Lou Piniella veering into Dusty Baker Territory

[don_kessinger_was_good]

You need a big hit. Sacks are loaded. One out. Late in the game. You have Ryan Theriot and his good plate patience, and .300+ BA on the bench. Though lefty, you have Daryl Ward and Cliff Floyd available as well, each of whom are fly-ball hitters.

 

So of course, you let Neifi! (Izturis) hit. Brilliant!!

 

Then, the next half-inning, your kid pitcher is clearly tiring. He's pitched a brilliant game. But, he just let a man on in a 1-0 game, and a RH hitter who is quickly becoming a Cub Killer is coming to the plate. So, you go to the mound, and.....leave the kid in. Boink. Home run.

 

Ninth inning, down a run, but not dead yet. De Rosa triples, a mere base hit ties the game! RH pitcher in, Ward (the guy you signed EXACTLY for situations like this) on the bench. You decide to use....Jock Jones. Splat.

 

Ball game! Good call, Dusty!! Er, I mean Lou.

[Mark_R]

Just wait until Lou implements the Cubbie Swagger he was talking about!!!

 

I bet he's coming up with a fishing analogy as we speak.

[abuck1220]

You need a big hit. Sacks are loaded. One out. Late in the game. You have Ryan Theriot and his good plate patience, and .300+ BA on the bench. Though lefty, you have Daryl Ward and Cliff Floyd available as well, each of whom are fly-ball hitters.

 

So of course, you let Neifi! (Izturis) hit. Brilliant!!

 

 

man, that would have been a good time to pinch hit their rh power bat off the bench.

 

oh wait, they don't have one because this is the worst constructed team 100 mil ever built.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

are pitch counts down this year?

[muntjack]

You need a big hit. Sacks are loaded. One out. Late in the game. You have Ryan Theriot and his good plate patience, and .300+ BA on the bench. Though lefty, you have Daryl Ward and Cliff Floyd available as well, each of whom are fly-ball hitters.

 

So of course, you let Neifi! (Izturis) hit. Brilliant!!

 

Then, the next half-inning, your kid pitcher is clearly tiring. He's pitched a brilliant game. But, he just let a man on in a 1-0 game, and a RH hitter who is quickly becoming a Cub Killer is coming to the plate. So, you go to the mound, and.....leave the kid in. Boink. Home run.

 

Ninth inning, down a run, but not dead yet. De Rosa triples, a mere base hit ties the game! RH pitcher in, Ward (the guy you signed EXACTLY for situations like this) on the bench. You decide to use....Jock Jones. Splat.

 

Ball game! Good call, Dusty!! Er, I mean Lou.

 

Ward is 1 for 7 against Hoffman with 4 Ks.

 

Jacque is 1 for 2.

 

Just saying.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

You need a big hit. Sacks are loaded. One out. Late in the game. You have Ryan Theriot and his good plate patience, and .300+ BA on the bench. Though lefty, you have Daryl Ward and Cliff Floyd available as well, each of whom are fly-ball hitters.

 

So of course, you let Neifi! (Izturis) hit. Brilliant!!

 

 

man, that would have been a good time to pinch hit their rh power bat off the bench.

 

oh wait, they don't have one because this is the worst constructed team 100 mil ever built.

 

Of course, the Cubs had a guy for their bench exactly as you describe, but Jim Hendry decided an injured, going-nowhere, zero-hope AA pitcher was worth more. The guy's name was Phil Nevin, he would've been good to have right about there!

 

100 years of suck, we're good at one thing at least.....

[questionmarkgrace]

thats the second time ive seen little cesar run a count to 3 and 1 with the bases loaded and he promptly swung at the next pitch. He did it in NY against the mets.

 

3 and 1 is normally a hitters count but with the pitcher struggling to throw strikes, having the bases juiced, and one strike to give, and little Cesar at the plate he should not have the green light. In fact Cesar should never have the green light. Not to mention having pinch hitters available.

[Soriano12]

I nominate General Zod for next Cubs manager

 

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10101814A~Terence-Stamp-General-Zod-Posters.jpg

[Abe Frohman]

I nominate General Zod for next Cubs manager

 

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10101814A~Terence-Stamp-General-Zod-Posters.jpg

 

That's actually a pretty good idea.

 

It would probably get old quick the way he would ask the other managers to kneel before the game at the lineup swaps, though.

[David]

I have no problem with Jacque facing a RH pitcher. None at all.

[Careless]

He's not just Dusty, he's Dusty with severe ADHD

[Rob]

Lou has been such a tease this year. He flirts with good ideas, and then discards them.

 

Use Theriot as the everyday SS to get Izturis out of the lineup? Let's do it for a week and then can the idea.

 

Guzman as our fifth starter? Let's give him three starts, and then pull him after he only gave up a single run in two of them.

 

Murton at the top of the lineup? Let's try it a few times to start off the season and then use him in a strict platoon.

 

Pie in CF? Let's give him 50 PA to work through his adjustment phase and then use him strictly as a defensive replacement and pinch runner.

 

And that's not even saying anything about his absolutely horrid managing of the bullpen and his insatiable need to double-switch when unnecessary. Oh, and how many bad times he's picked to try hit-and-runs.

 

After Pagan's 0/4 night, I fully expect Jacque to start against the next five lefties.

 

I'm actually starting to miss Dusty Baker. At least his mistakes were made once, and you knew what they were after you saw the lineup card... and you always knew he'd bugger the pitch count. But at least as we went in to close games, you didn't know he'd be doing his best to proactively ruin our chances come the sixth inning.

 

Anybody else here noticing Fredi Gonzalez has a better win% in Florida with crappier players?

[Larry Horse]

Uncle Lou has pulled off some head-scratchers this year.

 

I have this sinking feeling at the end of his tenure I'm going to be saying the same thing about him that I did about Dusty.

[BCVM22]

Use Theriot as the everyday SS to get Izturis out of the lineup? Let's do it for a week and then can the idea

 

There's no indication he's "canned" the idea. Before tonight, Theriot had started the last 9 games in a row. Even a proverbial Energizer bunny like Riot needs a night off every once in a while. I'd be very surprising if he wasn't back in the lineup tomorrow night.

 

I do agree that Lou should have pinch-hit Theriot for Izturis in the 7th, though.

[Drew Doughty]

Uncle Lou has pulled off some head-scratchers this year.

 

I have this sinking feeling at the end of his tenure I'm going to be saying the same thing about him that I did about Dusty.

 

you're going to wait that long? i'm already on the "lou sucks" bandwagon.

[Rob]

Uncle Lou has pulled off some head-scratchers this year.

 

I have this sinking feeling at the end of his tenure I'm going to be saying the same thing about him that I did about Dusty.

 

you're going to wait that long? i'm already on the "lou sucks" bandwagon.

 

I was pissed off about the signing when we made it... then he did such a great job in the offseason and talked such a great game. It was obviously too good to be true, though.

 

We would have been much better off with Fredi Gonzalez.

[sunnydoo]

You guys are way off base for this kind of thread which is totally ridiculous.

 

Two storied managers- both with 1100+ wins in their careers, both with NL pennants in the recent past (one won a WS, the other lost), both former all stars with 18+ years of service in the bigs- and we get the same result.

 

Instead of maybe thinking the problem is with them, maybe we should take a good hard look in the mirror to see what is the same...Hendry, Rothschild, Tribune Mgt, and Wrigley Field and maybe doing something about them.

[Careless]

You guys are way off base for this kind of thread which is totally ridiculous.

 

Two storied managers- both with 1100+ wins in their careers, both with NL pennants in the recent past (one won a WS, the other lost), both former all stars with 18+ years of service in the bigs- and we get the same result.

 

Instead of maybe thinking the problem is with them, maybe we should take a good hard look in the mirror to see what is the same...Hendry, Rothschild, Tribune Mgt, and Wrigley Field and maybe doing something about them.

the (I hope) well understood failures of Hendry do not make lou any less of a problem. In fact, it removes the possibility for an authoritative voice of reason giving input onto lou, making his flaws more dangerous

[Guest]

You guys are way off base for this kind of thread which is totally ridiculous.

 

Two storied managers- both with 1100+ wins in their careers, both with NL pennants in the recent past (one won a WS, the other lost), both former all stars with 18+ years of service in the bigs- and we get the same result.

 

Instead of maybe thinking the problem is with them, maybe we should take a good hard look in the mirror to see what is the same...Hendry, Rothschild, Tribune Mgt, and Wrigley Field and maybe doing something about them.

 

Certainly Hendry is to blame for the construction of these teams, the Trib can share some blame and Rothschild has had mixed results at best. But let's not let Dusty or Lou off the hook just because they had a "proven" track record elsewhere (i.e. riding on the coattails of better teams - better teams that covered up their deficiencies).

 

I mean, you seriously think Wrigley Field is a bigger problem than Dusty or Lou's managing?

[seanimal]

You guys are way off base for this kind of thread which is totally ridiculous.

 

Two storied managers- both with 1100+ wins in their careers, both with NL pennants in the recent past (one won a WS, the other lost), both former all stars with 18+ years of service in the bigs- and we get the same result.

 

Instead of maybe thinking the problem is with them, maybe we should take a good hard look in the mirror to see what is the same...Hendry, Rothschild, Tribune Mgt, and Wrigley Field and maybe doing something about them.

 

Certainly Hendry is to blame for the construction of these teams, the Trib can share some blame and Rothschild has had mixed results at best. But let's not let Dusty or Lou off the hook just because they had a "proven" track record elsewhere (i.e. riding on the coattails of better teams - better teams that covered up their deficiencies).

 

And who's responsible for those better teams?

 

Aren't managers only on the hook for +/- 5 or so wins/losses a year according to Bill James?

 

The stadium argument is ludicrous IMO, as the Cubs and their opponents share every advantage and disadvantage equally at best. In reality, it probably figures in the Cubs' favor. Poorly constructed teams are poorly constructed teams, and for the most part of the last 98 years, that is what the Cubs have been, sprinkled with some bad 'luck'.

[Tracer Bullet]

Lou has been such a tease this year. He flirts with good ideas, and then discards them.

 

Use Theriot as the everyday SS to get Izturis out of the lineup? Let's do it for a week and then can the idea.

 

Guzman as our fifth starter? Let's give him three starts, and then pull him after he only gave up a single run in two of them.

 

Murton at the top of the lineup? Let's try it a few times to start off the season and then use him in a strict platoon.

 

Pie in CF? Let's give him 50 PA to work through his adjustment phase and then use him strictly as a defensive replacement and pinch runner.

 

And that's not even saying anything about his absolutely horrid managing of the bullpen and his insatiable need to double-switch when unnecessary. Oh, and how many bad times he's picked to try hit-and-runs.

 

After Pagan's 0/4 night, I fully expect Jacque to start against the next five lefties.

 

I'm actually starting to miss Dusty Baker. At least his mistakes were made once, and you knew what they were after you saw the lineup card... and you always knew he'd bugger the pitch count. But at least as we went in to close games, you didn't know he'd be doing his best to proactively ruin our chances come the sixth inning.

 

Anybody else here noticing Fredi Gonzalez has a better win% in Florida with crappier players?

 

This is a great summary of my problems with Lou, except for the part about missing Dusty. His mistakes were made much more than once. I would love to have Gonzalez or some other young-blood manager in here. I'm tired of the old guard.

[Tracer Bullet]

You guys are way off base for this kind of thread which is totally ridiculous.

 

Two storied managers- both with 1100+ wins in their careers, both with NL pennants in the recent past (one won a WS, the other lost), both former all stars with 18+ years of service in the bigs- and we get the same result.

 

Instead of maybe thinking the problem is with them, maybe we should take a good hard look in the mirror to see what is the same...Hendry, Rothschild, Tribune Mgt, and Wrigley Field and maybe doing something about them.

 

Speaking of ridiculous...

 

Seriously, "storied" managers? I suppose it's accurate in that there are a lot of stories about Lou and his temper and Dusty likes to tell a lot of stories about fishing. But we're not talking Earl Weaver over here. Former All-Stars? And that's relevant because... Really - the ASG and voting is a joke, but even if they were perennial all stars, does that mean they'd be good managers (or, more accurately, does it mean they are/were good when they're here)? You want Barry Bonds to come manage this team when he retires b/c he's a player with a great career?

 

Hendry takes a huge part of the blame b/c he constructs this crap. But Dusty and Lou have input into some of those acquisitions and decisions regarding who comes up to the bigs and who gets sent down. And they take these bad players and put them in the lineup in ways that don't make success more likely. They mismanage the pitching staff. So yes, they get some blame too.

 

But that's ok, it's just another chapter in their storied careers.

[Shawon12]

i know you guys are frusturated, but it's quite sophmoric to think any of this is Lou's fault.

 

Your taking the players inadequacies out on him.

[Tracer Bullet]

i know you guys are frusturated, but it's quite sophmoric to think any of this is Lou's fault.

 

Your taking the players inadequacies out on him.

 

No, I don't think Lou gets a pass. He's not putting guys in a position to succeed (Izturis never ever ever ever gets to bat 2nd in any lineup ever). He's making knee jerk reactions to things (like Dempster's 1 bad inning, Guzman's cramps) and just generally jerking guys around (in the pen, in the OF, in the lineup generally). I don't think you get the best out of your players when there isn't a relatively set lineup (not just in terms of batting order, but also who's starting and what position, etc) for an extended period of time. Every week, every day, the starters and the order change.

 

Lou said he liked the versatility of the players, but I think he's been using that characteristic as an excuse to continually change guys around to the detriment of the team.

[Rob]

i know you guys are frusturated, but it's quite sophmoric to think any of this is Lou's fault.

 

Your taking the players inadequacies out on him.

 

I must have missed the part where Lou didn't actually make any of the mistakes I listed on the first page. How sophomoric of me.