Z's Explanation

[3Dog]

Ballplayes are like hookers. They're at their best when they just shut up and produce for the money they're getting.

[Electron Blue]

fick·le (fĭk'əl) pronunciation

adj.

 

Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

 

yep, NSBB falls under this.

 

As do all message boards, if not the entire internet.

 

:shock:

 

A collection of inherently different opinions would seem instable when looking at the collective as a whole??? shocking. ;)

[Careless]

There is noway in hell you can call fans fickle with Z after seeing the way hes performed this year.

 

fick·le (fĭk'əl) pronunciation

adj.

 

Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

 

yep, NSBB falls under this.

 

Zambrano's fine guys. This place is so fickle.

No he's not fine. If he had a couple of bad outings in a row that might not be a cause for concern. But this has been going on over a month now, both before and after the extension. Things are not fine when your "ace" stinks the first two months of the season and then disappears again during the heat of a pennant race.

 

This is two things:

 

A. A Lie.

B. Irrelevant.

 

With respect to A, Zambrano's struggles have actually been going on for less than one calendar month.

If I were you, I'd say "wrong" and leave it at that.

I'm not. He's given up 7,6,4,5,8 runs in the last 31 days.

In only one of those games has he had a WHIP under 1.9 or so. He's had full and terrible month.

[3Dog]

Hey, Khemennu, better change that number of yours to 19.

[Mephistopheles]

There is noway in hell you can call fans fickle with Z after seeing the way hes performed this year.

 

fick·le (fĭk'əl) pronunciation

adj.

 

Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

 

yep, NSBB falls under this.

 

Zambrano's fine guys. This place is so fickle.

No he's not fine. If he had a couple of bad outings in a row that might not be a cause for concern. But this has been going on over a month now, both before and after the extension. Things are not fine when your "ace" stinks the first two months of the season and then disappears again during the heat of a pennant race.

 

This is two things:

 

A. A Lie.

B. Irrelevant.

 

With respect to A, Zambrano's struggles have actually been going on for less than one calendar month.

If I were you, I'd say "wrong" and leave it at that.

I'm not. He's given up 7,6,4,5,8 runs in the last 31 days.

In only one of those games has he had a WHIP under 1.9 or so. He's had full and terrible month.

 

and the first start was on August 8th. It's not September 8th.

[hardcorecubfan]

Says Cubs fans only think about themselves by booing him. Screw you Z

 

Good times.

 

Yea when he pointed at his head alot of people in the gamethread took it as "I know I sucked, my bad" but thats not what he meant at all. He said he doesnt deserve to be bood, and thought the Cubs had the best fans in baseball, but now he sees they only think of themselves. wow Just shut up and pitch Z, how bout you do that.

 

Hate to call you out on this but in the Trachsel thread didn't you say he was just inconsistent? Jason Marquis is inconsistent something is wrong when you sign a 90 million contract and can't win in over a month. wether it is a physical problem or mental a good benching is what he needs.

[Mephistopheles]

fick·le (fĭk'əl) pronunciation

adj.

 

Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

 

yep, NSBB falls under this.

 

As do all message boards, if not the entire internet.

 

and its better not to be. im not. i know what random fluctuations are and take them as just that.

[Keener98]

Says Cubs fans only think about themselves by booing him. Screw you Z

 

Good times.

 

Yea when he pointed at his head alot of people in the gamethread took it as "I know I sucked, my bad" but thats not what he meant at all. He said he doesnt deserve to be bood, and thought the Cubs had the best fans in baseball, but now he sees they only think of themselves. wow Just shut up and pitch Z, how bout you do that.

 

Hate to call you out on this but in the Trachsel thread didn't you say he was just inconsistent? Jason Marquis is inconsistent something is wrong when you sign a 90 million contract and can't win in over a month. wether it is a physical problem or mental a good benching is what he needs.

 

Z struggled terribly the first 2 months than got good for 2 months and now has been bad for 1 month, is that not inconsistency? Odds are still very much in his favor that he turns it around.

[Mephistopheles]

He's prone to bottoming out more than any other pitcher. Z has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in the league but the reason he hasn't is in his head. When he gets rattled, he overthrows his pitches which leads to walks and, sometimes, blowups. The reason it doesn't happen more often is because the talent he has allows him to escape jams more often than the average pitcher does.

 

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was. Here in his fifth season he has struggled, so he's always been prone to being bad. When in fact the first four years he WAS ONE of the best in the league. You're saying his struggles are because of his attitude when he's already shown an ability to succeed for four seasons with the same attitude, so it's quite apparent that his attitude have very little to do with his 4.35 ERA.

 

It probably has more to do with the health of his arm, his decrease in velocity this season and his struggling command which is more than likely a byproduct of his lack of arm health.

 

Of course, we can bitch and moan and say it's his attitude, when it's really not a problem and has never been a problem. It's his arm and health or nothing at all - just bad luck.

[Keener98]

He's prone to bottoming out more than any other pitcher. Z has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in the league but the reason he hasn't is in his head. When he gets rattled, he overthrows his pitches which leads to walks and, sometimes, blowups. The reason it doesn't happen more often is because the talent he has allows him to escape jams more often than the average pitcher does.

 

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was. Here in his fifth season he has struggled, so he's always been prone to being bad. When in fact the first four years he WAS ONE of the best in the league. You're saying his struggles are because of his attitude when he's already shown an ability to succeed for four seasons with the same attitude, so it's quite apparent that his attitude have very little to do with his 4.35 ERA.

 

It probably has more to do with the health of his arm, his decrease in velocity this season and his struggling command which is more than likely a byproduct of his lack of arm health.

 

Of course, we can bitch and moan and say it's his attitude, when it's really not a problem and has never been a problem. It's his arm and health.

 

His velocity has been fine for awhile. He consistently hit 96 yesterday.

[Bruno7481]

He's prone to bottoming out more than any other pitcher. Z has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in the league but the reason he hasn't is in his head. When he gets rattled, he overthrows his pitches which leads to walks and, sometimes, blowups. The reason it doesn't happen more often is because the talent he has allows him to escape jams more often than the average pitcher does.

 

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was. Here in his fifth season he has struggled, so he's always been prone to being bad. When in fact the first four years he WAS ONE of the best in the league. You're saying his struggles are because of his attitude when he's already shown an ability to succeed for four seasons with the same attitude, so it's quite apparent that his attitude have very little to do with his 4.35 ERA.

 

It probably has more to do with the health of his arm, his decrease in velocity this season and his struggling command which is more than likely a byproduct of his lack of arm health.

 

Of course, we can bitch and moan and say it's his attitude, when it's really not a problem and has never been a problem. It's his arm and health or nothing at all - just bad luck.

 

I think many would argue he has shown a lack of command his entire career, as evidenced by his walk totals, especially last year.

[Mephistopheles]

that's nice it's still down overall which is all that matters. he wasn't consistently hitting it as often as he did in the past though. i actually think his command shows more about his health than his velocity, well at least as much as

[Bruno7481]

that's nice it's still down overall which is all that matters. he wasn't consistently hitting it as often as he did in the past though. i actually think his command shows more about his health than his velocity, well at least as much as

 

I'm not discounting that there could be a health issue, but I don't think there is overwhelming evidence that there is one either.

 

If your just going by command as an indication of his health you could have this same dsicussion the past few years.

[Mephistopheles]

He's prone to bottoming out more than any other pitcher. Z has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in the league but the reason he hasn't is in his head. When he gets rattled, he overthrows his pitches which leads to walks and, sometimes, blowups. The reason it doesn't happen more often is because the talent he has allows him to escape jams more often than the average pitcher does.

 

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was. Here in his fifth season he has struggled, so he's always been prone to being bad. When in fact the first four years he WAS ONE of the best in the league. You're saying his struggles are because of his attitude when he's already shown an ability to succeed for four seasons with the same attitude, so it's quite apparent that his attitude have very little to do with his 4.35 ERA.

 

It probably has more to do with the health of his arm, his decrease in velocity this season and his struggling command which is more than likely a byproduct of his lack of arm health.

 

Of course, we can bitch and moan and say it's his attitude, when it's really not a problem and has never been a problem. It's his arm and health or nothing at all - just bad luck.

 

I think many would argue he has shown a lack of command his entire career, as evidenced by his walk totals, especially last year.

 

his command has been worse the last two seasons. last year he survived this year he hasn't. like i said it's either nothing or he's hurt. attitude has little to do with it. i still think its funny that i attacked the signing, got put down for it, now am defending him and get the same backlash. fickle indeed.

[Mephistopheles]

that's nice it's still down overall which is all that matters. he wasn't consistently hitting it as often as he did in the past though. i actually think his command shows more about his health than his velocity, well at least as much as

 

I'm not discounting that there could be a health issue, but I don't think there is overwhelming evidence that there is one either.

 

If your just going by command as an indication of his health you could have this same dsicussion the past few years.

 

im not saying there is one. im saying that if there's something causing his struggles its going to be his health and command, not his attitude. i do think there's a very high probability that there is a health problem. it can be something so small he doesnt even know about it

[Ender]

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was.

 

Maybe for full seasons but his monthly stats are just all over the place, a lot like Zito. Zambrano generally has 2-3 completely dominant best pitcher in baseball type months a year mixed with some pretty average to downright bad months.

 

ERA by month for the past 3 years...

 

4.31

2.40

5.79

2.11

1.74

4.19

 

5.35

1.90

1.96

4.15

3.63

4.03

 

5.77

4.72

2.53

1.38

7.06

 

Now compare to someone more consistent like Oswalt

 

3.25

3.20

1.40

2.03

5.81

2.93

 

2.76

3.49

3.72

3.09

3.38

1.85

 

3.43

3.29

3.55

4.41

1.14

[BigbadB]

fickle indeed.

 

The holier than thou routine really tickles your fancy, doesn't it?

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd never argue that Z isn't incredibly talented and can obviously be very dominant, but wouldn't issues like his (Ibelieve) increasing walk and home run totals over the last few seasons indicate that just maybe the idea that he'll "get better" so dramatically again and again isn't such a sure thing?

[badger1679666666]

I don't even want to read this thread, because I'm sure it's full of plenty of posts that are major idiots.

 

People that boo players based on performance are fickle moronic idiots. It's so stupid that it's beyond my comprehension how fans can cheer a player for two months and the minute they struggle they get booed not sporadically, but by the entire crowd.

 

It's classless, bushleague, philly type crap, and it doesn't surprise me that even people in here are ripping him. The guy has been our best pitcher BY far, for the last 4 years. He's built up some equity.

 

The fact that he actually cares, is his downfall. In a time with athletes that don't give a crap about fans and what they think, you could genuinely tell that Z cared about that reaction. It's actually refreshing to me. I agree 100% with everything he said, although fans might not be selfish, they are certainly hypocritical idiots. he signed for less money because he really wanted nothing more than to be a Cub for life. And with that he is rewarded by the crap yesterday.

 

The only reason players should be booed is for lack of effort. And no one wants to win more than Carlos. I'm embarrassed about what Wrigley is turning into.

[CUBZ99]

I don't even want to read this thread, because I'm sure it's full of plenty of posts that are major idiots.

 

People that boo players based on performance are fickle moronic idiots. It's so stupid that it's beyond my comprehension how fans can cheer a player for two months and the minute they struggle they get booed not sporadically, but by the entire crowd.

 

It's classless, bushleague, philly type crap, and it doesn't surprise me that even people in here are ripping him. The guy has been our best pitcher BY far, for the last 4 years. He's built up some equity.

 

The fact that he actually cares, is his downfall. In a time with athletes that don't give a crap about fans and what they think, you could genuinely tell that Z cared about that reaction. It's actually refreshing to me. I agree 100% with everything he said, although fans might not be selfish, they are certainly hypocritical idiots. he signed for less money because he really wanted nothing more than to be a Cub for life. And with that he is rewarded by the crap yesterday.

 

The only reason players should be booed is for lack of effort. And no one wants to win more than Carlos. I'm embarrassed about what Wrigley is turning into.

 

You make some decent points about Zambrano. If only you could put it into words without calling everyone that disagrees with you "major idiots" or "fickle moronic idiots".

[badger1679666666]

I don't even want to read this thread, because I'm sure it's full of plenty of posts that are major idiots.

 

People that boo players based on performance are fickle moronic idiots. It's so stupid that it's beyond my comprehension how fans can cheer a player for two months and the minute they struggle they get booed not sporadically, but by the entire crowd.

 

It's classless, bushleague, philly type crap, and it doesn't surprise me that even people in here are ripping him. The guy has been our best pitcher BY far, for the last 4 years. He's built up some equity.

 

The fact that he actually cares, is his downfall. In a time with athletes that don't give a crap about fans and what they think, you could genuinely tell that Z cared about that reaction. It's actually refreshing to me. I agree 100% with everything he said, although fans might not be selfish, they are certainly hypocritical idiots. he signed for less money because he really wanted nothing more than to be a Cub for life. And with that he is rewarded by the crap yesterday.

 

The only reason players should be booed is for lack of effort. And no one wants to win more than Carlos. I'm embarrassed about what Wrigley is turning into.

 

You make some decent points about Zambrano. If only you could put it into words without calling everyone that disagrees with you "major idiots" or "fickle moronic idiots".

 

I was referring to the fans that booed yesterday. Not anybody on this site.

[CDBears1259]

I don't even want to read this thread, because I'm sure it's full of plenty of posts that are major idiots.

 

People that boo players based on performance are fickle moronic idiots. It's so stupid that it's beyond my comprehension how fans can cheer a player for two months and the minute they struggle they get booed not sporadically, but by the entire crowd.

 

It's classless, bushleague, philly type crap, and it doesn't surprise me that even people in here are ripping him. The guy has been our best pitcher BY far, for the last 4 years. He's built up some equity.

 

The fact that he actually cares, is his downfall. In a time with athletes that don't give a crap about fans and what they think, you could genuinely tell that Z cared about that reaction. It's actually refreshing to me. I agree 100% with everything he said, although fans might not be selfish, they are certainly hypocritical idiots. he signed for less money because he really wanted nothing more than to be a Cub for life. And with that he is rewarded by the crap yesterday.

 

The only reason players should be booed is for lack of effort. And no one wants to win more than Carlos. I'm embarrassed about what Wrigley is turning into.

 

I guess I might be able to quibble with a couple of points, but in general, very well said.

[badger1679666666]

sorry about the tone of my post, I was just heated up.

[BigbadB]

You make some decent points about Zambrano. If only you could put it into words without calling everyone that disagrees with you "major idiots" or "fickle moronic idiots".

 

Zambrano can let his emotions get the better of him and deck Michael Barrett, but fans are supposed to sit on their hands the entire game and show zero emotion. Zambrano is the prince of emotion, in line to succeed Ron Santo as king.

 

Cardinal fans were dead wrong to boo any part of their 11 run blowout yesterday, too. If only the fans would have cheered louder at each fundamental blow up, the Cardinal players would have seized the moment and scored 12 runs to come back and win the game.

 

It doesn't work that way. Fans pay money to show some emotion at the game. They all prefer to cheer the whole game. And they don't boo when someone boots a ground ball. Boot 4 or 5 ground balls and yeah, you're going to hear displeasure. It's the nature of the beast.

[Backtobanks]

I don't even want to read this thread, because I'm sure it's full of plenty of posts that are major idiots.

 

People that boo players based on performance are fickle moronic idiots. It's so stupid that it's beyond my comprehension how fans can cheer a player for two months and the minute they struggle they get booed not sporadically, but by the entire crowd.

 

It's classless, bushleague, philly type crap, and it doesn't surprise me that even people in here are ripping him. The guy has been our best pitcher BY far, for the last 4 years. He's built up some equity.

 

The fact that he actually cares, is his downfall. In a time with athletes that don't give a crap about fans and what they think, you could genuinely tell that Z cared about that reaction. It's actually refreshing to me. I agree 100% with everything he said, although fans might not be selfish, they are certainly hypocritical idiots. he signed for less money because he really wanted nothing more than to be a Cub for life. And with that he is rewarded by the crap yesterday.

 

The only reason players should be booed is for lack of effort. And no one wants to win more than Carlos. I'm embarrassed about what Wrigley is turning into.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I still think that Zambrano got booed for losing his concentration and focus and not for performance or lack of effort. Booing may not be the answer, but professional athletes should be able to concentrate and focus on their task for 3 hours.