Zambrano 0-4 since signing

[UMFan83]

Yup lets lay all the blame on Z while nobody is talking about this pathetic excuse for an offense that our GM has assembled. Guess what guys, if Z goes 9 innings and gives up 2 runs, we still lose this damn game.

 

If Zambrano goes 9 innings and gives up 2 runs, I won't complain about him

 

Thats the point we still would have lost. Theriot was at fault for that big inning tonight, and our offense is to blame for getting punked by a pitcher who hadnt started in over 7 weeks. We have alot bigger things to worry about than Z, who pitches 1 game out of every 5, yet our offense goes out there every game.

 

Thats not the point. This thread is to complain about Z. He pitched really bad tonight (particularly the later half of his game). If you want to complain about the offense, go ahead and start another thread. But in this thread we are complaining about our $91 million pitcher who has a 7.38 ERA in August.

[Keener98]

Yup lets lay all the blame on Z while nobody is talking about this pathetic excuse for an offense that our GM has assembled. Guess what guys, if Z goes 9 innings and gives up 2 runs, we still lose this damn game.

 

If Zambrano goes 9 innings and gives up 2 runs, I won't complain about him

 

Thats the point we still would have lost. Theriot was at fault for that big inning tonight, and our offense is to blame for getting punked by a pitcher who hadnt started in over 7 weeks. We have alot bigger things to worry about than Z, who pitches 1 game out of every 5, yet our offense goes out there every game.

 

Thats not the point. This thread is to complain about Z. He pitched really bad tonight (particularly the later half of his game). If you want to complain about the offense, go ahead and start another thread. But in this thread we are complaining about our $91 million pitcher who has a 7.38 ERA in August.

 

No he didnt. If Scrappy Theriot wouldnt have botched the routine catch it would have been a good start.

[XZero771679666304]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

 

who do you start game 1 in the playoffs (assuming they're all equally rested)?

 

don't know about you...but i start big Z.

 

I'd start Hill.

 

I'd still start Z. He's been bad lately (and early in the season). But really all of our top 3 have been really inconsistent. And don't anyone try and say Hill hasn't been, because all you have to do is go over the game logs to see that he has been. As have Lilly and Zambrano.

 

But I still like Z's chances to dominate in any single game better than any other of our pitchers.

 

But that's not so say I would be emphatic in that decision.

[Mephistopheles]

what a worthless topic

 

Why don't you either add some actual substance to your posts or quit criticizing every post?

 

Do I need to add anything to this? It should be fairly obvious that my point was that it's a limited sample using a bad statistic. So it really is worthless. I didn't think I needed to point that out. That and I was in a hurry and didn't feel like posting anything else before class. Also, isn't it a little hypocritical for someone to tell someone to stop criticizing when in fact they're also just criticizing? I know you're a moderator, but I'm just saying... There was obviously substance to my post. The number of words do not define the substance of the post. This is one case where being bluntly honest achieves the effect of pointing something out statistically. My point was that a four game win loss sample for a pitcher is worthless. So, the topic "Zambrano 0-4 since signing" is worthless.

[Keener98]

what a worthless topic

 

Why don't you either add some actual substance to your posts or quit criticizing every post?

 

Do I need to add anything to this? It should be fairly obvious that my point was that it's a limited sample using a bad statistic. So it really is worthless. I didn't think I needed to point that out. That and I was in a hurry and didn't feel like posting anything else before class. Also, isn't it a little hypocritical for someone to tell someone to stop criticizing when in fact they're also just criticizing? I know you're a moderator, but I'm just saying... There was obviously substance to my post. The number of words do not define the substance of the post. This is one case where being bluntly honest achieves the effect of pointing something out statistically. My point was that a four game win loss sample for a pitcher is worthless. So, the topic "Zambrano 0-4 since signing" is worthless.

 

I agree and completly understood your point in you message. There really isnt more that needed to be said.

[Keener98]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

 

who do you start game 1 in the playoffs (assuming they're all equally rested)?

 

don't know about you...but i start big Z.

 

I'd start Hill.

 

I'd still start Z. He's been bad lately (and early in the season). But really all of our top 3 have been really inconsistent. And don't anyone try and say Hill hasn't been, because all you have to do is go over the game logs to see that he has been. As have Lilly and Zambrano.

 

But I still like Z's chances to dominate in any single game better than any other of our pitchers.

 

 

 

But that's not so say I would be emphatic in that decision.

 

Like you said they have all been inconsistent, and right now Hill is the hotter of the 2 that is why Id start Hill. Go with the hot hand, and even though tonights loss shouldnt be blamed on Z, Hill has been more dominant of late.

[Mephistopheles]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

[Mephistopheles]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

 

who do you start game 1 in the playoffs (assuming they're all equally rested)?

 

don't know about you...but i start big Z.

 

He's not saying he'd start Hill or Lilly. He's arguing that from April 1st to now the other two pitchers have been better. He knows that that doesn't necassarily mean that they will be better than Zambrano from tomorrow to November. Zambrano's career line probably gives him an edge in the eyes of Raisin.

[Warpticon]

what a worthless topic

 

Why don't you either add some actual substance to your posts or quit criticizing every post?

 

Do I need to add anything to this? It should be fairly obvious that my point was that it's a limited sample using a bad statistic. So it really is worthless. I didn't think I needed to point that out. That and I was in a hurry and didn't feel like posting anything else before class. Also, isn't it a little hypocritical for someone to tell someone to stop criticizing when in fact they're also just criticizing? I know you're a moderator, but I'm just saying... There was obviously substance to my post. The number of words do not define the substance of the post. This is one case where being bluntly honest achieves the effect of pointing something out statistically. My point was that a four game win loss sample for a pitcher is worthless. So, the topic "Zambrano 0-4 since signing" is worthless.

 

Here's a nice little guideline: if your flippant, condescending comment requires a subsequent paragraph long clarification, it probably wasn't as substantive as you believe it to be.

 

Also, being derisive doesn't make you any smarter or more correct.

[Mephistopheles]

It shouldn't have required one. That was my whole point. And CR only griped at me because he was a moderator. I'm sure if he wasn't a moderator he would have certainly gotten my point (and I'm sure he did get it but he knew his duty was to gripe)

 

So really it's just him doing his job and everyone clearly gets the point. So it worked.

[Flames24Rulz]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

 

Weren't you against re-signing Zambrano to that contract and didn't you want Carlos Silva to replace him in the rotation?

[rocket]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

 

Weren't you against re-signing Zambrano to that contract and didn't you want Carlos Silva to replace him in the rotation?

 

I don't know if he did, but if he did say that, what's that go to do with his statement?

[Flames24Rulz]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

 

Weren't you against re-signing Zambrano to that contract and didn't you want Carlos Silva to replace him in the rotation?

 

I don't know if he did, but if he did say that, what's that go to do with his statement?

 

Because he's saying that Hill and Lilly aren't better pitchers than Zambrano but he is saying that Carlos Silva would be a better move for the Cubs than re-signing Zambrano.

 

I do agree with him on the thread, though. Do we really have to overreact to something after every game? Zambrano didn't pitch great, but the offense didn't do anything to help him.

[rocket]

Because he's saying that Hill and Lilly aren't better pitchers than Zambrano but he is saying that Carlos Silva would be a better move for the Cubs than re-signing Zambrano.

 

I do agree with him on the thread, though. Do we really have to overreact to something after every game? Zambrano didn't pitch great, but the offense didn't do anything to help him.

 

Just because he thinks Z is the best pitcher on the team doesn't mean that he should think that Z's contract was a good idea. They're 2 separate things.

[imb]

Besides, he's just saying that Z pitching+Z with the bat is better overall than Hill/Lilly's total package.

[Mephistopheles]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

 

Weren't you against re-signing Zambrano to that contract and didn't you want Carlos Silva to replace him in the rotation?

 

I don't know if he did, but if he did say that, what's that go to do with his statement?

 

exactly. this is irrelevant.

[Sosa21MVP]

Big Z pitched plenty of awful games early in the season when he did not have the contract extension in hand so no, I can't see any correlation between a 0-2 record and the extension. This bad string of starts began prior to the extension.

 

Let's face it, Big Z is a little wild at times and never is going to be a consistent shutdown guy for an entire season. But he's still pretty good overall.

[soccer10k]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

 

who do you start game 1 in the playoffs (assuming they're all equally rested)?

 

don't know about you...but i start big Z.

 

I'd start Hill.

 

I'd start Lilly. I'd go Lilly, Zambrano, Hill, Marquis (I'm 99% positive that Lou would start Marquis over Marshall)

 

I would have the same rotation as you and have the most faith in Lilly right now to throw a good game.

[davearm]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

So Zambrano has been less effective, yet better?

 

I think we're going to need another longwinded rambling paragraph out of you to explain this one.

[soccer10k]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

So Zambrano has been less effective, yet better?

 

I think we're going to need another longwinded rambling paragraph out of you to explain this one.

 

I believe he's saying that how much better of a hitter Zambrano is over Hill and Lilly make up for him being a slightly worse of a pitcher this year.

[Guest]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

So Zambrano has been less effective, yet better?

 

I think we're going to need another longwinded rambling paragraph out of you to explain this one.

 

I believe he's saying that how much better of a hitter Zambrano is over Hill and Lilly make up for him being a slightly worse of a pitcher this year.

 

Zambrano is not that good of a hitter.

[soccer10k]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

So Zambrano has been less effective, yet better?

 

I think we're going to need another longwinded rambling paragraph out of you to explain this one.

 

I believe he's saying that how much better of a hitter Zambrano is over Hill and Lilly make up for him being a slightly worse of a pitcher this year.

 

Zambrano is not that good of a hitter.

 

I don't think so either. Just offering a guess as to what he was trying to say.

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

Zambrano is not that good of a hitter.

 

He's as good as we've got........

 

04/02 - 08/29      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP
Zambrano           67    8   17    1    0    2   24    5    0   23  0.254  0.254  0.358  0.612  0.357
Miller              4    0    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    0  0.250  0.250  0.250  0.500  0.250
Marquis            59    9    9    3    0    1   15    4    1   20  0.153  0.167  0.254  0.421  0.211
R Hill             50    0    7    2    0    0    9    5    1   28  0.140  0.157  0.180  0.337  0.318
Lilly              60    5    8    0    0    0    8    4    1   26  0.133  0.148  0.133  0.281  0.235
Marshall           27    0    2    1    0    0    3    0    1   12  0.074  0.107  0.111  0.218  0.133
Guzman              7    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    2  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000

Totals            274   22   44    7    0    3   60   18    4  111  0.161  0.173  0.219  0.392  0.256

[Careless]

if you think he's the cubs' best pitcher, you clearly didn't watch tonight's game.

 

you're going to judge him on one night? every pitcher has a bad night. does webb suck because the padres scored 5 off of him last night? he must not be the diamondback's best pitcher by your logic.

 

Zambrano hasn't been the best pitcher on the Cubs this season. Hill and Lilly have been better.

 

This isn't entirely true. Hill and Lilly have been more effective on the mound. I wouldn't say they've both have been better pitchers.

So Zambrano has been less effective, yet better?

 

I think we're going to need another longwinded rambling paragraph out of you to explain this one.

 

I believe he's saying that how much better of a hitter Zambrano is over Hill and Lilly make up for him being a slightly worse of a pitcher this year.

 

Zambrano is not that good of a hitter.

 

I don't think so either. Just offering a guess as to what he was trying to say.

The difference between "effective" and "good results" is luck. Two guys with equally good (identical) stuff/fields/fielders go out there, one guy will have a better game. He was more effective, but it's not because he's a better pitcher

 

But maybe I'm misinterpreting the non-spork lord

[soccer10k]

That would actually make more sense than what I guessed.