first pitch swinging...

[questionmarkgrace]

it seems like we cant stop doing it. DeRosa, lee, ramirez. And whats worse is that these guys always come up with men on base and more often than not when they swing at the first pitch they kill the rally in one way or another. I'm not too sure there is ever a time any one should swing at the first pitch. So why r they doing it. I have maintained that our scouting department is [expletive] and that has something to do with it. But Ultimately its the players. I think these guys are confusing Lou's idea of attacking a good pitch with attacking the first pitch because they are not very patient with runners on.

[Derwood]

it always looks bad when they fly out or pop it out, but no one ever questions it when someone splits a gap or tags one for a homer

[Blizzau]

Rant?

[Abe Frohman]

If you have had 3 at bats and have only seen 4 pitches, you are not doing your job. Unless of course, you have multiple homers.

 

The Cubs have been pretty good at working pitchers this year (compared to last year).

[treebird]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

[windycityfan]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

 

:shock:

 

Anyone? Bueller?

[Abe Frohman]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

 

Probably because they were 1st pitch fastballs that they were sitting on?

[CuseCubFan69]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

 

Probably because they were 1st pitch fastballs that they were sitting on?

 

On the most part. You tell your pitchers to get ahead and what are they going to throw to do that? A fastball in most cases. Usually the best pitch your going to get is the the first pitch and thus the often swings. But, it's also best to do some situational hitting as some have mentioned the first 2 guys swinging at the first pitch, you have to let a few go by but what hurts the 3rd hitter in this process is that the pitcher knows this too and he grooves the first one to the third hitter thus putting him in the hole at 0-1 which puts the favor in the pitchers direction and the snowball continues to grow.

[UK1679666180]

The only time it becomes a problem is when it is not a FB and it is not in their hitting zone and they swing away. If it's a FB and it's where they want it, swing away, you might not see one there the rest of the game.

 

I only get mad when it's an off-speed/breaking pitch (unless hanging) or it's at the letters, below the knees, or on the corners. If that pitcher is struggling with command and it becomes a get me over FB, drive that ball.

[Abe Frohman]

I'm a big fan of Ted William's approach to hitting - and swinging at a 1st pitch fastball is something he only did to keep pitchers honest. His first at-bat of a game, 98% of the time he would not swing until he had seen a fastball.

 

What does that do? It makes the pitchers throw more pitches, and you see what different pitches he has. You draw more walks, score more runs, and hit better pitches.

 

I agree that sometimes swinging at the first pitch is going to result in something good, but being a complete hitter means you can (and have no fear of) hit with 2 strikes, and you can control the pitcher into throwing you that fastball again. It's all about getting a pitch to hit.

[BigbadB]

I'm a big fan of Ted William's approach to hitting - and swinging at a 1st pitch fastball is something he only did to keep pitchers honest. His first at-bat of a game, 98% of the time he would not swing until he had seen a fastball.

 

What does that do? It makes the pitchers throw more pitches, and you see what different pitches he has. You draw more walks, score more runs, and hit better pitches.

 

I agree that sometimes swinging at the first pitch is going to result in something good, but being a complete hitter means you can (and have no fear of) hit with 2 strikes, and you can control the pitcher into throwing you that fastball again. It's all about getting a pitch to hit.

 

I agree with this, but unfortunately, there isn't a single guy in the Cub line up that even closely resembles Ted Williams at the plate.

 

Pitchers often walked Ted Williams because Ted had an amazing plate presence, AND pitchers feared the alternative (grooving a pitch down the heart of the plate).

 

On a related note, why does it seem like Soriano always swings at the worst pitches of an at bat and lets the best pitches to hit hit the catcher's mitt?

[FergieJ31]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

 

 

Note: when putting first pitch in play. These numbers don't reflect first pitch strikes.

 

But quite often the first pitch a batter sees from a pitcher is the best one to hit in that AB. I don't mind seeing a power hitter swing at the first pitch once out of 3 AB's or so; I do have a problem seeing the majority of guys in the lineup doing it, especially at the top of the order (*cough* Alphonso *cough*).

 

You have to keep the opposing pitcher guessing. You can't ALWAYS take the first pitch or he'll throw more first pitch strikes. But you certainly don't want a large fraction of your batters swinging at the first pitch either. There's some optimal middle there.

 

For the people out there who are into game theory, I wonder what the optimal ratio is. My guess is about 35% for a power hitter, maybe 30% for everyone else. That is, I think 35% of the time a power hitter should have a green light on the first pitch.

[Warren Brusstar]

*waits for someone to complain that those OBP aren't any higher the batting averages*

[Electron Blue]

*waits for someone to complain that those OBP aren't any higher the batting averages*

 

you'd like our guys to walk more on the first pitch? ;)

[jyoung55]

it seems like we cant stop doing it. DeRosa, lee, ramirez. And whats worse is that these guys always come up with men on base and more often than not when they swing at the first pitch they kill the rally in one way or another. I'm not too sure there is ever a time any one should swing at the first pitch. So why r they doing it. I have maintained that our scouting department is **** and that has something to do with it. But Ultimately its the players. I think these guys are confusing Lou's idea of attacking a good pitch with attacking the first pitch because they are not very patient with runners on.

 

You lost credibility with me when singling out a player, in DeRosa, who has very good numbers in pitches seen per plate appearance and fail to mention the person most likely to swing at whatever a pitcher may roll up to the plate, in Soriano.

[Ender]

MLB in general has a .902 OPS when swinging at the first pitch compared to an .757 OPS overall.

[questionmarkgrace]

You lost credibility with me when singling out a player, in DeRosa, who has very good numbers in pitches seen per plate appearance and fail to mention the person most likely to swing at whatever a pitcher may roll up to the plate, in Soriano.

 

 

Thats just it though. Why is DeRosa who is normally patient been swinging at the first pitch for the last month? And Ramirez and Lee for their careers have been patient hitters so why are they doing the same? I wont single out Soriano because first pitch swinging has always been his m.o. Your probably not going to change that. But at least he is capable of doing what he did thursday.

[questionmarkgrace]

In the last five games we have recorded 20 outs when the first pitch is put in play. We averaged 4 outs a game on first pitch swinging alone. God knows how many men on base that is. I think the rest of the league is on to us.

[Guest]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

 

 

how do those numbers compare to other balls put in play on later pitches? Eliminating strike outs is always going to boost a hitters stats.

[Guest]

MLB in general has a .902 OPS when swinging at the first pitch compared to an .757 OPS overall.

 

 

again, I have to question the validity of that statistic - you can't strike out on the first pitch.

[rocket]

MLB in general has a .902 OPS when swinging at the first pitch compared to an .757 OPS overall.

 

 

again, I have to question the validity of that statistic - you can't strike out on the first pitch.

 

i think it's valid. for the most part, if a player swings at the first pitch, it's the exact pitch he's looking for in the location he wants it. that results in a harder hit ball.

[treebird]

WHEN PUTTING THE FIRST PITCH IN PLAY

 

derosa .352/.351/.481

lee. 367/.367/.600

aramis .348/.338/.565

 

 

how do those numbers compare to other balls put in play on later pitches? Eliminating strike outs is always going to boost a hitters stats.

 

you can look it up yourself (i'm too lazy to post it all here) but you'll find that putting the ball in play on an 0-0 count is basically in the middle. good counts like 3-1 and 2-0 present better results and 0-2 and 1-2 present worse results. it's basically what you'd expect. in the end, it really seems as though mlb hitters know what they're doing; if they swing at the first pitch, they're likely doing so for a good reason.