Catchers' Offense

[Lefty]

Cub non-Barrett catchers are hitting .157/.228/.241 as catchers in 92 PAs this season. Not sure we can keep that up and compete.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

anemic

[Guest]

Free Soto!

[abuck1220]

Cub non-Barrett catchers are hitting .157/.228/.241 as catchers in 92 PAs this season. Not sure we can keep that up and compete.

 

yeah, with pie struggling and ss being a question mark, the cubs are likely in trouble offensively.

[killthegoat06]

Cub non-Barrett catchers are hitting .157/.228/.241 as catchers in 92 PAs this season. Not sure we can keep that up and compete.

 

yeah, with pie struggling and ss being a question mark, the cubs are likely in trouble offensively.

 

For now, I like Fontenot at SS.

 

Catcher is more important. (plus cf, but hopefully pie can break out of the slump.)

 

Why haven't we brought soto up? Has he been struggling?

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Right now you just have to hope that when Bowen is playing, he draws walks since he has shown that he can be patient.

 

And with Koyie, hopefully he can come through with the big hit here and there because I can't see much more happening.

 

And I would love to see Soto also, but I guess that won't be happening since Hill is out of options.

[Sarcastic]

Hill and Bowen might not be able to hit at all, but think of all the runs they'll glove in. That's clutch, dude.

 

I think the Dusty impersonation is fitting for the catcher situation this year.

[SouthSideRyan]

What about CERA?

[Mephistopheles]

CERA is a very important concept. It is a way to show who is better at calling pitches. The pitchers are the same, so obviously there is a difference. Defense behind the dish is vital to a team's success.

 

2001 - Miller

2002 - Molina

2003 - Rodriguez

2004 - Varitek

2005 - Pierzynski

2006 - Another Molina

 

4 of the last 6 seasons a defensive standout catcher's team has won the WS. That's a nice tradition the Cubs don't have.

[killthegoat06]

CERA is a very important concept. It is a way to show who is better at calling pitches. The pitchers are the same, so obviously there is a difference. Defense behind the dish is vital to a team's success.

 

2001 - Miller

2002 - Molina

2003 - Rodriguez

2004 - Varitek

2005 - Pierzynski

2006 - Another Molina

 

4 of the last 6 seasons a defensive standout catcher's team has won the WS. That's a nice tradition the Cubs don't have.

 

Do both Hill and Bowen qualify as such?

[Sarcastic]

CERA is a very important concept. It is a way to show who is better at calling pitches. The pitchers are the same, so obviously there is a difference. Defense behind the dish is vital to a team's success.

 

2001 - Miller

2002 - Molina

2003 - Rodriguez

2004 - Varitek

2005 - Pierzynski

2006 - Another Molina

 

4 of the last 6 seasons a defensive standout catcher's team has won the WS. That's a nice tradition the Cubs don't have.

 

Do both Hill and Bowen qualify as such?

 

I think Meph is kidding since I recall him arguing against CERA in the past.

[Mephistopheles]

CERA is a very important concept. It is a way to show who is better at calling pitches. The pitchers are the same, so obviously there is a difference. Defense behind the dish is vital to a team's success.

 

2001 - Miller

2002 - Molina

2003 - Rodriguez

2004 - Varitek

2005 - Pierzynski

2006 - Another Molina

 

4 of the last 6 seasons a defensive standout catcher's team has won the WS. That's a nice tradition the Cubs don't have.

 

Do both Hill and Bowen qualify as such?

Well, not really but they're still better than Barrett.

[Amazing_Grace]

Cub non-Barrett catchers are hitting .157/.228/.241 as catchers in 92 PAs this season. Not sure we can keep that up and compete.

 

yeah, with pie struggling and ss being a question mark, the cubs are likely in trouble offensively.

 

Indeed, our production right now at SS relies on a 27 year old rookie playing a position he's never played, and continuing to play well over his head. Our RF production relies on a platoon of a AAAA player in Pagan and the oft-injured Cliff Floyd. The catcher and CF situations were concessions to defense. Pie may get better in CF, but the offense from the catcher position isn't likely to improve.

 

If the offense remains as good as it has been the past couple weeks, I'll be shocked. It will likely mean that Fontenot either held down SS and Floyd stayed healthy or that Theriot found his stroke again and DeRosa put up an .800-.825 OPS in RF, and Fontenot continued to hit well at 2b.

[inari]

Soto's the guy for the job. Period.

[Coach C]

While the catchers offense is an issue, the W-L isn't.

 

Since Jun 21, the Cubs are 7-1.

[Skyballer]

Before today's 0-1 PH appearance by Theriot, he was finding his mark at the plate the two previous games. HOwever you just couldn't sit Fontenot or DeRosa

[Mephistopheles]

forget about theriot, it's time for fontenot to shine.

[bhogg]

If they catch a good game and go 0-4, I'm happy.

 

Anything the catcher brings to the offense is gravy to me.

[Roast]

I was thinking about this while I was driving home from work, and I've got a couple different things to say on the issue (i'm not at all promising, though, that they will lead to one coherent conclusion)

 

1. Catchers ERA is...well...I dont want to say bogus, but not completely fair. If a catcher is a bad pitch caller...well okay... but the pitcher does have the right to shake him off. So it's not entirely the catchers fault, as a pitcher has the final say in which pitch is thrown.

 

2. Many complained that Barrett's lack of offense rendered him useless because he was obviously an offensive catcher, rather than a defensive one. But, looking at these numbers:

 

Non-Barret Cubs Catchers: .157/.228/.241

Barrett 2007 (CHC & SD): .253/.300/.412

 

Even when Barrett was having a terrible offensive year, by his standards, he was still hitting the hell out of our other catchers. So, the question becomes, is the upgrade in defense really worth the automatic out in the lineup?

 

I'm not so sure it is.

 

Plus, on an unrelated note, it really pisses me off that Barrett is taking blame for the Z dugout incident. He obviously (we have it on tape for crying out loud) didnt do anything, aside from pointing to the scoreboard, to provoke Z's attack. And on top of that, both Barrett AND his teammates said that he was only going to the dugout to make amends when Z went at him again. I love Z, but this is on him. Not Barrett.

 

EDIT:

 

Also, an interesting side note. Even though Barrett's avg/obp is pretty anemic (again, by his standards), he is on pace to beat/tie some of his career highs in offensive categories. For example:

 

-He is currently on a pace to hit 21 HR. His Career high is 16 (He's done that for 3 straight years now)

-He is on a pace for 70RBI (i know, totally team oriented). His career high is 65.

-He is on a pace to hit 23 doubles. He hit 25 last year (though his career high is 33)

-He is on a pace to get 139 hits. His career high is 131.

 

not sure it means anything..but..interesting.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Roast

[CubColtPacer]

 

Plus, on an unrelated note, it really pisses me off that Barrett is taking blame for the Z dugout incident. He obviously (we have it on tape for crying out loud) didnt do anything, aside from pointing to the scoreboard, to provoke Z's attack. And on top of that, both Barrett AND his teammates said that he was only going to the dugout to make amends when Z went at him again. I love Z, but this is on him. Not Barrett.

 

I agree it's Z's problem. It doesn't look like Z and Barrett were going to be quite comfortable working with one another again though (by Lou's actions of not wanting to put Barrett in there, and some of Z's reactions at the time of the trade). It may be Z's fault that it was that way, but it was still for a problem for the club, and Barrett was the one that was more expendable of the two in order to solve that problem.

 

Note-this is not the only and maybe not even one of the biggest reasons Barrett was traded. It was a problem though, however small it may have been.

[MPrior]

1. Catchers ERA is...well...I dont want to say bogus, but not completely fair.

 

No, it's okay. You can say bogus. It's a pretty stupid stat.

[SouthSideRyan]

Who stole Meph?

[A New Era]

Cub non-Barrett catchers are hitting .157/.228/.241 as catchers in 92 PAs this season. Not sure we can keep that up and compete.

 

yeah, with pie struggling and ss being a question mark, the cubs are likely in trouble offensively.

 

For now, I like Fontenot at SS.

 

Catcher is more important. (plus cf, but hopefully pie can break out of the slump.)

 

Why haven't we brought soto up? Has he been struggling?

 

Probably because we are on a 7 game winning streak yunno? :wink: Hey as long as we are winning keep that core chemistry going!!

[jjgman21]

Right now you just have to hope that when Bowen is playing, he draws walks since he has shown that he can be patient.

 

And with Koyie, hopefully he can come through with the big hit here and there because I can't see much more happening.

 

And I would love to see Soto also, but I guess that won't be happening since Hill is out of options.

 

 

is Bowen out of options?

 

03 appears to be a Sept callup

04 he was bounced back and fourth and appears to have been sent down in late August (option 1)

05 never called up

06 up all year

07 up all year

 

he should have one, if not two options left, right?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

We definitely could use an upgrade at catcher. I'm just not sure who would be available.

 

I'd love to get Salty from the Braves, but that would be very expensive. It would cost us one of Hill or Marshall and maybe more, and I don't think our rotation can take that hit right now.