Matt Murton Discussion/Rant/Opinion Thread

[ConstableRabbit]

why do people keep mentioning murton's power when NONE of our outfielders hit for power (sans Soriano, but he doesn't really fit in this conversation)? Floyd's SLG is below 400, Jones hasn't done anything all year, and Pagan sucks.

 

signing floyd was such a bad idea.

 

Because we need power in the OF! Floyd's slugging has been well below par, yes. However, he is more likely to display power than Murton is, and even if Murton were to be called up, they'd be platooning anyway. Again, I'd rather have DeRosa in RF vs LHP than Murton.

 

Murton's a good player... we just don't have a place for him right now.

 

JJ and Pagan aren't great, but they can play CF as well as right. We can't move JJ, and Pagan has done better than Pie. Our hands are kind of tied there.

[soapy]

why do people keep mentioning murton's power when NONE of our outfielders hit for power (sans Soriano, but he doesn't really fit in this conversation)? Floyd's SLG is below 400, Jones hasn't done anything all year, and Pagan sucks.

 

signing floyd was such a bad idea.

 

So then doesn't this indicate to you we need a power bat in the OF? Or shall we attempt to catch the biggest HR-hitting team in the league with the likes of Matt Murton and Angel Pagan?

 

If your only other options are Floyd and Jones, yes. That's the point. It's not Murton vs. some stud RFer. It's Murton vs. Floyd/Jones becuase those are the only options until/unless someone else is acquired.

[Drew Doughty]

Why is Floyd a better option to hit for power this year? He hasn't shown a lick of power all year, I don't know why he'd suddenly start hitting for power given his age and injury history.

 

we don't "need" power, we need production, which comes from a variety of sources. Murton is a much better option than Floyd and he has been since Floyd was signed.

[CubinNY]

I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever.

 

Did you bother to read any other post before you enlightened us all with the gem above?

 

It is posts like this that are dragging this board down to a lower level. This post and others like them are completely uninformed and vaccous and unfortunately all to indicitive of the general level of analysis as of late.

[soapy]

This thread/discussion reminds me of all the Choi/Karros, Grudz/Walker/Hill, DuBois/Hollansworth arguements. The point isn't that Murton or Choi or B. Hill or DuBois are studs. The point is they are better than or at least equal to the alternative.

[soapy]

I think this thread has been needed to be made for oh, about two years now. I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever. Seriously, you have no idea just how overrated he is in the Cubs community. He's a damn 4th OF at best!

 

I'm SICK of people going into threads that are clearly labeled with a specific topic only to bitch about said topic.

[David]

I think this thread has been needed to be made for oh, about two years now. I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever. Seriously, you have no idea just how overrated he is in the Cubs community. He's a damn 4th OF at best!

 

How many 4th OF's put up a .907 OPS in their first stretch of significant MLB playing time and an .809 OPS in their first full season as (fairly) regular players?

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever.

 

Did you bother to read any other post before you enlightened us all with the gem above?

 

It is posts like this that are dragging this board down to a lower level. This post and others like them are completely uninformed and vaccous and unfortunately all to indicitive of the general level of analysis as of late.

 

It really sums up how absolutely clueless the anti-Murton crowd is.

[Skyballer]

I think this thread has been needed to be made for oh, about two years now. I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever. Seriously, you have no idea just how overrated he is in the Cubs community. He's a damn 4th OF at best!

 

You're kidding right, .297 .365 .809

 

in a full season of ML playing.

You're comment is laughable.

[Soriano12]

This thread/discussion reminds me of all the Choi/Karros, Grudz/Walker/Hill, DuBois/Hollansworth arguements. The point isn't that Murton or Choi or B. Hill or DuBois are studs. The point is they are better than or at least equal to the alternative.

 

Agreed.

[CUBZ99]

This thread/discussion reminds me of all the Choi/Karros, Grudz/Walker/Hill, DuBois/Hollansworth arguements. The point isn't that Murton or Choi or B. Hill or DuBois are studs. The point is they are better than or at least equal to the alternative.

 

Not to derail the thread, but Grudz produced very well during his time with the Cubs. Hindsight being 20/20 there is no way that any sane person would argue Hill would have been a better option. And to say that Dubois was a better option than Hollandsworth is like saying that Neifi was a better option than Macias. They both sucked.

[Derwood]

This thread/discussion reminds me of all the Choi/Karros, Grudz/Walker/Hill, DuBois/Hollansworth arguements. The point isn't that Murton or Choi or B. Hill or DuBois are studs. The point is they are better than or at least equal to the alternative.

 

Not to derail the thread, but Grudz produced very well during his time with the Cubs. Hindsight being 20/20 there is no way that any sane person would argue Hill would have been a better option. And to say that Dubois was a better option than Hollandsworth is like saying that Neifi was a better option than Macias. They both sucked.

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

[jersey cubs fan]

This thread/discussion reminds me of all the Choi/Karros, Grudz/Walker/Hill, DuBois/Hollansworth arguements. The point isn't that Murton or Choi or B. Hill or DuBois are studs. The point is they are better than or at least equal to the alternative.

 

Not to derail the thread, but Grudz produced very well during his time with the Cubs. Hindsight being 20/20 there is no way that any sane person would argue Hill would have been a better option. And to say that Dubois was a better option than Hollandsworth is like saying that Neifi was a better option than Macias. They both sucked.

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

 

Why must you and others exagerrate so ridiculously the stance that some people hold on players. Saying it would be best to give one of their own cheap young players a chance over an aging unproductive player is not saying you think the kid is a HOF, Babe Ruth II, guaranteed All-Star or anything other such nonsense.

[CoolHandLuke]

This thread/discussion reminds me of all the Choi/Karros, Grudz/Walker/Hill, DuBois/Hollansworth arguements. The point isn't that Murton or Choi or B. Hill or DuBois are studs. The point is they are better than or at least equal to the alternative.

 

Not to derail the thread, but Grudz produced very well during his time with the Cubs. Hindsight being 20/20 there is no way that any sane person would argue Hill would have been a better option. And to say that Dubois was a better option than Hollandsworth is like saying that Neifi was a better option than Macias. They both sucked.

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

 

Dubois deserved to at least get a majority of the starts at the time though, because he had the potential to be pretty good, whereas Hollandsworth had over 2500 pa's of meh production, mostly as a part time player.

[soccer10k]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

Except he's already produced in the big leagues over nearly a full season.

 

indeed he has. why people are clamoring for the guy who DIDN'T produce in the big leagues over a full season, I just don't know. but that's another thread.

 

also, i don't care what Murton makes salary-wise. cheap is cheap. good is good. occasionally, those two coexist

 

also, also, for the record, i'm not actively arguing against murton being given a chance. i'm simply playing devil's advocate to everyone who sees him as a guaranteed whatever in RF

 

If you're talking about Cedeno, the last time I checked, Murton and Cedeno play different positions.

[DiamondMind]

Murton is the posterchild for people that sit at their computers and research stats all day about the Cubs. He's absolutely no different than marginal dime a dozen corner outfielders on other teams. No speed, no huge threat of power, no outstanding defense. Just mediocrity.

 

Calling me clueless is a personal attack, jersey, btw.

[DiamondMind]

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

 

Exactly. These are the same people that will have a mental meltdown if we even TALK about trading some marginal prospect like Blevins.

[SouthSideRyan]

Cliff Floyd is the posterchild for people that sit at their computers and research stats all day about the Cubs. He's absolutely no different than marginal dime a dozen corner outfielders on other teams. No speed, no huge threat of power, no outstanding defense. Just mediocrity.

 

Better.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

 

Exactly. These are the same people that will have a mental meltdown if we even TALK about trading some marginal prospect like Blevins.

 

Luckily we have an example something like trading Blevins, when we traded...Blevins. Link to meltdowns plz.

[DiamondMind]

Cliff Floyd is the posterchild for people that sit at their computers and research stats all day about the Cubs. He's absolutely no different than marginal dime a dozen corner outfielders on other teams. No speed, no huge threat of power, no outstanding defense. Just mediocrity.

 

Better.

 

Sarcasm aside, I just dont *get* the pro Murton crowd. I just don't get it. Hey, he posts an OBP 30 points higher than his AVG, which no other Cub does, and its what Billy Beane said is great, so bla bla lets make obnoxious sigs and pictures about how Murton is getting hosed and hasn't gotten a chance ever but lets forget the 700+ AB's he's had bla bla bla.

 

564 AB's

2006 - OPS+ 103

2007 - OPS+ 74

 

He's a fourth OF.

Edited July 25, 2007 by DiamondMind

[DiamondMind]

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

 

Exactly. These are the same people that will have a mental meltdown if we even TALK about trading some marginal prospect like Blevins.

 

Luckily we have an example something like trading Blevins, when we traded...Blevins. Link to meltdowns plz.

 

That's why I gave him as an example. Get it? Example?

 

I'm not going to link you to a thread you can easily find yourself. But there's nothing to hide, go read it, there's *plenty* of people griping about losing our precious Blevins.

[Drew Doughty]

Cliff Floyd is the posterchild for people that sit at their computers and research stats all day about the Cubs. He's absolutely no different than marginal dime a dozen corner outfielders on other teams. No speed, no huge threat of power, no outstanding defense. Just mediocrity.

 

Better.

 

Sarcasm aside, I just dont *get* the pro Murton crowd. I just don't get it. Hey, he posts an OBP 30 points higher than his AVG, which no other Cub does, and its what Billy Beane said is great, so bla bla lets make obnoxious sigs and pictures about how Murton is getting hosed and hasn't gotten a chance ever but lets forget the 700+ AB's he's had bla bla bla.

 

He's a fourth OF.

 

why? you keep saying this but have nothing to back up your claim aside from about 150 at bats to start the year. his 809 OPS last year ranked 7th among qualified LF in the NL. he was also much improved in the second half and he has a history of minor league success. this isn't like jason dubois and his complete lack of success over any extended period of time, Murton was a quality outfielder for an entire season, and he was much, much better than average for about half a year.

[Soul]

I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever.

 

Did you bother to read any other post before you enlightened us all with the gem above?

 

It is posts like this that are dragging this board down to a lower level. This post and others like them are completely uninformed and vaccous and unfortunately all to indicitive of the general level of analysis as of late.

 

It really sums up how absolutely clueless the anti-Murton crowd is.

 

That's ridiculous. Someone disagrees with you and they become clueless.

 

Just for the record, I don't dislike Murton. Put him on the damn roster. I care not. But he's no savior, which I think we can mostly agree. I still think we need more to keep our offense competitive with Ward finished, Floyd gimpy as hell and rather non-productive, and Ramirez one bad step away from needing more games of rest.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

you must not have been around here back then. DuBois was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth to some people here....

 

Exactly. These are the same people that will have a mental meltdown if we even TALK about trading some marginal prospect like Blevins.

 

Luckily we have an example something like trading Blevins, when we traded...Blevins. Link to meltdowns plz.

 

That's why I gave him as an example. Get it? Example?

 

I'm not going to link you to a thread you can easily find yourself. But there's nothing to hide, go read it, there's *plenty* of people griping about losing our precious Blevins.

 

There's *a few* people complaining about giving up anything with the least bit of value for someone as worthless as Kendall. There was nothing I'd consider close to a "meltdown" in that thread.

 

I fail to see how Matt Murton's career 105 OPS+ doesn't represent an upgrade on the pathetic output we're currently getting from RF. Is it a guarantee Matt puts that up the rest of the season? Of course not, but it's also not a guarantee that Matt hits far worse like it seems many anti-Murtons are assuming.

 

People who want Murton up shouldn't have to add a disclaimer with every post saying they are not opposed to a serious upgrade to RF in place of Murton, but when the alternatives are the present team, or talk of going out and getting Sosa or Bobby Kielty, why bother? Is it your opinion Murton can't be a solid option against lefties even?

[DiamondMind]

 

There's *a few* people complaining about giving up anything with the least bit of value for someone as worthless as Kendall. There was nothing I'd consider close to a "meltdown" in that thread.

 

I fail to see how Matt Murton's career 105 OPS+ doesn't represent an upgrade on the pathetic output we're currently getting from RF/LF. Is it a guarantee Matt puts that up the rest of the season? Of course not, but it's also not a guarantee that Matt hits far worse like it seems many anti-Murtons are assuming.

 

People who want Murton up shouldn't have to add a disclaimer with every post saying they are not opposed to a serious upgrade to RF in place of Murton, but when the alternatives are the present team, or talk of going out and getting Sosa or Bobby Kielty, why bother? Is it your opinion Murton can't be a solid option against lefties even?

 

Nothing I said had anything to do with if Murton was a perceived upgrade in RF or not. You could put a trash can out there and it'd even catch a few fly balls and take a few walks.

 

The point is, is that Murton has no place on this team, or arguably any team, assuming we are talking about him playing a starting RF. His skills are not sufficient for a position that historically demands offense.

 

If he was a 4th OF for us, which he will end up being for someone anyway, I'd be fine with that. We'd be better served to ship him off for relief help or something though.

 

People just love him because he's white, red-haired, seems to be a "good guy", says all the PC things, fulfills your fantasies of a Chicago A's or Chicago Blue Jays team, and generally is just a pet project of 90% of this board.

 

All I have to do is say Murton sucks and I'm called clueless, that says it all to me. No other player on this stupid franchise generates more personal attacks than Murton. It's not even close. Now THATS clueless.

 

It also should be noted that the 7th most comparable player ever to Murton is freakin' Ryan Church. Also, since low A ball, he has never posted a SLG% over .425. And this is a corner OF we're talking about. Just sayin.

Edited July 25, 2007 by DiamondMind