Should Barry be allowed in the Hall.

[Skyballer]

Simply put, Barry's use of steroids can't be proven. If it can't be proven in the future should he be allowed in the Hall.

 

Note: I am not defending Bonds or saying he didn't use those 'roids

[TruffleShuffle]

Simply put, Barry's use of steroids can't be proven.

 

Yes it can

 

Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

 

 

regardless, he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Barry was a HOFer before he ever took steroids. For that reason, he belongs without a doubt.

[Skyballer]

Simply put, Barry's use of steroids can't be proven.

 

Yes it can

 

Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

 

 

regardless, he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

my mistake, but if memory serves me correct, the proven time he was on the 'roids was little and did not make him hit all 752 bombs

[TruffleShuffle]

Simply put, Barry's use of steroids can't be proven.

 

Yes it can

 

Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

 

 

regardless, he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

my mistake, but if memory serves me correct, the proven time he was on the 'roids was little and did not make him hit all 752 bombs

 

true, but it's also been basically proven that he used steroids, which was in your original statement. I don't care if they have photos of him shooting roids into his but for the past 10 years, he's a hall of famer.

[Lockes Eye Scar]

don't care if he's still injecting something into his butt to this day, he belongs in the hall, first ballot.

[Derwood]

if he's kept out of the Hall because baseball couldn't enforce it's own policies.....

[Shilzzz]

hgh was not illegal.

[dew1679666265]

Barry was a HOFer before he ever took steroids. For that reason, he belongs without a doubt.

 

I've never understood this sentiment. How do we know when he started taking steroids? Was it in 94? 98? Also, where do the non-steroids stats stop and the steroid influenced stats begin? Seems like if that were known, there would be an outcry to cut out his steroid influenced stats and go with only the non-steroid stats.

 

I just don't understand how we can tell when he started using.

[Derwood]

Barry was a HOFer before he ever took steroids. For that reason, he belongs without a doubt.

 

I've never understood this sentiment. How do we know when he started taking steroids? Was it in 94? 98? Also, where do the non-steroids stats stop and the steroid influenced stats begin? Seems like if that were known, there would be an outcry to cut out his steroid influenced stats and go with only the non-steroid stats.

 

I just don't understand how we can tell when he started using.

 

we can't, which is why we should stop over-analyzing it to death

[dew1679666265]

Barry was a HOFer before he ever took steroids. For that reason, he belongs without a doubt.

 

I've never understood this sentiment. How do we know when he started taking steroids? Was it in 94? 98? Also, where do the non-steroids stats stop and the steroid influenced stats begin? Seems like if that were known, there would be an outcry to cut out his steroid influenced stats and go with only the non-steroid stats.

 

I just don't understand how we can tell when he started using.

 

we can't, which is why we should stop over-analyzing it to death

 

Agreed.

[The Voice of Reason]

I don't need a picture of Bonds with a needle in his butt to think he did steroids. I read the Game of Shadows - that was proof enough for me. I can't believe anyone that read that book that doesn't think Bonds is guilty.

 

I agree with Rozner. He deserves to be in Hall of Fame and the Hall of Shame.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/search/printstory.asp?id=332056

 

The worst part is, in 1998 he already was a Hall of Famer with three MVP awards, a shelf full of Gold Gloves, 411 home runs and 445 stolen bases, easily on his way to a 500-500 career, assured of better than 1,500 RBI, 1,500 runs and 2,500 hits — even without enhancement.

 

Unlike Sosa and McGwire, Bonds already was a superstar and a genius at his craft in every way before he blew up and shrunk the record book.

 

That player would have been worthy of taking down the biggest records the game has known, but the only historical significance to Bonds breaking the home run mark now is all the bad it represents from the worst era the game has known — at least until Alex Rodriguez catches and passes Bonds.

It’s what he has done to the game, to the history, to the numbers and to his body that is so sickening.

 

But much as people would like me to, I don’t hate Barry Bonds.

 

He’s a slow, lumbering, giant of a beast today, not at all resembling the player I watched grow up as a Pirate.

 

That Bonds was a skinny speed demon who played football in the outfield with Bobby Bonilla during batting practice, chased Shawon Dunston around the cage, and jumped on Rick Sutcliffe’s back, like a kid in a candy store.

 

That Bonds had a chance to be one of the top five who ever set foot on a baseball field.

 

Now, I look at what he did to himself out of jealousy and I don’t hate him.

 

I hate what he did to himself, and what the game insisted he do.

 

It’s a shame, is what it is.

 

A sick, sad shame.

[TruffleShuffle]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

[CubmanPi]

Yes, without a doubt.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Without question, yes.

 

And if I were at the game that he broke the record, I would give him a standing ovation. (Just so we're clear, I do think he's a jack@$$, and I don't like him as a person.)

[Derwood]

he probably started doing roids to help with injuries.

 

and yes, i think there are SO many pro atheletes on roids that it's almost a moot issue. there was an article in my paper today talking about FRIGGING GOLFERS being on roids

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

he probably started doing roids to help with injuries.

 

and yes, i think there are SO many pro atheletes on roids that it's almost a moot issue. there was an article in my paper today talking about FRIGGING GOLFERS being on roids

Yeah, I've been hearing a lot about that lately too. That's crazy. Although I do think roid rage on a golf course would be hysterical.

[The Voice of Reason]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

 

 

Based on what evidence can you say half the guys pitching to him were on roids?

 

The evidence against Bonds is overwhelming (See Game of Shadows)- you're just speculating about the percentage of pitchers on roids to try to help your case.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Link

 

Suspensions by position

 

Pitchers make up the largest percentage of the 157 players who have been suspended over the past two seasons.

 

Pitchers: 87 [55 percent]

Infielders: 32 [20 percent]

Outfielders: 20 [13 percent]

Catchers: 18 [12 percent]

 

Source: Database analysis by ESPN.com.

[NewUserName]

I don't need a picture of Bonds with a needle in his butt to think he did steroids. I read the Game of Shadows - that was proof enough for me. I can't believe anyone that read that book that doesn't think Bonds is guilty.

 

I agree with Rozner. He deserves to be in Hall of Fame and the Hall of Shame.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/search/printstory.asp?id=332056

 

The worst part is, in 1998 he already was a Hall of Famer with three MVP awards, a shelf full of Gold Gloves, 411 home runs and 445 stolen bases, easily on his way to a 500-500 career, assured of better than 1,500 RBI, 1,500 runs and 2,500 hits — even without enhancement.

 

Unlike Sosa and McGwire, Bonds already was a superstar and a genius at his craft in every way before he blew up and shrunk the record book.

 

That player would have been worthy of taking down the biggest records the game has known, but the only historical significance to Bonds breaking the home run mark now is all the bad it represents from the worst era the game has known — at least until Alex Rodriguez catches and passes Bonds.

It’s what he has done to the game, to the history, to the numbers and to his body that is so sickening.

 

But much as people would like me to, I don’t hate Barry Bonds.

 

He’s a slow, lumbering, giant of a beast today, not at all resembling the player I watched grow up as a Pirate.

 

That Bonds was a skinny speed demon who played football in the outfield with Bobby Bonilla during batting practice, chased Shawon Dunston around the cage, and jumped on Rick Sutcliffe’s back, like a kid in a candy store.

 

That Bonds had a chance to be one of the top five who ever set foot on a baseball field.

 

Now, I look at what he did to himself out of jealousy and I don’t hate him.

 

I hate what he did to himself, and what the game insisted he do.

 

It’s a shame, is what it is.

 

A sick, sad shame.

 

 

I wish he could show me how much steroids and/or HGH helped Bonds. Its easy to say I am sickened because he broke records using drugs. What would he have done if not for the drugs? What would he have done if noone in baseball was on drugs? All of this is pure conjecture. Put him in. While they are at it put in Sosa and McGwire.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

 

 

Based on what evidence can you say half the guys pitching to him were on roids?

 

The evidence against Bonds is overwhelming (See Game of Shadows)- you're just speculating about the percentage of pitchers on roids to try to help your case.

I don't know much about Game of Shadows or the circus around it. I refuse to read that or Conseco's book or any of that stuff that's hellbent simply on slamming people and profiting off the streroid buzz. But didn't the two guys who wrote it refuse to give up their sources? Meaning they could've been making all of that up? I have no doubt that Bonds was on some kind of performance enhancer at some point. He admitted to the cream and the clear in court, just as McGwire admitted using Andro. But the whole Game of Shadows thing always seemed a little fishy to me.

[CubmanPi]

Link

 

Suspensions by position

 

Pitchers make up the largest percentage of the 157 players who have been suspended over the past two seasons.

 

Pitchers: 87 [55 percent]

Infielders: 32 [20 percent]

Outfielders: 20 [13 percent]

Catchers: 18 [12 percent]

 

Source: Database analysis by ESPN.com.

That doesn't seem terribly telling, since it's roughly the breakdown of roster makeup as well. Pitchers are a little under 50 percent of a baseball roster, and being so much more involved in the game than any other position sems like it adequately accounts for the slightly higher percentage. (Also, I'm not sure what these stats have to do with this thread, but it's still interesting, so whatever.)

[Andy]

He should be in the Hall even if it's proven he cheated. The Hall of Fame is about the game's history, not about keeping out anyone that cheated/gambled/was a bad person.

 

He should be in, and there should be a large steroids-related area that encompasses most of the Barryness in there.

 

But Bud won't, of course, do this.

[Andy]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

 

 

Based on what evidence can you say half the guys pitching to him were on roids?

 

The evidence against Bonds is overwhelming (See Game of Shadows)- you're just speculating about the percentage of pitchers on roids to try to help your case.

I don't know much about Game of Shadows or the circus around it. I refuse to read that or Conseco's book or any of that stuff that's hellbent simply on slamming people and profiting off the streroid buzz. But didn't the two guys who wrote it refuse to give up their sources? Meaning they could've been making all of that up? I have no doubt that Bonds was on some kind of performance enhancer at some point. He admitted to the cream and the clear in court, just as McGwire admitted using Andro. But the whole Game of Shadows thing always seemed a little fishy to me.

They refused to give up their sources because their sources had obtained the testimony illegally. They offered confidentiality to their sources in exchange for the information and stuck to that offer. I admire that.

[XZero771679666304]

Yes. Even though I firmly believe that Bonds used performance enhancers, he's in in my book.

 

First, because his career was HOF caliber before went all gamma rage. Second, I also firmly believe that many, many others were doing it as well.

 

My only real problem with him is that he is a paranoid, narcissistic and racist ass.

 

But as a ballplayer, he's clearly HOF, first ballot.