Lou's shake-up: Guzman and his 3.18 ERA to pen

[USSoccer]

This is stupid.

 

Is Marshall going to come up? He's been pretty awesome so far this season down in the minors.

 

Marshall, Lilly, and Hill in the same rotation. All three are basically the same pitches with similar styles. That would be stupid. I heard Bruce Levine said there is talk about making Demptser a starter! Now that would be stupid!

 

So what, you want to revisit Wade F. Miller as a starter? The guy who still thinks he can throw 96 but really can't crack 88? The guy who sucked in every appearance? The guy the organization should know has no upside or future?

 

Put him in the bullpen if you don't think Howry can cut it.

 

True. I don't know. I'm getting a headache and the game didn't even start yet.

 

If Piniella and Hendry really think the problem with this team is the late inning set up role, they need to wake up.

 

If they want to fix it, there's no shortage of better options. Trade Eyre. Demote him to the 3rd lefty in the pen. Use Howry as the 3rd option behind Wuertz and Marmol. Wasn't Marmol called up to strike guys out? Now you are going to have Guzman and Marmol not getting any work in a bullpen for the sake of depth.

 

This is so stupid it's sadly predictable. Baseball has got to have the dumbest collection of people in positions of power.

[Guest]

So my guess is that nobody believes Lou that he thinks the problems with cramping will continue if Guzman continues to start? I'm not sure I do either, but it has been at least 3 starts that he has had to leave in either the second half of last year or the first half of this year with cramps. I guess it is reasonable to consider that they may continue.

 

I don't believe it. And I am pretty sure it was 2 starts - one for Iowa last season and the one on Thursday.

 

Z has had to leave as many games over the past few years because of cramping.

 

He had to leave the start on Sept 3 for the Cubs last year with cramping as well.

 

So the same amount as Z in the past few years.

[USSoccer]

Marshall doesn't have close to the same kind of ability Guzman has to strike people out.

 

Who in everything that's good and holy is referring to ability? I'm talking about production. Marshall should pick up for Guzman just nicely.

 

Guzman's success is directly related to his ability to make opposing hitters swing and miss. Marshall is a guy who has to have a low BAA and low WHIP to succeed, because if he's not striking out overly aggressive AAA hitters, he's not going to strike out ML hitters, which means it's going to be VERY hard for him to duplicate the results.

[Rusch33]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

[USSoccer]

So my guess is that nobody believes Lou that he thinks the problems with cramping will continue if Guzman continues to start? I'm not sure I do either, but it has been at least 3 starts that he has had to leave in either the second half of last year or the first half of this year with cramps. I guess it is reasonable to consider that they may continue.

 

I don't believe it. And I am pretty sure it was 2 starts - one for Iowa last season and the one on Thursday.

 

Z has had to leave as many games over the past few years because of cramping.

 

He had to leave the start on Sept 3 for the Cubs last year with cramping as well.

 

Then the incompetent training staff need to make sure he hydrates himself properly before his starts.

 

Cramping is no reason to put a good starter in the pen.

[Guest]

Marshall doesn't have close to the same kind of ability Guzman has to strike people out.

 

Who in everything that's good and holy is referring to ability? I'm talking about production. Marshall should pick up for Guzman just nicely.

 

Guzman's success is directly related to his ability to make opposing hitters swing and miss. Marshall is a guy who has to have a low BAA and low WHIP to succeed, because if he's not striking out overly aggressive AAA hitters, he's not going to strike out ML hitters, which means it's going to be VERY hard for him to duplicate the results.

 

15 Ks in 24.2 AAA innings (and 8 BBs).

[USSoccer]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

As several people have pointed out, there are other setup otions besides Eyre and Howry. There are 3 bloody lefties in the pen, along with 2 options in AAA. There are 2 perfectly acceptable RH setup options in Marmol and Wuertz that you can use before Howry, and a couple more in AAA and AA that you can use. There's no good reason to justify this lunacy.

 

Maybe Piniella ought to learn from his own mistakes and not put those two gascans in a position to blow games until they fix their issues, instead of crippling his starting rotation.

[Guest]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

I didn't cry foul over the bullpen. Whoops.

 

What would I do? Make Wuertz the primary set-up man. Use whomever in the 7th inning - Howry has show signs of breaking out of his slump. Between Marmol and Guzman, at least one of them is only going to get bench time. There are 6 other guys in the pen besides Eyre.

 

Marshall will do worse than Guzman in the rotation. Guzman has the higher ceiling and is the guy you want in the rotation for years to come, why cut his innings as he's still learning how to get big leaguers out.

 

Who cares if you stop the bleeding? This team isn't making the playoffs.

Edited May 19, 2007 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Guest]

So my guess is that nobody believes Lou that he thinks the problems with cramping will continue if Guzman continues to start? I'm not sure I do either, but it has been at least 3 starts that he has had to leave in either the second half of last year or the first half of this year with cramps. I guess it is reasonable to consider that they may continue.

 

I don't believe it. And I am pretty sure it was 2 starts - one for Iowa last season and the one on Thursday.

 

Z has had to leave as many games over the past few years because of cramping.

 

He had to leave the start on Sept 3 for the Cubs last year with cramping as well.

 

Then the incompetent training staff need to make sure he hydrates himself properly before his starts.

 

Cramping is no reason to put a good starter in the pen.

 

Exactly.

[windycityfan]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

Finally someone explains better than I can. Whether it proves to be the solution, who knows. There's certainly no silver bullet approach to this, but I'm all up for bringing Gooz down to the strenghten the pen while Marshall should get the job done as 5th starter.

 

Heck, this is all moot now since it is happening. So let's sit back and let it unfold.

Edited May 19, 2007 by windycityfan

[MPC]

disappointing but not surprising.

[Jon]

I don't think we need bullpen help at all. We've got plenty of options as is.

[USSoccer]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

Finally someone explains better than I can. Whether it proves to be the solution, who knows. There's certainly no silver bullet approach to this, but I'm all up for bringing Gooz down to the strenghten the pen while Marshall should get the job done as 5th starter.

 

Marmol was allegedly brought up to "strengthen the pen". Now one of them is going to sit most of the time and piss away more developmental time.

 

Seriously, if Howry and Eyre are such a damn problem, then make them the last LH and RH options. Don't weaken a more important part of your team to make a less important part marginally stronger.

 

Howry and Eyre being exposed is as much Lou's fault as it is theirs. He's the one that keeps putting them into setup situations.

Edited May 19, 2007 by USSoccer

[CubColtPacer]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

As several people have pointed out, there are other setup otions besides Eyre and Howry. There are 3 bloody lefties in the pen, along with 2 options in AAA. There are 2 perfectly acceptable RH setup options in Marmol and Wuertz that you can use before Howry, and a couple more in AAA and AA that you can use. There's no good reason to justify this lunacy.

 

Maybe Piniella ought to learn from his own mistakes and not put those two gascans in a position to blow games until they fix their issues, instead of crippling his starting rotation.

 

For the most part, Piniella has stopped using Eyre. Only 6 appearances since April 24th, and half of those were either blowouts (the 9th inning of a 7-1 win or a 10-1 win) or extra innings after most everybody else had pitched.

[tfarks]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

I didn't cry foul over the bullpen. Whoops.

 

What would I do? Make Wuertz the primary set-up man. Use whomever in the 7th inning - Howry has show signs of breaking out of his slump. Between Marmol and Guzman, at least one of them is only going to get bench time. There are 6 other guys in the pen besides Eyre.

 

Marshall will do worse than Guzman in the rotation. Guzman has the higher ceiling and is the guy you want in the rotation for years to come, why cut his innings as he's still learning how to get big leaguers out.

 

Who cares if you stop the bleeding? This team isn't making the playoffs.

 

Oh Jesus H. Christ. I am getting so tired of this crap. Look, I understand the complaints about the maneuvering, I too would rather see Guzman in the rotation but can we not count the Cubs out of the playoffs after 40 games? Its ok in the game thread but seriously get a grip, Guzman wasn't starting just for his development.

[Guest]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

I didn't cry foul over the bullpen. Whoops.

 

What would I do? Make Wuertz the primary set-up man. Use whomever in the 7th inning - Howry has show signs of breaking out of his slump. Between Marmol and Guzman, at least one of them is only going to get bench time. There are 6 other guys in the pen besides Eyre.

 

Marshall will do worse than Guzman in the rotation. Guzman has the higher ceiling and is the guy you want in the rotation for years to come, why cut his innings as he's still learning how to get big leaguers out.

 

Who cares if you stop the bleeding? This team isn't making the playoffs.

 

Oh Jesus H. Christ. I am getting so tired of this crap. Look, I understand the complaints about the maneuvering, I too would rather see Guzman in the rotation but can we not count the Cubs out of the playoffs after 40 games? Its ok in the game thread but seriously get a grip, Guzman wasn't starting just for his development.

 

It's my opinion (from the start of the season) that the team was flawed severely and wouldn't make the playoffs. Either way, Guzman in the rotation is a better option than Marshall or Miller and getting 5-6 innings out of the better pitcher is more important if you want to win.

[USSoccer]

Would you rather trot out the same bullpen or try to shore it up by putting someone who's been effective into the bullpen?

 

You guys cry foul that we need help in the bullpen, and then he moves Guzman into the bullpen. You cry foul again.

 

What do you want me to do? Keep trotting Eyre out there? Keep trotting them out there to watch them blow up lead after lead?

 

Have to stop the bleeding somehow.

 

Our starting pitching is fine with whoever takes over the 5th spot as long as it isn't Miller. Marshall should be fine/Marmol should be fine.

 

As several people have pointed out, there are other setup otions besides Eyre and Howry. There are 3 bloody lefties in the pen, along with 2 options in AAA. There are 2 perfectly acceptable RH setup options in Marmol and Wuertz that you can use before Howry, and a couple more in AAA and AA that you can use. There's no good reason to justify this lunacy.

 

Maybe Piniella ought to learn from his own mistakes and not put those two gascans in a position to blow games until they fix their issues, instead of crippling his starting rotation.

 

For the most part, Piniella has stopped using Eyre. Only 6 appearances since April 24th, and half of those were either blowouts (the 9th inning of a 7-1 win or a 10-1 win) or extra innings after most everybody else had pitched.

 

So, then, why call up Marmol and then demote Guzman to the pen? All on account of Howry?

 

That's stupid. You don't need to hurt two guys in order to hide one. If they plan on Marmol starting, they're stupid. If they demote him just so Marshall can pitch, they're equally stupid, because Marshall is not going to be better than Guzman, has a good chance to be worse, and Marmol would be better suited to relief than Guzman would be anyway.

 

This move can't be justified any way you look at it.

[USSoccer]

 

Oh Jesus H. Christ. I am getting so tired of this crap. Look, I understand the complaints about the maneuvering, I too would rather see Guzman in the rotation but can we not count the Cubs out of the playoffs after 40 games? Its ok in the game thread but seriously get a grip, Guzman wasn't starting just for his development.

 

You're right. He was starting because he is the best option to start in the organization right now.

[Balsa]

From the press releases, Guzman's cramping had everything to do with hydration and that is a disgustingly stupid reason to put him in the bullpen.

[USSoccer]

From the press releases, Guzman's cramping had everything to do with hydration and that is a disgustingly stupid reason to put him in the bullpen.

 

God forbid the training staff do anything but tape ankles.

[Guest]

From the press releases, Guzman's cramping had everything to do with hydration and that is a disgustingly stupid reason to put him in the bullpen.

 

God forbid the training staff do anything but tape ankles.

 

You trust them to even do that?

[abuck1220]

people supporting this move don't seem to have a basic understanding of math. as in, you'd rather have more well-pitched innings than fewer well-pitched innings.

 

and this move is even more ridiculous if miller takes his spot. the good news is, guzman would probably still get 5-6 innings a week in that case since he'd probably be the guy to relieve miller in the third inning of all his starts.

Edited May 19, 2007 by abuck1220

[tfarks]

He is. I would have preferred them to give Marmol a chance. With Howry coming back, Wuertz pitching well all season the Cubs may have had their answer. Essentially they are shaking things up for the sake of shaking things up. Not always a bad thing, in this case it is.

[USSoccer]

From the press releases, Guzman's cramping had everything to do with hydration and that is a disgustingly stupid reason to put him in the bullpen.

 

God forbid the training staff do anything but tape ankles.

 

You trust them to even do that?

 

Hell no.

[NCCubFan]

Shove it up your gluteus maximus, Lou. Guzman belongs in the rotation, end of story.