Matt Murton Discussion/Rant/Opinion Thread

[jersey cubs fan]

I just think we are desperate for power, Murton doesn't provide it.

 

They aren desperate for OBP more, and Murton does provide that. Additionally, OBP is more important than SLG.

[Derwood]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

Except he's already produced in the big leagues over nearly a full season.

 

indeed he has. why people are clamoring for the guy who DIDN'T produce in the big leagues over a full season, I just don't know. but that's another thread.

 

also, i don't care what Murton makes salary-wise. cheap is cheap. good is good. occasionally, those two coexist

 

also, also, for the record, i'm not actively arguing against murton being given a chance. i'm simply playing devil's advocate to everyone who sees him as a guaranteed whatever in RF

[Drew Doughty]

the cubs don't necessarily need more power, they need better baseball players in general. murton is in all likelihood a much better player than Floyd.

 

In each of August and September last year, Murton had 4 and 5 home runs. Floyd has 4 home runs this year. Murt's last two months of 06 would be ideal for this team (and any team for that matter) and it wouldn't cost us a damn thing. Murton had 3 months last year that were better than anything that Floyd has done in a single month this year, and he had another month that was comparable. Murton's second half OPS last year would rank 3rd among RF this year.

 

Murton is a better bet for power now and he probably always was. The only question is about his defense, and he is definitely not a downgrade from Floyd out there. Calling up Murton isn't going to stop them from upgrading elsewhere (or even in right field if they can get a Griffey/Dunn type).

[jersey cubs fan]

also, i don't care what Murton makes salary-wise. cheap is cheap. good is good. occasionally, those two coexist

 

Did you got to the Jim Hendry school of cost management?

 

Frankly I don't care if you don't care what he makes. The fact is it matters. Smart teams get the most bang for the buck. Poorly run teams pay big money for not big production. Inefficient management is why this team has had the troubles it has had.

[Derwood]

also, i don't care what Murton makes salary-wise. cheap is cheap. good is good. occasionally, those two coexist

 

Did you got to the Jim Hendry school of cost management?

 

Frankly I don't care if you don't care what he makes. The fact is it matters. Smart teams get the most bang for the buck. Poorly run teams pay big money for not big production. Inefficient management is why this team has had the troubles it has had.

 

my point was that if he's brought up and contributes, great, but the fact that he is cheap isn't what should be considered

[Keener98]

also, i don't care what Murton makes salary-wise. cheap is cheap. good is good. occasionally, those two coexist

 

Did you got to the Jim Hendry school of cost management?

 

Frankly I don't care if you don't care what he makes. The fact is it matters. Smart teams get the most bang for the buck. Poorly run teams pay big money for not big production. Inefficient management is why this team has had the troubles it has had.

 

my point was that if he's brought up and contributes, great, but the fact that he is cheap isn't what should be considered

 

No it should be his .294 .360 and .805 OPS for his career in the Majors

[Yestheydo]

My guess is that the perceived problem with Murton is that he has to be in the lineup every day to produce. He never really had that chance this year with Floyd around and he's probably not going to get it until Floyd is gone. That's why they're looking at guys like Monroe and Conine who are used to playing at least semi-part-time.

[kente777]

My guess is that the perceived problem with Murton is that he has to be in the lineup every day to produce. He never really had that chance this year with Floyd around and he's probably not going to get it until Floyd is gone. That's why they're looking at guys like Monroe and Conine who are used to playing at least semi-part-time.

 

That may be the best rationale I've heard yet. Not that I agree with that, I think Murton should play everyday. He's got patience at the plate which the Cubs desparately need. But I think this rationale may be in the minds of Cubs managment.

[fiver]

also, i don't care what Murton makes salary-wise. cheap is cheap. good is good. occasionally, those two coexist

 

Did you got to the Jim Hendry school of cost management?

 

Frankly I don't care if you don't care what he makes. The fact is it matters. Smart teams get the most bang for the buck. Poorly run teams pay big money for not big production. Inefficient management is why this team has had the troubles it has had.

 

:lol: Jim Hendry was a communications/journalism major at Springhill College in Mobile, AL, so Derwood likely does have as much formal training in that area of study as Jim possesses. Actually Hendry wasn't able to obtain a job in his field of study when he graduated from college.

 

From his wiki:

 

He could not find a job in broadcasting, and took a job as a high school teacher and baseball coach in Miami. This led to a job at Creighton University in 1983, and he was promoted to head coach in the middle of the 1984 season. Following Creighton's NCAA College World Series appearance (1991), Hendry was named National Coach of the Year. He left Creighton later that year to become special assistant to then Florida Marlins GM Dave Dombrowski, and also coached minor league teams in 1993 and '94.

 

 

...a businessman he is not, and I agree he is fairly notorious at this point for inefficiently managing resources.

[Derwood]

My guess is that the perceived problem with Murton is that he has to be in the lineup every day to produce. He never really had that chance this year with Floyd around and he's probably not going to get it until Floyd is gone. That's why they're looking at guys like Monroe and Conine who are used to playing at least semi-part-time.

 

if that's the case, it's a REALLY bad excuse, as Floyd is barely playing

[Soul]

I just think we are desperate for power, Murton doesn't provide it.

 

They aren desperate for OBP more, and Murton does provide that. Additionally, OBP is more important than SLG.

 

Let's do a reset.

 

Are we saying Murton is never going to be brought up? I'm just talking about why he might not be here at the moment. As far as I know, he could be brought up any time provided he's not traded.

 

I would like to see him on the roster instead of Pagan. I'm not sure what the thinking is there. At the very least though, with Ward now out, I think we could use a SLG on the bench and Floyd would be the only guy I can see doing it. It might even be the only real use for him since when he starts he breaks like fine crystal.

[cubfan1955]

I'd like to trade Murton and Jones to Cincy for Dunn but I'm not sure Cincy could be convinced. :wink:

 

Of everyone the Cubs have to play RF I'm not in love with any of them. DeRosa is about the best option at this point unless you want him at 2nd instead of Fontenot. In that scenario I'd just as soon see Murton in RF with Floyd coming off the bench where he MAYBE could stay healthy enough to PH. Pagan can be useful if used correctly. Which means you bring Pie back up and let him play CF most of the time.

[MustangMike]

I just think we are desperate for power, Murton doesn't provide it.

 

They aren desperate for OBP more, and Murton does provide that. Additionally, OBP is more important than SLG.

 

Let's do a reset.

 

Are we saying Murton is never going to be brought up? I'm just talking about why he might not be here at the moment. As far as I know, he could be brought up any time provided he's not traded.

 

I would like to see him on the roster instead of Pagan. I'm not sure what the thinking is there. At the very least though, with Ward now out, I think we could use a SLG on the bench and Floyd would be the only guy I can see doing it. It might even be the only real use for him since when he starts he breaks like fine crystal.

 

Pagan seems to win because he can play CF and he switch hits, that's my only guess. I like Murton, and I hate to see him not get a chance. Looks like Cedeno earned the first shot with his AAA performance and the lack of a real SS. My question is, would you rather have murton on the bench and take Jock's place or have Murton play daily in AAA?

[Derwood]

i just don't see how a lineup of

 

Soriano

Cedeno

Lee

Ramirez

DeRosa

Murton

Kendall

Pie

 

is much better than

 

Soriano

Theriot

Lee

Ramirez

Floyd

DeRosa

Jones

Kendall

 

 

Neither look like playoff teams to me

[Abe Frohman]

I am not sure why Murton is not with the big club, just like everyone else. What I do know is that he is kinda limited to the LF position. Sure he can play RF, but he really isn't really what a Major League team needs in RF (I know, Cliff Floyd isn't either).

 

I think Murton would be a perfect fit on this team if Soriano were a RFer. If Alfonso is more comfortable and produces better in LF - don't touch him. I don't know why a Murton/Jones platoon isn't being utilized in RF with Floyd and Ward as pinch hitters/occasional starters - but I am sure there are reasons.

 

I think that the OF situation should be cleared up, and at least two guys ought to be fixtures in that OF. I'd like to see Pie in CF, and producing. It looks like Jones has figured it out too - only helping the Cubs.

[Tracer Bullet]

i just don't see how a lineup of

 

Soriano

Cedeno

Lee

Ramirez

DeRosa

Murton

Kendall

Pie

 

is much better than

 

Soriano

Theriot

Lee

Ramirez

Floyd

DeRosa

Jones

Kendall

 

 

Neither look like playoff teams to me

 

I guess I look at it the other way. Theriot, Floyd, Jones don't significantly improve our chances, so why not play Cedeno, Murton, and Pie? Those are young guys with upside who have (to varying degrees) shown some ability to be good/great at different levels. It doesn't make sense to me to allow them to continue to play very well at AAA while average or worse players are getting ABs in the bigs.

[hardcorecubfan]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

I am hoping he is not like Rosie Brown another fan fav.

[DiamondMind]

I think this thread has been needed to be made for oh, about two years now. I'm SICK of every thread turning into some half assed discussion on why Murton is the best thing ever. Seriously, you have no idea just how overrated he is in the Cubs community. He's a damn 4th OF at best!

[NCCubFan]

I am hoping he is not like Rosie Brown another fan fav.

I still remember the lengthy Brown vs. Patterson debate on cubs.com (before NSBB existed).

[ConstableRabbit]

I just think we are desperate for power, Murton doesn't provide it. Lou's gambling on Floyd providing it; I think it's a significant gamble and we need to make a move to get more power from somewhere. I can't get too upset over Murton for these reasons. He should be a good kid somewhere down the line, but right now he's not going to fill the dire need.

 

It's Wrigley in the 2nd half. Wind starts blowing out, and the team that muscles up the most usually wins. We start getting into bashing contests with only Lee & ARam powering our train, we're probably going to derail.

but don't you think murton is a better bet to provide that missing power vs. a LHP than Floyd, Pagan or Fontenot? none is likely too, but murton at least gives you the best chance.

 

I love Murton, but can the guy produce with those limited ABs? Does he have the ability to platoon and pinch-hit a lot? I know he wasn't up with the big league club for much more than a month, but his performance when he was here showed that he was having a lot of difficulty in that role.

 

Perhaps more importantly, we have too many OFs at the moment and Murton is the least versitile of them all. We need an OF who can hit for power, and if he can't do that, he might as well play more than just RF. I mean, I'd rather have DeRosa playing RF against LHP. We could use that opportunity to play Riot and Fontenot at SS and 2B (alternating with Ronny) and give Floyd some days off to rest.

 

I just don't think Murton fits in right now.

[soapy]

i just don't see how a lineup of

 

Soriano

Cedeno

Lee

Ramirez

DeRosa

Murton

Kendall

Pie

 

is much better than

 

Soriano

Theriot

Lee

Ramirez

Floyd

DeRosa

Jones

Kendall

 

 

Neither look like playoff teams to me

 

I think:

Soriano LF

Murton RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

DeRosa 2B

Kendall C

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Pagan CF

 

Is better than what they are putting out there against LHPs now. Against RHP, start Floyd in RF (when healthy), Jones in CF (if he stays hot until he's traded) and possibly Fontenot at 2B or SS. It's not great by any stretch, but it's an improvement, and that's the point, no?

[Drew Doughty]

why do people keep mentioning murton's power when NONE of our outfielders hit for power (sans Soriano, but he doesn't really fit in this conversation)? Floyd's SLG is below 400, Jones hasn't done anything all year, and Pagan sucks.

 

signing floyd was such a bad idea.

[Soul]

why do people keep mentioning murton's power when NONE of our outfielders hit for power (sans Soriano, but he doesn't really fit in this conversation)? Floyd's SLG is below 400, Jones hasn't done anything all year, and Pagan sucks.

 

signing floyd was such a bad idea.

 

So then doesn't this indicate to you we need a power bat in the OF? Or shall we attempt to catch the biggest HR-hitting team in the league with the likes of Matt Murton and Angel Pagan?

[Drew Doughty]

why do people keep mentioning murton's power when NONE of our outfielders hit for power (sans Soriano, but he doesn't really fit in this conversation)? Floyd's SLG is below 400, Jones hasn't done anything all year, and Pagan sucks.

 

signing floyd was such a bad idea.

 

So then doesn't this indicate to you we need a power bat in the OF? Or shall we attempt to catch the biggest HR-hitting team in the league with the likes of Matt Murton and Angel Pagan?

 

if we can make a big splash, sure. i don't get where i indicated that we shouldn't go out and make a trade.

 

the fact is that murton is probably the best option to regularly play RF on the team, given what he did last year (specifically in the second half/last two months of last year). If we aren't going to make a trade, he should be given a lengthy look as a starter in RF. I'm sure Floyd has some injury that requires a 15-day vacation to give Murton that shot.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

why do people keep mentioning murton's power when NONE of our outfielders hit for power (sans Soriano, but he doesn't really fit in this conversation)? Floyd's SLG is below 400, Jones hasn't done anything all year, and Pagan sucks.

 

signing floyd was such a bad idea.

 

So then doesn't this indicate to you we need a power bat in the OF? Or shall we attempt to catch the biggest HR-hitting team in the league with the likes of Matt Murton and Angel Pagan?

 

No one is saying "we don't need an OF, we have Murton", they're saying "Murton is our best option right now, let's play him".