Are there any better options?

[Backtobanks]

After looking at the rumored options and what they would cost in players and salary, are there any options much better than our internal options? I'm starting to think Derosa/Pagan/Floyd in RF, Pie/Pagan in CF, Cedeno/Theriot at SS, and Soto/Bowen/Hill at C might be worth trying. Hendry (or Selig) isn't going to add the salary of Dunn, Tejada, Griffey, Arod, Abreu, etc. Names like Visquel or whoever aren't going to make a difference, so maybe call up Cedeno and Soto and ride the hottest player until they cool off at each of the questionable positions.

[dew1679666265]

After looking at the rumored options and what they would cost in players and salary, are there any options much better than our internal options? I'm starting to think Derosa/Pagan/Floyd in RF, Pie/Pagan in CF, Cedeno/Theriot at SS, and Soto/Bowen/Hill at C might be worth trying. Hendry (or Selig) isn't going to add the salary of Dunn, Tejada, Griffey, Arod, Abreu, etc. Names like Visquel or whoever aren't going to make a difference, so maybe call up Cedeno and Soto and ride the hottest player until they cool off at each of the questionable positions.

 

The main question I have is money related. Can we add salary? I realize none of us can answer that with any level of certainty, but that's the key as to whether a worthwhile deal can/should be made.

 

If we can take on the salary, Griffey, ARod (yes, pipedream) or Dunn would be immediate upgrades over anything we have at the major or minor league levels and, thus, would be worth trading for. Also, if we have the prospects to bring in Salty, that trade would be much better than the Soto/Hill/Bowen combo.

 

But, if we can't take on salary, then I would not be crazy about Vizquel, Molina or a lot of the other names we've thrown out. At that point, I likely give Soto and Cedeno a shot and try to get Lofton for center.

[fromthestretch]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

[CUBZ99]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

[CubColtPacer]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

 

Hill's caught all of Z's starts in that stretch but one-Bowen caught the win against the White Sox.

[Banedon]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

 

Bowen caught Zambrano on 6/22. Zambrano gave up one run and had 12k's.

 

Other than that, Hill has caught Z since the Barrett trade, but that's only 6 games.

[hankp101]

Assuming we are not going to be able to add salary, Izturis, Jones and Hill should be traded for absolutely anything, even organizational filler. If that can't be accomplished DFA them. I think the team is immediatley better with Cedeno-Murton-Soto over Izturis-Jones-Hill, so who cares if they have to eat the remaining salary. Jimbo should spend the ASB working the phones for any potential deal and move on if none can be made.

[fromthestretch]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

 

I'm afraid that if they do bring up Soto, they'll platoon him. That would suck, considering he's hitting righties better than lefties this year.

 

The key thing here is that Soto and Cedeno don't have to continue hitting .350+ to be an improvement over what the Cubs currently have at their respective positions. They are both very likely to improve the offense at those positions.

[CUBZ99]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

 

I'm afraid that if they do bring up Soto, they'll platoon him. That would suck, considering he's hitting righties better than lefties this year.

 

The key thing here is that Soto and Cedeno don't have to continue hitting .350+ to be an improvement over what the Cubs currently have at their respective positions. They are both very likely to improve the offense at those positions.

 

Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about Soto (other than seeing him play in a few games in Iowa), so I can't really comment on whether or not he would be an improvement. However, Ceneno has shown absolutely nothing at the major league level, during his stints with the Cubs. I remember last year thinking "Any one could do better than Neifi" only to see Cedeno prove me wrong.

 

I don't care how well he hits the baseball in Iowa against AAA, I'm in no hurry to see him play for the Cubs again. It is possible that Cedeno has seen the light and will be a productive big leaguer and but count me as a skeptic until he proves he can hit in the majors.

[soapy]

If Hendry's hands are really tied money-wise (which I don't believe), than I think there are some internal options that can improve the club slightly. Get rid of Izturis, Jones and Eyre. Send K. Hill down. Call up Cedeno, Murton and Soto.

 

I just posted this in the other Murton thread, but I wonder if Soriano would move back to CF for the remainder of the season. An outfield of Murton-Soriano-Floyd (DeRosa against LHP?) is more productive than what they currently have.

 

vs RHP

 

Soriano CF

DeRosa 2B

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Floyd RF

Murton LF

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Soto C

 

vs LHP

 

Soriano CF

DeRosa RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Murton LF

Fontenot 2B

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Soto C

[fromthestretch]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

 

I'm afraid that if they do bring up Soto, they'll platoon him. That would suck, considering he's hitting righties better than lefties this year.

 

The key thing here is that Soto and Cedeno don't have to continue hitting .350+ to be an improvement over what the Cubs currently have at their respective positions. They are both very likely to improve the offense at those positions.

 

Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about Soto (other than seeing him play in a few games in Iowa), so I can't really comment on whether or not he would be an improvement. However, Ceneno has shown absolutely nothing at the major league level, during his stints with the Cubs. I remember last year thinking "Any one could do better than Neifi" only to see Cedeno prove me wrong.

 

I don't care how well he hits the baseball in Iowa against AAA, I'm in no hurry to see him play for the Cubs again. It is possible that Cedeno has seen the light and will be a productive big leaguer and but count me as a skeptic until he proves he can hit in the majors.

 

That bolded part isn't entirely accurate. Cedeno showed promise in 2005. A lot of people forget that he's only 24, so he still has room for improvement. He's most likely not going to be an elite offensive player, but he could end up being a better than average shortstop. The thing is, he's doing two things at AAA that a lot of people probably didn't expect: he's taking walks and he's hitting for power. The Cubs aren't getting much of anything from the SS position offensively, so giving Cedeno a chance isn't going to make things any worse.

 

Edited for grammar.

[Tracer Bullet]

If Hendry's hands are really tied money-wise (which I don't believe), than I think there are some internal options that can improve the club slightly. Get rid of Izturis, Jones and Eyre. Send K. Hill down. Call up Cedeno, Murton and Soto.

 

I just posted this in the other Murton thread, but I wonder if Soriano would move back to CF for the remainder of the season. An outfield of Murton-Soriano-Floyd (DeRosa against LHP?) is more productive than what they currently have.

 

vs RHP

 

Soriano CF

DeRosa 2B

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Floyd RF

Murton LF

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Soto C

 

vs LHP

 

Soriano CF

DeRosa RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Murton LF

Fontenot 2B

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Soto C

 

I generally agree, though I think I'd give Cedeno the full time job to see if last year was just a bad year.

 

But didn't I see somewhere that Hill is out of options? Or did I make that up?

[killthegoat06]

If Hendry's hands are really tied money-wise (which I don't believe), than I think there are some internal options that can improve the club slightly. Get rid of Izturis, Jones and Eyre. Send K. Hill down. Call up Cedeno, Murton and Soto.

 

I just posted this in the other Murton thread, but I wonder if Soriano would move back to CF for the remainder of the season. An outfield of Murton-Soriano-Floyd (DeRosa against LHP?) is more productive than what they currently have.

 

vs RHP

 

Soriano CF

DeRosa 2B

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Floyd RF

Murton LF

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Soto C

 

vs LHP

 

Soriano CF

DeRosa RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Murton LF

Fontenot 2B

Cedeno/Theriot SS

Soto C

 

I generally agree, though I think I'd give Cedeno the full time job to see if last year was just a bad year.

 

But didn't I see somewhere that Hill is out of options? Or did I make that up?

 

Yeah, Koyie is out of options.

[soccer10k]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

Holy crap. I knew Cedeno was tearing it up at AAA but I didn't know he was doing THAT well. Promote him immediately.

[Fred Hornkohl]

If the Cubs are going to give Soto a shot - which he definitely deserves - then get rid of Hill. Bowen becomes the back-up. Cedeno should be given a chance to start. If the Cubs can somehow get rid of Izturis, then Derosa can split time between 2B and RF, with Floyd getting some time in RF and Fontenot getting some time at 2B. Cedeno could get a majority of the starts at SS, with Theriot getting a couple starts per week. Izturis isn't the future of this ballclub, and he hasn't done anything to justify keeping him around. If the Cubs are looking for a shortstop of the future, start internally with the 24-year old with an 1.114 OPS at AAA.

 

I know it sounds ridiculous, but, hasn't Hill been Zambrano's personal catcher since Zambrano has gotten really hot. That alone may be reason enough for Hendry to want to keep Hill on the big league club (not saying that I agree with it). I'm guessing that unless Bowen or Hill get hurt, Soto is not going to see any action until the rosters are expanded. If Blanco, gets healthy, Soto's chances of seeing any big league action are reduced considerably.

 

Not really......

 

Team record by starting catcher (Zambrano pitching)

 

CUBS are 2-5 when Barrett starts at catcher
CUBS are 3-2 when Blanco starts at catcher
CUBS are 4-1 when K Hill starts at catcher
CUBS are 1-0 when Bowen starts at catcher

[killthegoat06]

Yeah Izzy has to go and Cedeno has to come up.

[Mizzou]

Yeah Izzy has to go and Cedeno has to come up.

Hey do you know if Premium still includes an Ignore option?

[davearm]

I'd be very surprised to see the Cubs make an inexperienced and unproven rookie (Soto) their primary catcher in the midst of a second-half playoff chase.

 

Cedeno's got a better chance of being handed the everyday SS job, but I'd be skeptical of that happening, too.

 

My gut sense is that at this point the Cubs will stick with what they've got at catcher, and look to upgrade elsewhere... one more bullpen arm at least, and perhaps another bat at SS, CF or RF.

[killthegoat06]

Why would we need another bullpen arm?

 

Demp

Howry

Marmol

Weurtz

Ohman

Gooz

Petrick/Wood

 

 

There are bigger holes on this team.

[UBlink]

Hey do you know if Premium still includes an Ignore option?

 

Yes

[Ding Dong Johnson]

http://www.northsidebaseball.com/PremiumForum/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_ignore_add.gif

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Why would we need another bullpen arm?

 

Demp

Howry

Marmol

Weurtz

Ohman

Gooz

Petrick/Wood

 

 

There are bigger holes on this team.

Agreed, but you and I both know that's what ol' Jim's gonna do, right? We're going to give up 1-2 prospects plus a major leaguer for Eric Gagne to get us 'bullpen help' while our offense settles into a 3-4 RPG clip the rest of the way. It gets me angry just thinking about it because it's so obvious that's what Hendry will do.

 

After seeing the Cubs win in person 3 times at RFK this week (thankfully I skipped the July 4th massacre) I'll agree with the board consensus that this lineup isn't good enough to sustain our post-June 3rd play the rest of the summer, or even anything close to it. It's not just C and SS. At center we still have a platoon of Pagan/Pie/Jones (on occasion), and RF speaks for itself. Soriano, Lee and Ramirez are nice pieces, but filling in around them with a bunch of crap won't win this decision no matter HOW well we're playing right now.

 

I really really hope Hendry does everything in his power - whatever that may be- to add some offense to our everyday lineup and not go chasing after overpriced, veteran 'help' in the bullpen. This team's bully is fine.

[NCCubFan]

Agreed, but you and I both know that's what ol' Jim's gonna do, right? We're going to give up 1-2 prospects plus a major leaguer for Eric Gagne to get us 'bullpen help' while our offense settles into a 3-4 RPG clip the rest of the way. It gets me angry just thinking about it because it's so obvious that's what Hendry will do.

 

After seeing the Cubs win in person 3 times at RFK this week (thankfully I skipped the July 4th massacre) I'll agree with the board consensus that this lineup isn't good enough to sustain our post-June 3rd play the rest of the summer, or even anything close to it. It's not just C and SS. At center we still have a platoon of Pagan/Pie/Jones (on occasion), and RF speaks for itself. Soriano, Lee and Ramirez are nice pieces, but filling in around them with a bunch of crap won't win this decision no matter HOW well we're playing right now.

 

I really really hope Hendry does everything in his power - whatever that may be- to add some offense to our everyday lineup and not go chasing after overpriced, veteran 'help' in the bullpen. This team's bully is fine.

Your user name has new meaning now. :D

[dew1679666265]

Why would we need another bullpen arm?

 

Demp

Howry

Marmol

Weurtz

Ohman

Gooz

Petrick/Wood

 

 

There are bigger holes on this team.

Agreed, but you and I both know that's what ol' Jim's gonna do, right? We're going to give up 1-2 prospects plus a major leaguer for Eric Gagne to get us 'bullpen help' while our offense settles into a 3-4 RPG clip the rest of the way. It gets me angry just thinking about it because it's so obvious that's what Hendry will do.

 

After seeing the Cubs win in person 3 times at RFK this week (thankfully I skipped the July 4th massacre) I'll agree with the board consensus that this lineup isn't good enough to sustain our post-June 3rd play the rest of the summer, or even anything close to it. It's not just C and SS. At center we still have a platoon of Pagan/Pie/Jones (on occasion), and RF speaks for itself. Soriano, Lee and Ramirez are nice pieces, but filling in around them with a bunch of crap won't win this decision no matter HOW well we're playing right now.

 

I really really hope Hendry does everything in his power - whatever that may be- to add some offense to our everyday lineup and not go chasing after overpriced, veteran 'help' in the bullpen. This team's bully is fine.

 

While I agree we shouldn't be going hard after Gagne (I wouldn't mind him, but would prefer Jim target the other useful Texas player - Lofton), RF is not one of this team's problems. Floyd is hitting .292 with a .363 OBP. While Murton perhaps should be starting in right, Floyd's fine. His only problem is lack of power, but I think that will pick up eventually - almost every one of his hits are scorched somewhere, he just needs to start elevating now.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Floyd's average is nice and a pleasant surprise, for sure; it's his SLG% that worries me. If you're not going to get XBHs from RF, you're going to need them from a non-traditional power position to make up for it, and we're not generating any power whatsoever from those positions to being with (SS, C, 2B). As a team, we're 8th in the NL in slugging, 9th in OPS and 11th in HRs hit. While our BA is solid (.268, 5th in the NL) I worry about any team chasing the playoffs with only two players likely bets to top 20 HRs (Sori and Ramy) and only two others likely to hit double digits (Lee and DeRo).

 

I just think our SP is going to have to continue to be awfully good to even stay in this race unless Jim finds a way to add power to this lineup. As others have noted, we've been surprisingly good with runners on base and in "clutch" situations, but we're still lacking in total bases, and it's not helping that our 2nd best run producer never hits with anyone on base.