhere and get 30 runs with it.

Ah, yes I took it to mean "they can't spend the money". Yeah, I would have my doubts as well. 30-run upgrades also don't usually come with two-year contracts in the FA market either.

[Mephistopheles]

at 72.2% of the market price too.

[Guest]

can tejada play ss anymore?

 

Does it matter? Theriot can't play SS.

 

when comparing options, it clearly does matter. does the 30 runs you are throwing out there count defense?

[hawkeyecub]

can tejada play ss anymore?

 

Does it matter? Theriot can't play SS.

 

Nope, you're right it doesn't matter at all. Not a bit.

 

Theriot isn't great defensively and his range isn't great. But Tejada is barely an adequate defensive shortstop now and doesn't project to get better over the next two years. It may not be significant enough to ignore the offensive upgrade, but to pretend it doesn't matter is just stupid.

 

And if he can't play SS and has to be moved to 2B, we end up with Theriot/Cedeno at short again and have Tejada take DeRosa's spot where there wouldn't be as much of an upgrade. Tejada's OPS is 16 points higher than DeRo's this year and he would make $10M more.

Edited September 18, 2007 by hawkeyecub

[Backtobanks]

I've got a good idea. Let's wait to see if Hendry picks up someone like Tejada or not and then bash him for whatever decision he makes.

[haltz]

Tejada is barely an adequate defensive shortstop now and doesn't project to get better over the next two years. It may not be significant enough to ignore the offensive upgrade, but to pretend it doesn't matter is just stupid.

According to UZR, he's about average. His worst year from 2003-2007 was -8 in 2003, and his best year was +7 in 2004. He was -3 last year, and was on pace for +3 this year right before the ASB. Dial's ZR had him at 0 last year. PMR thinks he was about -10 outs last year, and +10 outs in turning DPs.

 

The doesn't matter thing is semantics. Of course defense matters. Meph is saying that it doesn't matter because Theriot isn't a better defensive SS. It just reinforces Tejada's marginal value.

[Mephistopheles]

can tejada play ss anymore?

 

Does it matter? Theriot can't play SS.

 

when comparing options, it clearly does matter. does the 30 runs you are throwing out there count defense?

 

no because theriot is an inferior defensive player and i wanted to give you guys a chance in the argument.

[rawaction]

 

ton of money is not 13 mil these days. His EqA this season is .294 after three straight seasons of .300. I can't even begin to describe the offensive contributions of a .300 EqA SS. To put it into comparison, he's Derrek Lee playing SS.

 

Question. What's the difference between adjusted EqA for the season and adjusted EqA for all time? Because for all-time shows Tejada at .294, while the season shows .278. What makes choosing 1 better than the other?