This Cub team compared to the last 10

[bukie]

The debate started in the game thread, and although I made a poll about it a couple months ago, that was more of a "best of". Where does this year's team rank comparatively to the other teams of the past 10 years? For me:

 

1. 2004 Cubs - Had the pitching and the hitting to be a 95 win team. Had the management to turn it into an 89 win team. Lineup of Sosa, Lee, Ramirez, Garciaparra, Alou, Barrett, Walker, Patterson, rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Clement and Maddux. Seriously, this team was stacked. Only weak spot was Hawkins closing when he shouldn't have been.

 

2. 2003 Cubs - Stacked pitching, decent hitting, one win away from a World Series.

 

3. 2001 Cubs - Sosa had a monster year, and was surrounded on offense by decent years from Matt Stairs, Rondell White, Ricky Gutierrez, and Eric Young. Actually in the top half of the NL offensively. Rotation was Wood, Lieber, Tapani, Tavarez, and Jason Bere, with Juan Cruz taking over admirably at the end of the year. Pen was fantastic except for Baylor's penchant to use Felix Heredia all too often.

 

4. 2007 Cubs - Pitching is really fantastic all-around, and is actually being helped by management instead of sabotaged as it was in the previous 3 entries. Offense is average, weak in HRs and BBs. Could be an 85 win team managed into a 90 win team before all is said and done.

 

5. 1998 Cubs - No idea how this team made the playoffs. They were somehow fantastic offensively with a squad of Sosa and Grace, surrounded by the corpses of Mickey Morandini, Gary Gaetti, Orlando Merced, Glenallen Hill, Lance Johnson, and Jeff Blauser. Their rotation was really bad, with just Kerry Wood being a bright spot, with Tapani, Trachsel, Mark Clark, and Jeremi Gonzalez somehow winning 70-odd games among them. Rod Beck closed with his 80-mph heater, and Terry Mulholland was the ace out of the bullpen.

[jjgman21]

I would flip flop 01 and 07. the starting pitching in 01 was general terrible outside of Wood and Leiber. had Mueller not gotten hurt, or McGriff not taken a month too long to waive his no trade clause I might think differently, but top to bottom I think this years team is better.

[Omar]

1. 2004 Cubs - Had the pitching and the hitting to be a 95 win team. Had the management to turn it into an 89 win team. Lineup of Sosa, Lee, Ramirez, Garciaparra, Alou, Barrett, Walker, Patterson, rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Clement and Maddux. Seriously, this team was stacked. Only weak spot was Hawkins closing when he shouldn't have been.

 

...

 

4. 2007 Cubs - Pitching is really fantastic all-around, and is actually being helped by management instead of sabotaged as it was in the previous 3 entries. Offense is average, weak in HRs and BBs. Could be an 85 win team managed into a 90 win team before all is said and done.

 

How many days was that 5-man rotation healthy in 2004? Wood and Prior made 43 combined starts... When they should've made around 64 combined if they were healthy.

 

2007 team is alright. If there's a strong point, its the rotation. Not so much their records because those only go so far. The numbers are great. It feels great once to wake up everyday and know you have a good shot at winning because of the pitchers. On the offensive side, I really expected a lot more homers as everyone else. I also expected a lot more walks with Piniella and former A's hitting coach, Gerald Perry. At least they're giving up a lot less walks.

[bhogg]

That 04 team was ravaged by injuries. If not for the injuries, I think we'd have seen the 95+ wins.

 

I don't know why people have such a problem with the current team. The pitching is solid and the offense is consistent. They consistently put up 5 runs without the reliance on home runs. That kind of offense is needed in the post season when homers really aren't going to be all that common in the cold chicago air.

 

In my mind, the 07 cubs could well be the best all around team we've had since 89 and maybe even 84.

 

The 01 team was not good. The 03 team was helped out by a pathetic division. Granted, they had the power pitching needed to make a playoff run and they did a super job taking advantage of that as well as the year-end hot streak.

 

 

In the end, I like the 07 team. It's a nice blend of good management, vets, rookies, pitching, and offense. They don't go to extremes in any one category. . . . consistentcy.

[bukie]

I'm not saying I don't like this year's team and how it's come together. I do think the 04 and 03 teams were better, though, if only because they had a better offense. This team really needs to be more selective at the plate than they have been. Like they were tonight.

[shnsajax]

This is the most versitle Cubs team in a very long time.

[circlecitycub]

This team reminds me so much of the 1989 team. There were a few really good players and then a bunch of nobodies coming out of nowhere to fill in the rest of that team.

 

Unfortunately I'm afraid that the 2007 team will end up just like the 89 team. Yeah, they won the division but were just outmatched vs San Francisco in the playoffs. I really like this current team to win the division I just don't think they can stack up against a really good team in a playoff series.

[David]

This team reminds me so much of the 1989 team. There were a few really good players and then a bunch of nobodies coming out of nowhere to fill in the rest of that team.

 

Unfortunately I'm afraid that the 2007 team will end up just like the 89 team. Yeah, they won the division but were just outmatched vs San Francisco in the playoffs. I really like this current team to win the division I just don't think they can stack up against a really good team in a playoff series.

 

Luckily, there really aren't any of those in the National League.

[circlecitycub]

This team reminds me so much of the 1989 team. There were a few really good players and then a bunch of nobodies coming out of nowhere to fill in the rest of that team.

 

Unfortunately I'm afraid that the 2007 team will end up just like the 89 team. Yeah, they won the division but were just outmatched vs San Francisco in the playoffs. I really like this current team to win the division I just don't think they can stack up against a really good team in a playoff series.

 

Luckily, there really aren't any of those in the National League.

 

If they had another solid starter I wouldn't be too worried but after Z and Lilly I don't trust anyone to start a playoff game. Especially with the way the offense can just shut down vs lefties.

 

Atlanta is the team that scares me right now. They have a nice lineup with Teixeira in the fold. Smoltz, Hudson, James and say goodnight Cubbies.

[BigSlick]

That 04 team was ravaged by injuries. If not for the injuries, I think we'd have seen the 95+ wins.

 

I don't know why people have such a problem with the current team. The pitching is solid and the offense is consistent. They consistently put up 5 runs without the reliance on home runs. That kind of offense is needed in the post season when homers really aren't going to be all that common in the cold chicago air.

 

In my mind, the 07 cubs could well be the best all around team we've had since 89 and maybe even 84.

 

The 01 team was not good. The 03 team was helped out by a pathetic division. Granted, they had the power pitching needed to make a playoff run and they did a super job taking advantage of that as well as the year-end hot streak.

 

 

In the end, I like the 07 team. It's a nice blend of good management, vets, rookies, pitching, and offense. They don't go to extremes in any one category. . . . consistentcy.

 

I wish we relied on home runs more. Don't talk about it like its a bad thing. The absolute best thing any hitter can do while in the batters box is hit a home run.

[BigSlick]

This team reminds me so much of the 1989 team. There were a few really good players and then a bunch of nobodies coming out of nowhere to fill in the rest of that team.

 

Unfortunately I'm afraid that the 2007 team will end up just like the 89 team. Yeah, they won the division but were just outmatched vs San Francisco in the playoffs. I really like this current team to win the division I just don't think they can stack up against a really good team in a playoff series.

 

Luckily, there really aren't any of those in the National League.

 

Luckily the playoffs are about 40% luck, as evidenced by the 2006 Cardinals.

[Fro]

Actually this team is better or a wash with the the 2003 team at every offensive position except CF/RF (and CF is the only massive difference, once Lofton came over).

 

Soriano is better than Alou was in 2003, 2007 Aram is better than 2003 Aram, and Lee is better than the bums we had at 1B in 2003. Theriot is better than K-Gonz and Derosa is better than Grudz. Damian Miller was offensively horrific in 2003 as well. I think this team's bench, once Ward is healthy is also a lot better.

 

I think it's better than the 2003 team considering that and the strength of the bullpen (which was the achilles heel of the 2003 team) and better defense. The current team doesn't have the huge top of the rotation the 2003 team did, but I think Marquis/Hill/Marshall have been more consistent than Clement/Estes.

[circlecitycub]

Actually this team is better or a wash with the the 2003 team at every offensive position except CF/RF (and CF is the only massive difference, once Lofton came over).

 

Soriano is better than Alou was in 2003, 2007 Aram is better than 2003 Aram, and Lee is better than the bums we had at 1B in 2003. Theriot is better than K-Gonz and Derosa is better than Grudz. Damian Miller was offensively horrific in 2003 as well. I think this team's bench, once Ward is healthy is also a lot better.

 

I think it's better than the 2003 team considering that and the strength of the bullpen (which was the achilles heel of the 2003 team) and better defense. The current team doesn't have the huge top of the rotation the 2003 team did, but I think Marquis/Hill/Marshall have been more consistent than Clement/Estes.

 

You're ignoring the strategy of playoff baseball. Runs are usually at a premium because the quality of pitching is so good. Look at the San Diego Series. They have very good pitching but a very poor offense. They took 2 of 3 that series including Z's gem against them.

 

This team will struggle to score if faced with a top pitcher or even with a middle of the road lefty. Right now I only trust Z and Lilly to do the same to the opposing team. Marshall could be OK but I wouldn't start Hill or Marquis in the post season as of today.

 

The 2003 team's starting pitching was so dominate that you can't just shrug it off so easily. Wood and Prior were just studs down the stretch and Woody was such a force in the NLDS. They will definitely be longing for performances like that if they hold on to make the post season this year.

Edited August 2, 2007 by circlecitycub

[ConstableRabbit]

Actually this team is better or a wash with the the 2003 team at every offensive position except CF/RF (and CF is the only massive difference, once Lofton came over).

 

Soriano is better than Alou was in 2003, 2007 Aram is better than 2003 Aram, and Lee is better than the bums we had at 1B in 2003. Theriot is better than K-Gonz and Derosa is better than Grudz. Damian Miller was offensively horrific in 2003 as well. I think this team's bench, once Ward is healthy is also a lot better.

 

I think it's better than the 2003 team considering that and the strength of the bullpen (which was the achilles heel of the 2003 team) and better defense. The current team doesn't have the huge top of the rotation the 2003 team did, but I think Marquis/Hill/Marshall have been more consistent than Clement/Estes.

 

You're ignoring the strategy of playoff baseball. Runs are usually at a premium because the quality of pitching is so good. Look at the San Diego Series. They have very good pitching but a very poor offense. They took 2 of 3 that series including Z's gem against them.

 

This team will struggle to score if faced with a top pitcher or even with a middle of the road lefty. Right now I only trust Z and Lilly to do the same to the opposing team. Marshall could be OK but I wouldn't start Hill or Marquis in the post season as of today.

 

The 2003 team's starting pitching was so dominate that you can't just shrug it off so easily. Wood and Prior were just studs down the stretch and Woody was such a force in the NLDS. They will definitely be longing for a performances like that if they hold on a make the post season this year.

 

I (unfortunately) completely agree

[TysonCBulls423]

Sometimes a homer can end a rally.

[AC000000]

I was just looking at those teams last night and I thought the same thing about the 98 team - how did they ever make the playoffs? That team looks terrible on paper. And I forgot how good the 2004 team was.

 

I think the current team is better than the 01 club, but we are a much weaker playoff team than 2003 was because we lack the dominant 2 or 3 starters that are so crucial in the playoffs. On the other hand, this lineup may be better suited for a playoff run because we have smarter hitters. They don't hit for as much power, but against great pitchers, I think our guys would have a better chance of scratching across 2 or 3 runs than a lineup with Sosa, Alou, and Patterson. Those guys seemed to hit very well off of weak pitchers, but were easily fooled by tough competition.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think I said it in the poll too, but that '04 team was the best Cubs team since '45 at least.

[David]

Sometimes a homer can end a rally.

 

This is probably one of my biggest pet peeves of ALL TIME.

 

I can't, for the life of me, understand how somebody can think that, say, a double with the bases loaded is better than a home run, because the grand slam would "kill the rally." And I've heard people say JUST THAT.

[Jazz]

this team is right under the 2004 team in terms of talent, and the pitching is the 3rd best behind the 2003 team. I think they will come out with the most wins though because of a better manager, a healthier team, significantly weaker competition (compared to the 95+ win teams of Houston and St. louis), and a bit of things going our way. I think this team will be a forced to be reckoned with in the playoffs because our best 4 starters can all be dominant, our bullpen has some strong points and will be better with the addition of Wood, and our offense can string together hits very very well.

[soccer10k]

I'd say it ranks third behind 03 and 04 and just ahead of 01.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think I said it in the poll too, but that '04 team was the best Cubs team since '45 at least.

 

That '45 team was pretty craptacular, even making it to the WS. Definitely a product of the homefront environment.

[SaorsaDaonnan]

The 2003 team's starting pitching was so dominate that you can't just shrug it off so easily.

 

 

DOMINANT

[SaorsaDaonnan]

...we are a much weaker playoff team than 2003 was because we lack the dominant 2 or 3 starters that are so crucial in the playoffs.

 

good job