Questions about today's game (5/16)

[NomarSammy]

Ok, I know, I know....everyone wants Hendry fired and Eyre released and that somehow will solve our problems, but after watching the Tivo of this game I have a couple of BIG questions about that 9th inning

 

1) How can Murton not get a double play on the line drive that Castro hit. There should have been 2 out and nobody on. He took his time and made a lazy throw. Anyonre who has the game go back and watch the replay--Newhan was 2 steps from second base when Murton caught the ball and Murton still could not get him--terrible missed play due to casual play.

 

2) Where is the heck was Theriot on the ground ball from Delgado. I mean how many times have we seen Theriot get just absolutely god-awful jumps on ground balls. That should have been game ending double play. Why were we not playing a pull hitter like Delgado towards the 1st/2nd baseman hole anyways??? I was shocked when I watched the replay because that should have been an easy DP.

 

3) You all want to kill eyre on this--he got the DP ball, but play was not made

 

4) Why does Eric Cooper have such a chip on his shoulder with the cubs. He is a Des Moines guy and always on the darn radio around here so I recognize when he is doing a game and he is always mouthing off to cub pitchers--what was that all about in the 9th. He has basically stated on DSM radio what a joke he thinks the cubs organization is--i actually called the radio and complained about him being on. he does his own off-season show with Tim McCelland and I have called commisioners office to ask if they like umps giving their views on players and organizations on the radio--no reply by the way.

 

Ok, I have to sop because I am going to have a heart attack here--if you can answer any of my questions or want to tell me that I am crazy to have seen it this way--please let me know!! I am dying here

[jersey cubs fan]

2) Where is the heck was Theriot on the ground ball from Delgado. I mean how many times have we seen Theriot get just absolutely god-awful jumps on ground balls. That should have been game ending double play. Why were we not playing a pull hitter like Delgado towards the 1st/2nd baseman hole anyways??? I was shocked when I watched the replay because that should have been an easy DP.

 

He was shaded up the middle because of the DP opportunity.

[NomarSammy]

THat is not sound baseball with a left handed pull hitter that they normally put a huge shift on for. No way he should have been that far over just for DP positioning

[C.C.]

The easiest way to start a rally is to start walking people. They scored 5 runs on nothing more then singles and walks.

[Omar]

This is almost identical to what happened when on April 13th against the Reds, Cubs blew a 5-0 lead.

 

Vs. The Reds - Single, Single, Walk, Single, Single, HBP, (Will Ohman in) Walk, Walk... Then Wuertz struck out the side.

 

Today it was Single, Out, Single, Walk, Walk, Single, Single. Probably would've been a lot worse if it wasnt the bottom 9th.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Well, a true right fielder guns down the winning run at the plate fairly easily. Murton really doesn't have the arm for right. It's not his fault he's playing out of position, but his lack of throwing strength is consistently costing us the extra base.

 

Theriot didn't do anything wrong. He was shading up the middle like he was supposed to like jersey said.

 

Eyre got a ground ball. You pray it doesn't find a hole. Eyre did an ok job considering the spot he was in and who he was facing. He wasn't facing a bunch of scrubs like Dempster was.

 

Demp lost this game, not Eyre.

[C.C.]

This is almost identical to what happened when on April 13th against the Reds, Cubs blew a 5-0 lead.

 

Vs. The Reds - Single, Single, Walk, Single, Single, HBP, (Will Ohman in) Walk, Walk... Then Wuertz struck out the side.

 

Today it was Single, Out, Single, Walk, Walk, Single, Single. Probably would've been a lot worse if it wasnt the bottom 9th.

 

It would've been. The Met's still only had 1 out.

[NomarSammy]

that was a real slow hit ball--I still think Theriot should have got there regardless of where he was shading. Plus, if he is shading a pull hitter up the middle he should have at least been leaning towards that hole and made a better jump to get that ball. Just my opinion

[sunnydoo]

Ryan Theriot has average to below average range wherever he plays, which is why i favor him at 2b as opposed to SS. On top of that he was playing more to the bag for the throw.

 

The dumb thing about it is that Delgado is a pull hitter. Facing Eyre, it was more likely that he was going to hit it towards right than left. Delgado also has hit better against lefties than righties this year. http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=113232&statType=1

 

Coaching staff has some culpability in the matter, should have gone righty instead of lefty out of the pen to face Wright and Delgado. And if they cant read the opp batting charts, dont know if anything is going to help them.

Edited May 17, 2007 by sunnydoo

[Soriano12]

Generally, a 4 run lead shouldn't be an issue for a closer, but then again, Dumpster is anything but a closer. He lost us the game today. No one else.

[DiamondMind]

We lost this game due to walks, which is typically the reason.

[Keener98]

Well, a true right fielder guns down the winning run at the plate fairly easily. Murton really doesn't have the arm for right. It's not his fault he's playing out of position, but his lack of throwing strength is consistently costing us the extra base.

 

Theriot didn't do anything wrong. He was shading up the middle like he was supposed to like jersey said.

 

Eyre got a ground ball. You pray it doesn't find a hole. Eyre did an ok job considering the spot he was in and who he was facing. He wasn't facing a bunch of scrubs like Dempster was.

 

Demp lost this game, not Eyre.

 

You have got to be kidding me. Murton or any other right fielder had no shot at that runner. Watch the play over

[CubColtPacer]

Well, a true right fielder guns down the winning run at the plate fairly easily. Murton really doesn't have the arm for right. It's not his fault he's playing out of position, but his lack of throwing strength is consistently costing us the extra base.

 

Theriot didn't do anything wrong. He was shading up the middle like he was supposed to like jersey said.

 

Eyre got a ground ball. You pray it doesn't find a hole. Eyre did an ok job considering the spot he was in and who he was facing. He wasn't facing a bunch of scrubs like Dempster was.

 

Demp lost this game, not Eyre.

 

You have got to be kidding me. Murton or any other right fielder had no shot at that runner. Watch the play over

 

I think Soriano would have had a good shot at him, but he has an exceptional arm. I don't think any average RF arm gets him there.

[NomarSammy]

Just to clarify....I thought Murton should have doubled up Newhan on the Castro line drive. I dont think he should have thrown out gotay at the plate. But honestly, Newhan was 2 steps from second when Murton caught the line drive for out number 1 and there is no reason a major league right foielder does not get a double play in that spot

[Amazing_Grace]

Ryan Theriot has average to below average range wherever he plays, which is why i favor him at 2b as opposed to SS. On top of that he was playing more to the bag for the throw.

 

The dumb thing about it is that Delgado is a pull hitter. Facing Eyre, it was more likely that he was going to hit it towards right than left. Delgado also has hit better against lefties than righties this year. http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=113232&statType=1

 

Coaching staff has some culpability in the matter, should have gone righty instead of lefty out of the pen to face Wright and Delgado. And if they cant read the opp batting charts, dont know if anything is going to help them.

 

Defensive shifts are almost always called from the dugout in this day and age. If anyone gets the blame for Theriot playing in the wrong area, it should be Piniella. I agree the smart play in that case would have been to have the SS shade to the middle anticipating that he would cover 2b when the hitter pulls the ball, and have Theriot play in the hole, which is exactly where the ball ended up being hit.

[gflore34]

We lost this game due to walks, which is typically the reason.

 

Bingo! Despite, the missed DP opportunities, if Dempster doesn't issue two BB's the Cubs quite probably win the game. In fact, if anyone in the Bullpen could throw strikes, there's a good chance the Cubs would have taken 3 of 4 from the Mets.

[rynefan]

Blaming Murton and Theriot? That's ridiculous. Blame Lou. Blame the lousy bullpen, but come on. Walks will KILL you. I don't expect the bullpen to be perfect, but I do think we all have the right to expect them to hold a 4 run lead.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

2) Where is the heck was Theriot on the ground ball from Delgado. I mean how many times have we seen Theriot get just absolutely god-awful jumps on ground balls. That should have been game ending double play. Why were we not playing a pull hitter like Delgado towards the 1st/2nd baseman hole anyways??? I was shocked when I watched the replay because that should have been an easy DP.

 

He was shaded up the middle because of the DP opportunity.

 

Delgado is a dead pull hitter. Theriot, DP opp or not, was incredibly out of position for who was at bat.

[jersey cubs fan]

2) Where is the heck was Theriot on the ground ball from Delgado. I mean how many times have we seen Theriot get just absolutely god-awful jumps on ground balls. That should have been game ending double play. Why were we not playing a pull hitter like Delgado towards the 1st/2nd baseman hole anyways??? I was shocked when I watched the replay because that should have been an easy DP.

 

He was shaded up the middle because of the DP opportunity.

 

Delgado is a dead pull hitter. Theriot, DP opp or not, was incredibly out of position for who was at bat.

 

Do you honestly think Theriot put himself there on his own?

 

The coaches position the fielders in those situations. I guarantee Theriot was standing exactly where somebody told him to be.

 

Oh, and Delgado is not a dead pull hitter. He's had more singles to LF this year than RF. His hit chart shows he's barely hit anything down the line this year.

 

I know it sucks people, but it happens. Ground balls find holes. Dempster lost the game by walking people, but there's no justification for hanging Eyre, Theriot or Murton for this game. Eyre gave up a soft single and a ground ball that trickled through. That's baseball. You can't choose where groundballs are hit.

[justlikethecubs]

I also might point that you position players based on how you are going to pitch them. I would assume with delgado you wouldn't anticipate coming in on him unless it's way in. If he pulls a pitch on the outside part of the plate odds are he doesn't pull it all the way into the hole. He may even try to take it back towards the middle. Lack of execution, poor positioning.. its all hindsight. If Dempster doesnt pitch so poorly to the bottom part of the order, this isnt even a discussion.

[hitamprun]

The easiest way to start a rally is to start walking people. They scored 5 runs on nothing more then singles and walks.

 

Folks, when you rely on a guy with a career WHIP over 1.5 to be your closer, you are asking for trouble. Sure, Dempster got off to a decent start this year, but you knew his long term trend would eventually surface, and it did. He has always had a habit of working behind in the count and walking guys, and on top of that, he gives up more than 1 hit per innings pitched. These aren't exactly the traits you look for in a closer.

 

Dempster is like many other closers that are 1 year wonders. The advance scouts get a read on these guys, and figure out a way to make life miserable for them. With Dempster its easy - all you do is make him throw strikes, and chances are, he will get himself in trouble by walking guys and then give up a hit or two because he turns to toast.

 

Yesterday was obvious, first Dempster was looking down at the mound, like that was the reason he couldn't throw strikes, then he complained to the ump on a pitch 6 inches inside. If that ain't a sign a guy is blowing up, I don't know what is.

[Soriano12]

The easiest way to start a rally is to start walking people. They scored 5 runs on nothing more then singles and walks.

 

Folks, when you rely on a guy with a career WHIP over 1.5 to be your closer, you are asking for trouble. Sure, Dempster got off to a decent start this year, but you knew his long term trend would eventually surface, and it did. He has always had a habit of working behind in the count and walking guys, and on top of that, he gives up more than 1 hit per innings pitched. These aren't exactly the traits you look for in a closer.

 

Dempster is like many other closers that are 1 year wonders. The advance scouts get a read on these guys, and figure out a way to make life miserable for them. With Dempster its easy - all you do is make him throw strikes, and chances are, he will get himself in trouble by walking guys and then give up a hit or two because he turns to toast.

 

Yesterday was obvious, first Dempster was looking down at the mound, like that was the reason he couldn't throw strikes, then he complained to the ump on a pitch 6 inches inside. If that ain't a sign a guy is blowing up, I don't know what is.

 

Yep.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

2) Where is the heck was Theriot on the ground ball from Delgado. I mean how many times have we seen Theriot get just absolutely god-awful jumps on ground balls. That should have been game ending double play. Why were we not playing a pull hitter like Delgado towards the 1st/2nd baseman hole anyways??? I was shocked when I watched the replay because that should have been an easy DP.

 

He was shaded up the middle because of the DP opportunity.

 

Delgado is a dead pull hitter. Theriot, DP opp or not, was incredibly out of position for who was at bat.

 

Do you honestly think Theriot put himself there on his own?

 

The coaches position the fielders in those situations. I guarantee Theriot was standing exactly where somebody told him to be.

 

Oh, and Delgado is not a dead pull hitter. He's had more singles to LF this year than RF. His hit chart shows he's barely hit anything down the line this year.

 

I know it sucks people, but it happens. Ground balls find holes. Dempster lost the game by walking people, but there's no justification for hanging Eyre, Theriot or Murton for this game. Eyre gave up a soft single and a ground ball that trickled through. That's baseball. You can't choose where groundballs are hit.

 

I'm not saying it was Theriot's fault, but he was out of position.

[jersey cubs fan]

The easiest way to start a rally is to start walking people. They scored 5 runs on nothing more then singles and walks.

 

Folks, when you rely on a guy with a career WHIP over 1.5 to be your closer, you are asking for trouble. Sure, Dempster got off to a decent start this year, but you knew his long term trend would eventually surface, and it did. He has always had a habit of working behind in the count and walking guys, and on top of that, he gives up more than 1 hit per innings pitched. These aren't exactly the traits you look for in a closer.

 

Dempster is like many other closers that are 1 year wonders. The advance scouts get a read on these guys, and figure out a way to make life miserable for them. With Dempster its easy - all you do is make him throw strikes, and chances are, he will get himself in trouble by walking guys and then give up a hit or two because he turns to toast.

 

Yesterday was obvious, first Dempster was looking down at the mound, like that was the reason he couldn't throw strikes, then he complained to the ump on a pitch 6 inches inside. If that ain't a sign a guy is blowing up, I don't know what is.

 

Well, his numbers as a reliever have been better than as a starter, including the WHIP. Control has been and always will be an issue for him, which is why it's a shame he had only pitched once in 9 days before yesterday. Loss of control is pretty much inevitable

[jersey cubs fan]

2) Where is the heck was Theriot on the ground ball from Delgado. I mean how many times have we seen Theriot get just absolutely god-awful jumps on ground balls. That should have been game ending double play. Why were we not playing a pull hitter like Delgado towards the 1st/2nd baseman hole anyways??? I was shocked when I watched the replay because that should have been an easy DP.

 

He was shaded up the middle because of the DP opportunity.

 

Delgado is a dead pull hitter. Theriot, DP opp or not, was incredibly out of position for who was at bat.

 

Do you honestly think Theriot put himself there on his own?

 

The coaches position the fielders in those situations. I guarantee Theriot was standing exactly where somebody told him to be.

 

Oh, and Delgado is not a dead pull hitter. He's had more singles to LF this year than RF. His hit chart shows he's barely hit anything down the line this year.

 

I know it sucks people, but it happens. Ground balls find holes. Dempster lost the game by walking people, but there's no justification for hanging Eyre, Theriot or Murton for this game. Eyre gave up a soft single and a ground ball that trickled through. That's baseball. You can't choose where groundballs are hit.

 

I'm not saying it was Theriot's fault, but he was out of position.

 

No he wasn't. Delgado is not a dead pull hitter and he was cheating toward the bag for the DP.