Will Carroll - Pie on the trading block

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[Well then, please explain to me how a career .306 OBP isn't terrible. Aside from his inordinately high RBI total (poor measure of a hitter's worth) and decent amount of HR's, what exactly was Joe Carter good at?

 

Someone who 'lets the stats speak for themselves' probably has no idea what they're talking about.

 

Let's re-focus to the point of this convo:

 

The guy hit nearly 400 HRs. While this does not mean he was good, it does mean he was not terrible.

 

Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?

 

I never said he was terrible. I simply asked you to explain why he wasn't. So far, we have a link, 'the stats speak for themselves', and 'the guy hit nearly 400 HR's'. Sure, 400 HR's. Yay. Good total. However, the rest of the numbers that the guy put out in his career are really not very good. Some people would say, *gasp*, that a person who is not very good at baseball, is 'terrible'. Call it hyperbole, call it over-reaction, fine. But at the end of the day, all you are doing is arguing semantics and offering little in the way of analysis. Joe Carter was not a very good baseball player. Your condescension and insults do little to change this.

 

I'm not trying to re-start a pissing match, but Carter wasn't terrible. He wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. He had several good/very good seasons, including OPS+ of 130, 124, 119 and 113. Finished in the top 10 in MVP voting each of those years. No - he wasn't good at getting on base (which is a big problem), but he had a few years in which he was ok at it. And in those years, he had a really good SLG.

 

By today's standards, no he's not very good. But a) that's far from terrible, and b) when measured against his peers, he was pretty good.

 

Oh, and the next person that hires Carter to broadcast baseball games should be fired and then punched in the face.

[Garwilly]

I'd do Pie for Tejada. Although if we have a bonafide chance to get A-Rod, I'm not sure if we should invest in Tejada.

 

Aram, Arod, Tejada around the horn. Plug them in wherever.

[Roast]

Pie not going anywhere according to Hendry.

 

 

 

 

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/hendry-felix-pi.html

 

Although I don't trust Sullivan as far as I can throw him, I hear nothing but good news in that article.

 

Pie isnt going anywhere. While the cubs are happy with what they've got, Hendry is still looking. Wood will be back soon.

[OleMissCub]

I'd do Pie for Tejada. Although if we have a bonafide chance to get A-Rod, I'm not sure if we should invest in Tejada.

 

Aram, Arod, Tejada around the horn. Plug them in wherever.

 

Oh good lord, haha. That's a pipe dream of course, but an infield of Aram, Arod, Tejada, and Lee would probably the most powerful infield the history of baseball has ever seen.

[soccer10k]

meh Id rather have Hanley than Cabrera.

 

I'd guess that Hanley would cost just as much, if not more, than Cabrera because he's a SS.

[JGalt73]

On Tuesday:

 

Jim Hendry denies that he's made Felix Pie available, and states that he hasn't talked to Jon Daniels. He's not lying, but once you grasp the mechanics of how a trade is actually made, you'll realize that what Hendry says is not mutually exclusive from the reports that Pie was discussed. It's not just Hendry, Daniels, or any GM that's making calls. It's also a club's scouts, assistants, and even some owners get involved. In the course of those discussions, players get named and then discussed among everybody in the other organization. Teams try to read the other, like poker players. The Indians' DiamondView system is reported to actually have a system for collecting this type of information, with their staff supposedly recording mentions of players year round to try to divine who might be mentioned and who might actually be available. I can assure you that Pie was discussed by at least two teams that thought he might be included in a later offer—offers that never materialized.

[davearm]

That's a fair point that Carroll is making.

 

Jim Hendry could say to Joe assistant GM, "call down to Texas and see if they'll take Pie for Laird."

 

Hendry hasn't spoken to Daniels.

 

Hendry hasn't made Pie available.

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That's a fair point that Carroll is making.

 

Jim Hendry could say to Joe assistant GM, "call down to Texas and see if they'll take Pie for Laird."

 

Hendry hasn't spoken to Daniels.

 

Hendry hasn't made Pie available.

 

I don't think that's the situation Carroll is suggesting. If you tell your AGM to call and see if Texas would take Player X for Player Y, you've offered to trade Player X (and Hendry's statement yesterday would be a lie).

 

I'm guessing it's more subtle - AGM calls Texas to see if Player Y is available, they discuss who the Cubs would have to give up to get Player Y. Texas mentions Pie and AGM has been told that Pie is available at the right price, etc etc. It goes from there. The Cubs don't offer Pie, they don't call several teams asking "can we get X for Pie" or "what will you give us for Pie, but when they ask about several different players, maybe some of those teams ask for Pie in return and the Cubs don't flatly say "no - he's untouchable."

 

Just b/c Pie isn't being shopped doesn't mean he won't listen to offers that would include him.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

sounds to me like Will's just trying to cover his ass

[ConstableRabbit]

So this morning on Waddle and Silvy (ESPN 1000), Silverman was talking about how dumb Hendry was for not wanting to trade Pie.

 

"I mean, I'd do Pie for Torii Hunter, straight-up. Who cares if he's gone after the season -- we need to win now!"

 

later...

 

"Will the Cedeno/Murton fans just shut up? These guys are done. They're not the future. Sure Murton hit .297 last year but he's got no fundamentals. He can't throw, he doesn't run well, and he doesn't hit for power!"

 

 

I picked up the phone to call but decided it wasn't worth it.