Scott Linebrink Traded to the Brewers

[Soul]

Linebrink has been horrible on the road.

 

that's only this year.... last year he was fine on the road, and 2 years ago he was lights out. He's been one of the better middle relievers in baseball. It's a good pickup for the Brewers, but they had to pay a pretty steep price in Inman.

 

So was Scott Eyre.

 

Hasn't Linebrink led the league in holds for a couple years though? I know, holds aren't a sexy stat...

 

I dunno. Maybe the Padres know something, maybe they don't think Linebrink is a lock to return to his former good pitching.

 

I thought the Crew was decent in the BP anyway, although tonight they sucked. Wise has been sucking a bit, maybe that was the Crew's reasoning.

[TruffleShuffle]

Linebrink has been horrible on the road.

 

that's only this year.... last year he was fine on the road, and 2 years ago he was lights out. He's been one of the better middle relievers in baseball. It's a good pickup for the Brewers, but they had to pay a pretty steep price in Inman.

 

So was Scott Eyre.

 

yeah that's pretty much a terrible comparison. Linebrink was very good for three straight years... Eyre was mediocre every year of his career except one.

[cbbryan]

Bad trade for the Brewers, IMHO. While I like Linebrink alot, I wouldn't have traded Inman for him. Especially considering their bullpen is pretty good already.

[DiamondMind]

What a stupid trade for Milwaukee. It's almost as if they don't know how to trade FOR talent, hmm.

[Careless]

I really don't understand why the Brewers did this. They gave up one of their best prospects for a reliever? Okay

Not that the relievers in question are closely comparable, but that's exactly why people complained about the kendall trade. Especially before we learned that we got him almost free.

[Bote McBoteface]

While it's a stupid trade in the long run, it makes sense if you look at this season (kind of), and that's all that really matters to the Brewers right now.

[davearm]

Could this be a precursor to the Dye for Turnbow rumor from a couple days ago?

Or the Dunn for Wise + Gwynn + prospect rumor from a couple days ago.

 

:popcorn:

[Ender]

Linebrink had a 2.55 ERA two weeks ago so all the talk about his ERA seems a bit wierd to me. Inman is the real key to the deal, scouts seem to think he is a #4 or #5 starter, his stats say he is more than that. Whatever ends up being true decides how this deal ends up. The other 2 prospects are fringe players at best with the chance of being AAAA players.

[TruffleShuffle]

BP's analysis... edited so as not so include the whole thing since it's members' only:

 

And the Krivsky Goes To…Brewers General Manager Doug Melvin, who just made what might be the worst trade of the summer....

 

The first reaction on our internal mailing list was “What? The Padres are selling?”. But I tend to turn that sentiment around thusly: for Kevin Towers to break form and trade a near-term asset in the midst of a pennant race means that he simply got too much offer to refuse... frankly, if Towers turned around tomorrow and tried to trade Inman for a nine-week rental, he could probably come up with a player who is far more valuable than Linebrink.

 

 

This is why Kevin Towers is a good GM. Most GMs wouldn't have the balls to trade a proven, solid contributor in the midst of a playoff race, but he got good value for Linebrink and made the deal. I don't hate the deal from the Brewers' perspective; they haven't made the playoffs in 24 years, so it's hard to blame them for going all-out now. Inman is certainly not a can't-miss prospect, but they still paid a steep price for a moderate upgrade.

[Rob]

BP's analysis... edited so as not so include the whole thing since it's members' only:

 

And the Krivsky Goes To…Brewers General Manager Doug Melvin, who just made what might be the worst trade of the summer....

 

The first reaction on our internal mailing list was “What? The Padres are selling?”. But I tend to turn that sentiment around thusly: for Kevin Towers to break form and trade a near-term asset in the midst of a pennant race means that he simply got too much offer to refuse... frankly, if Towers turned around tomorrow and tried to trade Inman for a nine-week rental, he could probably come up with a player who is far more valuable than Linebrink.

 

 

This is why Kevin Towers is a good GM. Most GMs wouldn't have the balls to trade a proven, solid contributor in the midst of a playoff race, but he got good value for Linebrink and made the deal. I don't hate the deal from the Brewers' perspective; they haven't made the playoffs in 24 years, so it's hard to blame them for going all-out now. Inman is certainly not a can't-miss prospect, but they still paid a steep price for a moderate upgrade.

 

I thought Unfiltered posts were available to everybody, not just members.

[TruffleShuffle]

BP's analysis... edited so as not so include the whole thing since it's members' only:

 

And the Krivsky Goes To…Brewers General Manager Doug Melvin, who just made what might be the worst trade of the summer....

 

The first reaction on our internal mailing list was “What? The Padres are selling?”. But I tend to turn that sentiment around thusly: for Kevin Towers to break form and trade a near-term asset in the midst of a pennant race means that he simply got too much offer to refuse... frankly, if Towers turned around tomorrow and tried to trade Inman for a nine-week rental, he could probably come up with a player who is far more valuable than Linebrink.

 

 

This is why Kevin Towers is a good GM. Most GMs wouldn't have the balls to trade a proven, solid contributor in the midst of a playoff race, but he got good value for Linebrink and made the deal. I don't hate the deal from the Brewers' perspective; they haven't made the playoffs in 24 years, so it's hard to blame them for going all-out now. Inman is certainly not a can't-miss prospect, but they still paid a steep price for a moderate upgrade.

 

I thought Unfiltered posts were available to everybody, not just members.

 

you're right... i didn't realize it was unfiltered.

[soccer10k]

With all the young guys the Brewers have, I don't really think it's smart for them to make a move that only helps them this year and gives away part of their future. It would be one thing if they had a bunch of free agents or old guys on the decline and this was their last chance, but that's not the case at all.

 

It really sounds like the Brewers got screwed in this deal.

[Soul]

BP's analysis... edited so as not so include the whole thing since it's members' only:

 

And the Krivsky Goes To…Brewers General Manager Doug Melvin, who just made what might be the worst trade of the summer....

 

The first reaction on our internal mailing list was “What? The Padres are selling?”. But I tend to turn that sentiment around thusly: for Kevin Towers to break form and trade a near-term asset in the midst of a pennant race means that he simply got too much offer to refuse... frankly, if Towers turned around tomorrow and tried to trade Inman for a nine-week rental, he could probably come up with a player who is far more valuable than Linebrink.

 

 

This is why Kevin Towers is a good GM. Most GMs wouldn't have the balls to trade a proven, solid contributor in the midst of a playoff race, but he got good value for Linebrink and made the deal. I don't hate the deal from the Brewers' perspective; they haven't made the playoffs in 24 years, so it's hard to blame them for going all-out now. Inman is certainly not a can't-miss prospect, but they still paid a steep price for a moderate upgrade.

 

I thought Unfiltered posts were available to everybody, not just members.

 

you're right... i didn't realize it was unfiltered.

 

Well, it is a ballsy move. I also don't blame the Crew, they're extremely excited in Milwaukee and why shouldn't they be? They want to close the deal because they, much like us, know that opportunities don't come around all that often.

 

Towers certainly got great value, but the risk is there. Linebrink is an arm who might very well pitch great down the stretch, and it's not like the Padres are running away with a playoff spot. I understand they picked up a great haul, but that's for the future, and it would appear the Padres' future is right now. Maybe it works out great for both teams -- I hope not :)

[jjgman21]

Linebrink has been horrible on the road.

 

that's only this year.... last year he was fine on the road, and 2 years ago he was lights out. He's been one of the better middle relievers in baseball. It's a good pickup for the Brewers, but they had to pay a pretty steep price in Inman.

 

So was Scott Eyre.

 

yeah that's pretty much a terrible comparison. Linebrink was very good for three straight years... Eyre was mediocre every year of his career except one.

 

Linebrink had an ERA+ of 118 last year. so by your definition, 118 ERA+ or better is very good.

 

Eyre

2005 - 157

2006 - 137

[CoolHandLuke]

Even if Linebrink matches his best numbers over the final two months, how many marginal wins is a setup man worth?

 

This deal is absolutely terrible for the Brewers.

[TruffleShuffle]

Linebrink has been horrible on the road.

 

that's only this year.... last year he was fine on the road, and 2 years ago he was lights out. He's been one of the better middle relievers in baseball. It's a good pickup for the Brewers, but they had to pay a pretty steep price in Inman.

 

So was Scott Eyre.

 

yeah that's pretty much a terrible comparison. Linebrink was very good for three straight years... Eyre was mediocre every year of his career except one.

 

Linebrink had an ERA+ of 118 last year. so by your definition, 118 ERA+ or better is very good.

 

Eyre

2005 - 157

2006 - 137

 

oh, we're evaluating relief pitchers by ERA+ now? great idea.

[jjgman21]

Linebrink has been horrible on the road.

 

that's only this year.... last year he was fine on the road, and 2 years ago he was lights out. He's been one of the better middle relievers in baseball. It's a good pickup for the Brewers, but they had to pay a pretty steep price in Inman.

 

So was Scott Eyre.

 

yeah that's pretty much a terrible comparison. Linebrink was very good for three straight years... Eyre was mediocre every year of his career except one.

 

Linebrink had an ERA+ of 118 last year. so by your definition, 118 ERA+ or better is very good.

 

Eyre

2005 - 157

2006 - 137

 

oh, we're evaluating relief pitchers by ERA+ now? great idea.

 

you're right, I should have looked at IR/IS too.

 

Linebrink

2004 54/15

2005 37/11

2006 8/2

 

Eyre

2004 78/12

2005 42/9

2006 9/4

 

other than looking at how often runners score as a result of runners a relief pitcher is responsible for and how often runners score resulting from runners the pitcher is not responsible for, are there really any other stats we need to look at?

 

 

look, you can be trite about this, or you can be a man and admit you overstated your case.

 

Eyre went from a very good relief pitcher over the past couple of years to absolutely terrible. Linebrink went from an awesome relief pitcher over the past couple of years to mediocre. it's not such a terrible comparison because of something you have argued over and over. relief pitchers are unpredictable and often fall off the cliff suddenly.

 

now if we had a stat that might predict that Linebrink will continue his trend toward medicrity, we should call it out, and in fact, we do. his ability to strike people out has gone from very impressive to nonexistent.

[TruffleShuffle]

other than looking at how often runners score as a result of runners a relief pitcher is responsible for and how often runners score resulting from runners the pitcher is not responsible for, are there really any other stats we need to look at?

 

I think walks and hits per inning pitched can be a good stat. Like how often the guy prevents baserunners! Conveniently, we do have a statistic like that.

 

WHIP:

 

2003: 1.509 (Eyre) versus 1.397 (Linebrink)

2004: 1.329 (Eyre) versus 1.036 (Linebrink)

2005: 1.083 (Eyre) versus 1.059 (Linebrink)

2006: 1.484 (Eyre) versus 1.216 (Linebrink)

[jersey cubs fan]

other than looking at how often runners score as a result of runners a relief pitcher is responsible for and how often runners score resulting from runners the pitcher is not responsible for, are there really any other stats we need to look at?

 

I think walks and hits per inning pitched can be a good stat. Like how often the guy prevents baserunners! Conveniently, we do have a statistic like that.

 

WHIP:

 

2003: 1.509 (Eyre) versus 1.397 (Linebrink)

2004: 1.329 (Eyre) versus 1.036 (Linebrink)

2005: 1.083 (Eyre) versus 1.059 (Linebrink)

2006: 1.484 (Eyre) versus 1.216 (Linebrink)

 

Linebrink is the better of the two, and he has been. But he hasn't been lights out by any means. And Eyre at his best has hung in his company. The issue remains the guy is a non-elite reliever, which for some reason, is a grossly overvalued asset in baseball nowadays. I'd rather my GM overpay free agent relievers than trade prospects for them, but neither is a smart move.

[TruffleShuffle]

other than looking at how often runners score as a result of runners a relief pitcher is responsible for and how often runners score resulting from runners the pitcher is not responsible for, are there really any other stats we need to look at?

 

I think walks and hits per inning pitched can be a good stat. Like how often the guy prevents baserunners! Conveniently, we do have a statistic like that.

 

WHIP:

 

2003: 1.509 (Eyre) versus 1.397 (Linebrink)

2004: 1.329 (Eyre) versus 1.036 (Linebrink)

2005: 1.083 (Eyre) versus 1.059 (Linebrink)

2006: 1.484 (Eyre) versus 1.216 (Linebrink)

 

Linebrink is the better of the two, and he has been. But he hasn't been lights out by any means. And Eyre at his best has hung in his company. The issue remains the guy is a non-elite reliever, which for some reason, is a grossly overvalued asset in baseball nowadays. I'd rather my GM overpay free agent relievers than trade prospects for them, but neither is a smart move.

 

I guess my point was that without his decline this year, Linebrink would've been a pretty safe investment in the offseason. Eyre was clearly not a safe investment since he had all of one year with a good WHIP, and not surprisingly he's reverted to the mediocre pitcher he's been for the rest of his career.

[jjgman21]

other than looking at how often runners score as a result of runners a relief pitcher is responsible for and how often runners score resulting from runners the pitcher is not responsible for, are there really any other stats we need to look at?

 

I think walks and hits per inning pitched can be a good stat. Like how often the guy prevents baserunners! Conveniently, we do have a statistic like that.

 

WHIP:

 

2003: 1.509 (Eyre) versus 1.397 (Linebrink)

2004: 1.329 (Eyre) versus 1.036 (Linebrink)

2005: 1.083 (Eyre) versus 1.059 (Linebrink)

2006: 1.484 (Eyre) versus 1.216 (Linebrink)

 

 

 

yet another case of misuse of stats. we are not talking about predicting future performance. we are evaluating past performance. in evaluating past performance, these stats in large part lose their meaning because what is important is how often runners score as a result of a pitchers performance.

 

when viewed in this light, it is clear that Scott Eyre was a very good relief pitcher for a couple of years. I see you have made your choice, so I'm done with this discussion.

[sethuel1]

other than looking at how often runners score as a result of runners a relief pitcher is responsible for and how often runners score resulting from runners the pitcher is not responsible for, are there really any other stats we need to look at?

 

I think walks and hits per inning pitched can be a good stat. Like how often the guy prevents baserunners! Conveniently, we do have a statistic like that.

 

WHIP:

 

2003: 1.509 (Eyre) versus 1.397 (Linebrink)

2004: 1.329 (Eyre) versus 1.036 (Linebrink)

2005: 1.083 (Eyre) versus 1.059 (Linebrink)

2006: 1.484 (Eyre) versus 1.216 (Linebrink)

 

 

 

yet another case of misuse of stats. we are not talking about predicting future performance. we are evaluating past performance. in evaluating past performance, these stats in large part lose their meaning because what is important is how often runners score as a result of a pitchers performance.

 

when viewed in this light, it is clear that Scott Eyre was a very good relief pitcher for a couple of years. I see you have made your choice, so I'm done with this discussion.

 

I decide that Truffle wins because you quit.

[jersey cubs fan]

yet another case of misuse of stats. we are not talking about predicting future performance. we are evaluating past performance. in evaluating past performance, these stats in large part lose their meaning because what is important is how often runners score as a result of a pitchers performance.

 

when viewed in this light, it is clear that Scott Eyre was a very good relief pitcher for a couple of years. I see you have made your choice, so I'm done with this discussion.

 

I don't understand your reasoning at all.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

we are not talking about predicting future performance.

 

Actually, that's exactly what they were talking about when you entered the discussion. The comparison was between Eyre and Linebrink and how smart it was to acquire them based on their ability going forward.

[jjgman21]

we are not talking about predicting future performance.

 

Actually, that's exactly what they were talking about when you entered the discussion. The comparison was between Eyre and Linebrink and how smart it was to acquire them based on their ability going forward.

 

I entered the discussion at this point.

 

 

yeah that's pretty much a terrible comparison. Linebrink was very good for three straight years... Eyre was mediocre every year of his career except one.

 

AND made clear that he was overstating his case rather than being completely wrong.