6/18 Games (off day for Cubs)

[killthegoat06]

7 back yay.

 

 

Brewers WON. :D

[IWU_CUBS_FAN]

Crap. What is that now? A 7-game lead?

Yup.

 

well at least the cubs are in second place by themselves again and only chasing one team....they have a game on thursday when the brew crew is off....but seriously they need to have that lead around 5 or 4 by the time the crew comes in next week

[killthegoat06]

Crap. What is that now? A 7-game lead?

Yup.

 

well at least the cubs are in second place by themselves again and only chasing one team....they have a game on thursday when the brew crew is off....but seriously they need to have that lead around 5 or 4 by the time the crew comes in next week

 

Good luck with that. How about 6 by the end of june? :wink:

[UMFan83]

You know what, I still want the Brewers to lose and hope the Cubs get their crap together, but I find it hard to hate this Brewers team. Sure they are our "rivals" or something, but this team has suffered with sub-.500 teams for so long in a small market that its good to see that planning and smart GM moves have got this team good again. It's refreshing to see after watching the Cubs flounder with their one year plans year after year.

 

So my point is, if the Cubs continue to flounder, I am rooting for the Brewers to win in the playoffs.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

You know what, I still want the Brewers to lose and hope the Cubs get their crap together, but I find it hard to hate this Brewers team. Sure they are our "rivals" or something, but this team has suffered with sub-.500 teams for so long in a small market that its good to see that planning and smart GM moves have got this team good again. It's refreshing to see after watching the Cubs flounder with their one year plans year after year.

 

So my point is, if the Cubs continue to flounder, I am rooting for the Brewers to win in the playoffs.

 

I think a lot of people here on the board would be in agreement with you. I see very little Brewer hate here.

[IWU_CUBS_FAN]

You know what, I still want the Brewers to lose and hope the Cubs get their crap together, but I find it hard to hate this Brewers team. Sure they are our "rivals" or something, but this team has suffered with sub-.500 teams for so long in a small market that its good to see that planning and smart GM moves have got this team good again. It's refreshing to see after watching the Cubs flounder with their one year plans year after year.

 

So my point is, if the Cubs continue to flounder, I am rooting for the Brewers to win in the playoffs.

 

I think a lot of people here on the board would be in agreement with you. I see very little Brewer hate here.

 

yeah i dont hate the brewers like the sox and cards, but i still want them to lose everyday b/c i still think the cubs have a shot at this division, but its gonna take a lot

[Brian]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

[sunnydoo]

Sure they are our "rivals" or something, but this team has suffered with sub-.500 teams for so long in a small market that its good to see that planning and smart GM moves have got this team good again.

 

Milwaukee Brewers last pennant...1982.

Chicago Cubs last pennant....1945.

 

I feel no sorrow.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

[Andy]

For the record, this marks the 4th year in a row that an NL Central team has jumped out to a ridiculously large lead.

 

At least it's not the Cardinals this time I guess.

[UMFan83]

Sure they are our "rivals" or something, but this team has suffered with sub-.500 teams for so long in a small market that its good to see that planning and smart GM moves have got this team good again.

 

Milwaukee Brewers last pennant...1982.

Chicago Cubs last pennant....1945.

 

I feel no sorrow.

 

Oh I agree, but at least we've seen 4 playoff appearences, a division title and a playoff series win since then. I was born in 1983, so for me we've both been suffering my whole life.

[Derwood]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

[Keener98]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

Not one of ours. Originally a Dodger, with a couple other stops before coming here.

[CubColtPacer]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

K. Hill is not from the Cubs organization-not sure about the rest. Plus, Lee and Ramirez are fruits from the organization as well in a way.

[UMFan83]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

Interesting that most of our homegrown players are pitchers, while a majority of the Brewers are positional players.

[98navigator]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

Interesting that most of our homegrown players are pitchers, while a majority of the Brewers are positional players.

 

I heard Andy MacPhail say many times that his organizational philosphy was to emphasis pitching. He wanted to develop pitching for the big club but he had little interest in developing position players, as a whole. The farmsystem was supposed to be used to acquire position players... The first part of his plan worked until Wood and Prior got hurt (when we had an entirely homegrown rotation).

 

 

On the topic of the Brewers, I really don't care about that team at all except when they stand in the way of the Cubs. However, their fans tend to be very hateful toward us (Cubs fans). I've visited a number of Brewers fan sites and the level of vitriol for the Cubs and Cubs fans is through the roof! I'd like to see that team fail if for no other reason than to shut up their fandom.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

Interesting that most of our homegrown players are pitchers, while a majority of the Brewers are positional players.

 

I heard Andy MacPhail say many times that his organizational philosphy was to emphasis pitching. He wanted to develop pitching for the big club but he had little interest in developing position players, as a whole. The farmsystem was supposed to be used to acquire position players... The first part of his plan worked until Wood and Prior got hurt (when we had an entirely homegrown rotation).

 

 

On the topic of the Brewers, I really don't care about that team at all except when they stand in the way of the Cubs. However, their fans tend to be very hateful toward us (Cubs fans). I've visited a number of Brewers fan sites and the level of vitriol for the Cubs and Cubs fans is through the roof! I'd like to see that team fail if for no other reason than to shut up their fandom.

 

I think it is because they get tired of all the Cub fans at County Stadium/Miller Park.

[TruffleShuffle]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

 

The difference is that a lot of the Cubs' homegrown players are just bit players - I mean, four of the players are middle relievers, one's a backup catcher. Only in starting pitching are the Cubs represented by real impact talent. Fielder is becoming one of best 1B in the game, Weeks is a solid talent at second, Hardy has become a very good SS, Hall was very good last year, Hart has a 136 OPS+, Braun 124, Jenkins 130. And they have a number of other fairly young guys (Capuano, Bush, Vargas, Turnbow) who came from outside, but were acquires in trades. Most of the Cubs' top talent has been signed via free agency.

 

The Brewers built their team the right way, and they're seeing the benefits now. They really do deserve to win the division.

[jersey cubs fan]

Most of the Cubs' top talent has been signed via free agency.

 

Soriano, Lilly, Marquis and Dempster are the only "top" talent signed via free agency.

[98navigator]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

Interesting that most of our homegrown players are pitchers, while a majority of the Brewers are positional players.

 

I heard Andy MacPhail say many times that his organizational philosphy was to emphasis pitching. He wanted to develop pitching for the big club but he had little interest in developing position players, as a whole. The farmsystem was supposed to be used to acquire position players... The first part of his plan worked until Wood and Prior got hurt (when we had an entirely homegrown rotation).

 

 

On the topic of the Brewers, I really don't care about that team at all except when they stand in the way of the Cubs. However, their fans tend to be very hateful toward us (Cubs fans). I've visited a number of Brewers fan sites and the level of vitriol for the Cubs and Cubs fans is through the roof! I'd like to see that team fail if for no other reason than to shut up their fandom.

 

I think it is because they get tired of all the Cub fans at County Stadium/Miller Park.

 

Those Cubs fans help pay that team's bills. They should have welcomed the sell outs. Actually, it's a win-win proposition because both teams benefit from the attendance. However, Brewers fans can't blame Cubs fans for the direct marketing that the Brewers organization has done in Chicago over the last 10+ years

 

It's fashionable now to say "take back Miller Park" but for years the Brewers sent mail to Cubs fans extolling the benefits of Miller Park (price, availability of tickets, and relative closeness of the faculty). If they think that Cubs fans are going to suddenly stop going, they are sadly mistaken. The disturbing thing is, I've read many Brewers fans refuse to go to Miller Park when the Cubs are in town yet, they bemoan the numbers of Cubs fans in attendance. That's just ridiculous. If they sold out their own stadium there would be little room for outside fans.

[CubColtPacer]

Most of the Cubs' top talent has been signed via free agency.

 

Soriano, Lilly, Marquis and Dempster are the only "top" talent signed via free agency.

 

Exactly. Should the Cubs system be faulted for trading for top talent using their farm rather than keeping them? I say that if you can develop a prospect so that they are traded for an impact player that should still be considered a success of the farm system.

 

With that in mind, the Cubs as a direct result of their farm system have their two best hitters (Lee and Ramirez), their starting CF (Pie) and their starter at SS/2B (Theriot-he's getting enough at-bats to be a starter even without a set position), their top 2 starting pitchers (Z and Hill), their 5th starter (Marshall), and two setup men, a LOOGY, and a long man (Wuertz, Marmol, Ohman, Gallagher). That's a pretty decent collection of players that was put together through the work of the farm.

[98navigator]

The difference is that a lot of the Cubs' homegrown players are just bit players - I mean, four of the players are middle relievers, one's a backup catcher. Only in starting pitching are the Cubs represented by real impact talent. Fielder is becoming one of best 1B in the game, Weeks is a solid talent at second, Hardy has become a very good SS, Hall was very good last year, Hart has a 136 OPS+, Braun 124, Jenkins 130. And they have a number of other fairly young guys (Capuano, Bush, Vargas, Turnbow) who came from outside, but were acquires in trades. Most of the Cubs' top talent has been signed via free agency.

 

The Brewers built their team the right way, and they're seeing the benefits now. They really do deserve to win the division.

 

Deserve to win? This makes no sense. They built their team this way because they didn't have the resources to go the FA route. 20 + years of losing is not a choice, it was the only way.

 

The team with the most wins at the end of the season will earn the division (and it won't matter how those players were acquired).

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

The amazing thing is that the Brewers are a catcher away from being able to field a completely home grown team.

 

On the broadcast today, they mentioned that 10 players on the team are from their own system.

 

and the Cubs have 8 or 9

 

EDIT: 10 actually, assuming none of these guys came over in a trade that I don't remember:

 

Gallagher

Hill

Marmol

Marshall

Ohman

Wuertz

Zambrano

 

K Hill

Theriot

Pie

 

Interesting that most of our homegrown players are pitchers, while a majority of the Brewers are positional players.

 

I heard Andy MacPhail say many times that his organizational philosphy was to emphasis pitching. He wanted to develop pitching for the big club but he had little interest in developing position players, as a whole. The farmsystem was supposed to be used to acquire position players... The first part of his plan worked until Wood and Prior got hurt (when we had an entirely homegrown rotation).

 

 

On the topic of the Brewers, I really don't care about that team at all except when they stand in the way of the Cubs. However, their fans tend to be very hateful toward us (Cubs fans). I've visited a number of Brewers fan sites and the level of vitriol for the Cubs and Cubs fans is through the roof! I'd like to see that team fail if for no other reason than to shut up their fandom.

 

I think it is because they get tired of all the Cub fans at County Stadium/Miller Park.

 

Those Cubs fans help pay that team's bills. They should have welcomed the sell outs. Actually, it's a win-win proposition because both teams benefit from the attendance. However, Brewers fans can't blame Cubs fans for the direct marketing that the Brewers organization has done in Chicago over the last 10+ years

 

It's fashionable now to say "take back Miller Park" but for years the Brewers sent mail to Cubs fans extolling the benefits of Miller Park (price, availability of tickets, and relative closeness of the faculty). If they think that Cubs fans are going to suddenly stop going, they are sadly mistaken. The disturbing thing is, I've read many Brewers fans refuse to go to Miller Park when the Cubs are in town yet, they bemoan the numbers of Cubs fans in attendance. That's just ridiculous. If they sold out their own stadium there would be little room for outside fans.

 

I agree with what you're saying. The Brewer organization was smart to solicit to Cub fans because overall it did/does help them from a financial standpoint.

 

And it is smart to then turn around and devise a promotion/slogan such as "take back Miller Park". It adds fuel to the rivalry atleast from a Milwaukee standpoint. The thing is they created a rivalry of sorts atleast a rivalry for them, but as long as the Cardinals are around the Cubs will never view it as a "true rivalry".

 

Note: I have no idea what is going on with the font size in my previous posts.

[TruffleShuffle]

Most of the Cubs' top talent has been signed via free agency.

 

Soriano, Lilly, Marquis and Dempster are the only "top" talent signed via free agency.

 

okay, but Lee and ARam were acquired in large part as salary dumps, and then signed to large contracts later. They certainly weren't the young, cheap, pre-arbitration talent that the Cubs have been so inept at developing.

[TruffleShuffle]

Most of the Cubs' top talent has been signed via free agency.

 

Soriano, Lilly, Marquis and Dempster are the only "top" talent signed via free agency.

 

Exactly. Should the Cubs system be faulted for trading for top talent using their farm rather than keeping them? I say that if you can develop a prospect so that they are traded for an impact player that should still be considered a success of the farm system.

 

With that in mind, the Cubs as a direct result of their farm system have their two best hitters (Lee and Ramirez), their starting CF (Pie) and their starter at SS/2B (Theriot-he's getting enough at-bats to be a starter even without a set position), their top 2 starting pitchers (Z and Hill), their 5th starter (Marshall), and two setup men, a LOOGY, and a long man (Wuertz, Marmol, Ohman, Gallagher). That's a pretty decent collection of players that was put together through the work of the farm.

 

The Cubs didn't trade "top talent." Choi has been a bust, and his star had dimmed a bit when they dealt him to Florida. Hill and Bruback were hardly premium prospects either. Let's be honest, neither of those deals were totally about the quality of the players involved. The deals were largely made for financial reasons.

 

So taking that into consideration, the real contribution of the farm system to the position players on the big-league club right now is a talented but unproven CF and a SS/2B who doesn't have enough bat to warrant playing every day. That's not getting the job done, not even close.