let the whining about playing time begin...

[Abe Frohman]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

[Tracer Bullet]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

 

Anyone specific in mind?

[Abe Frohman]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

 

Anyone specific in mind?

 

Sure. Cabrera.

[Tracer Bullet]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

 

Anyone specific in mind?

 

Sure. Cabrera.

 

Miguel? So are we discussing guys that we actually have a chance to acquire or are we just playing pie in the sky, here?

[jersey cubs fan]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

 

Anyone specific in mind?

 

Sure. Cabrera.

 

Miguel? So are we discussing guys that we actually have a chance to acquire or are we just playing pie in the sky, here?

 

It's hardly pie in the sky. He's not signed past this year, and there's next to no chance Florida keeps him as his salary soars past the $10m mark. His next contract will eclipse what Pujols got. And there's no reason the Cubs can't be the team that gives it to him.

[Amazing_Grace]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

 

Anyone specific in mind?

 

Sure. Cabrera.

 

Miguel? So are we discussing guys that we actually have a chance to acquire or are we just playing pie in the sky, here?

 

It's hardly pie in the sky. He's not signed past this year, and there's next to no chance Florida keeps him as his salary soars past the $10m mark. His next contract will eclipse what Pujols got. And there's no reason the Cubs can't be the team that gives it to him.

 

Cabrera would be a great fit and I'd love to have him in Chicago. I'd trade Floyd, Murton, Jones plus one of Veal/Gallagher if IF IF IF I knew I could resign him.

 

The problem is that we don't know what will happen with the ownership change this offseason. Any other year, that would be a great deal, but will the new owner resign Cabrera? Most offseasons where there's an ownership change end up being basically forfeited, and I doubt the Cubs are an exception. Even without the ownership issue, there's still the possibility of just plain getting outbid by the Yanks or Red Sox.

[imb]

Uh, they could have Pie, Murton, Veal, Gallagher, Jesus, Buddha and Tim if it would bring Cabrera here.

[Tracer Bullet]

Matt Murton doesn't seem to fit the RF mold because the guy just doesn't have the arm. He isn't going to play CF or LF. What do you do with him?

 

Personally, I think Floyd has been a bit misused. He seems like a pretty good fit for the 5 spot in the lineup (don't understand him or Izturis hitting 2), but he doesn't move well in the OF. I don't know why he isn't playing 1B now that DLee is having neck problems. I know it was Glavine pitching last night, but it kinda seems Piniella is playing the averages a bit much with the OFers.

 

Jones can work in CF, but can't hit lefties. I say trade Jones, Floyd, and Murton and get a legit RFer.

 

Anyone specific in mind?

 

Sure. Cabrera.

 

Miguel? So are we discussing guys that we actually have a chance to acquire or are we just playing pie in the sky, here?

 

It's hardly pie in the sky. He's not signed past this year, and there's next to no chance Florida keeps him as his salary soars past the $10m mark. His next contract will eclipse what Pujols got. And there's no reason the Cubs can't be the team that gives it to him.

 

You really think the new owner is going to open up the purse for Cabrera with ARam, Lee, and Soriano already here. I can't see us trying to resign Z and giving a guy like Cabrera what it would take to get him. I think it's pretty near pie in the sky. Even if we could acquire him at the deadline, we'd have a tough time signing him.

 

I'd be absolutely floored if he were playing anywhere other than NY or Boston next year.

[Abe Frohman]

Acquiring Miguel Cabrera is pretty much "Pie in the Sky" for every team in the MLs. How many teams have a front office who pretty much are saying that they are going to do what it takes to win NOW.

 

Sure it is far-fetched, but we aren't really sure who is going to buy this franchise, are we? Let Zambrano walk (which I am not so sure I would like to see) and this becomes a pretty possible way to spend $15 to $18 million a year.

 

Who would you rather see playing for the Cubs in late 2007 - Zambrano or Cabrera?

[SouthSideRyan]

Not that it should be even be discussed, but Cabrera still has 2 years of arbitration ahead of him, I don't know where the talk of him being a FA came from.

 

Back to something more realistic, Matt Murton's arm isn't bad. It's not a great arm, but people talk like he's Jacque Jones '06 out there. Amazing how one bad throw can skew people's opinions. His arm is more than adequate to play RF.(Though I do think arm strength is really overrated when judging a RF.)

[sethuel1]

Someone needs to be dumped. One of Murton/Jones/Floyd has got to go.

 

Personally, I'd trade Murton. Like it or not, Soriano has LF locked up for years to come. Murton looks horrible in RF. If he was an above average offensive corner outfielder, I wouldn't complain, but he's not.

 

Plus Murton is, by far, the most valuable trade chip of the three because of his age so he could be used to bring somebody in who will actually see the field regularly.

 

Relief pitching, plz

bullpen catchers, plz.

[NCCubFan]

Uh, they could have Pie, Murton, Veal, Gallagher, Jesus, Buddha and Tim if it would bring Cabrera here.

Even if that meant the demise of NSBB? :D

[imb]

Uh, they could have Pie, Murton, Veal, Gallagher, Jesus, Buddha and Tim if it would bring Cabrera here.

Even if that meant the demise of NSBB? :D

 

I'd gladly read cubs.com every day if it meant the Cubs would win a world series.

[muntjack]

Someone needs to be dumped. One of Murton/Jones/Floyd has got to go.

 

Personally, I'd trade Murton. Like it or not, Soriano has LF locked up for years to come. Murton looks horrible in RF. If he was an above average offensive corner outfielder, I wouldn't complain, but he's not.

 

I've been saying this for about a month now. Don't get me wrong, I love Matt Murton, and I still think he'll be a very productive player, but there is just no room for a RH bat in the outfield.

 

1. Like most managers, Lou believes in putting as many LH in to face RHP as is possible.

 

2. Izturis, Jones and Floyd are the only LH hitters that play (semi) regularly.

 

3. Jones and Floyd are the only REAL threats from the left side

 

=

 

4. Jones and Floyd will be in the lineup against 90% of RHP & will almost certainly NOT be traded. ( Jones could be if Pie continues to destroy AAA, but that does nothing for Murton)

 

We would have to acquire a big time LH SS or 2B if we want to see MM play regularly, this season or in the future. And there is no big time LH SS or 2B available.

[Tracer Bullet]

Someone needs to be dumped. One of Murton/Jones/Floyd has got to go.

 

Personally, I'd trade Murton. Like it or not, Soriano has LF locked up for years to come. Murton looks horrible in RF. If he was an above average offensive corner outfielder, I wouldn't complain, but he's not.

 

I've been saying this for about a month now. Don't get me wrong, I love Matt Murton, and I still think he'll be a very productive player, but there is just no room for a RH bat in the outfield.

 

1. Like most managers, Lou believes in putting as many LH in to face RHP as is possible.

 

2. Izturis, Jones and Floyd are the only LH hitters that play (semi) regularly.

 

3. Jones and Floyd are the only REAL threats from the left side

 

=

 

4. Jones and Floyd will be in the lineup against 90% of RHP & will almost certainly NOT be traded. ( Jones could be if Pie continues to destroy AAA, but that does nothing for Murton)

 

We would have to acquire a big time LH SS or 2B if we want to see MM play regularly, this season or in the future. And there is no big time LH SS or 2B available.

 

I just don't understand this at all. We don't need more LH bats. We need guys that can hit LHP (or, preferably, guys that can hit both LHP and RHP). The fact that Lou wants more LH bats is just an old traditional stupid thing managers do. It doesn't matter what side of the plate you stand on, what matters is how well you can hit the pitching.

 

One of my biggest problems with trading Murton is it leaves us with an OF of Soriano, JJ, and Floyd. Floyd is no longer an everyday player anyway. But JJ and Floyd both struggle something awful against LHP. When we face a LHP, we're either going to have Soriano, Pagan, DeRosa(?) in the OF or we're going to have to suffer through 3/4 ABs from JJ or Floyd against LHP - which are near automatic outs (Floyd's OBP against LHP hasn't been above .300 since 2003; it's been since '04 for JJ, but that year his SLG against LHP matched his OBP (.329 v. .328 - yikes)). Our bench isn't deep enough to have 2 platoons, especially if we trade Murton.

 

Murton can hit both LHP and RHP. He doesn't slug as well (based on last year's stats) against RHP, but his OBP is still very good (.356). Put him in the 2-spot against all comers for a year and see what happens.

[Abe Frohman]

Not that it should be even be discussed, but Cabrera still has 2 years of arbitration ahead of him, I don't know where the talk of him being a FA came from.

 

Back to something more realistic, Matt Murton's arm isn't bad. It's not a great arm, but people talk like he's Jacque Jones '06 out there. Amazing how one bad throw can skew people's opinions. His arm is more than adequate to play RF.(Though I do think arm strength is really overrated when judging a RF.)

 

Jacque Jones has a fairly strong arm, his throws are just all over the place. Matt Murton does not have a very strong arm (or at least he hasn't shown it yet), but seems to make the right throws to cut off men and seems pretty accurate.

 

How is arm strength overrated for the RF position? The RFer has a much longer throw to 3rd base, and a baseball golden rule is to have a strong arm in RF for this reason. Players know who they can and can't run on, and Matt Murton is someone they can run on.

[jersey cubs fan]

Not that it should be even be discussed, but Cabrera still has 2 years of arbitration ahead of him, I don't know where the talk of him being a FA came from.

 

I'm not saying he's approaching free agency. I'm saying the odds are Florida trades him sooner rather than later. I base that on the theory that there's no way that cheap bastard pays one guy $10+ million, which is what he's about to make. A responsible owner would sign him to a Pujols+ contract today. But I don't see Florida doing that ever.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Not that it should be even be discussed, but Cabrera still has 2 years of arbitration ahead of him, I don't know where the talk of him being a FA came from.

 

Back to something more realistic, Matt Murton's arm isn't bad. It's not a great arm, but people talk like he's Jacque Jones '06 out there. Amazing how one bad throw can skew people's opinions. His arm is more than adequate to play RF.(Though I do think arm strength is really overrated when judging a RF.)

 

Jacque Jones has a fairly strong arm, his throws are just all over the place. Matt Murton does not have a very strong arm (or at least he hasn't shown it yet), but seems to make the right throws to cut off men and seems pretty accurate.

 

How is arm strength overrated for the RF position? The RFer has a much longer throw to 3rd base, and a baseball golden rule is to have a strong arm in RF for this reason. Players know who they can and can't run on, and Matt Murton is someone they can run on.

 

Murton's arm strength is a joke, but he is quick from glove to release. That's something Jones is not. Jones has a very exaggerated throwing motion and throws in a couple hops off his back foot just for giggles. That pretty much nullifies the advantages of his stronger arm. I won't even go into accuracy.

 

I'd rather have Murton throwing from RF than Jones, but that's not saying much. Baserunners don't fear either of them.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not that it should be even be discussed, but Cabrera still has 2 years of arbitration ahead of him, I don't know where the talk of him being a FA came from.

 

Back to something more realistic, Matt Murton's arm isn't bad. It's not a great arm, but people talk like he's Jacque Jones '06 out there. Amazing how one bad throw can skew people's opinions. His arm is more than adequate to play RF.(Though I do think arm strength is really overrated when judging a RF.)

 

Jacque Jones has a fairly strong arm, his throws are just all over the place. Matt Murton does not have a very strong arm (or at least he hasn't shown it yet), but seems to make the right throws to cut off men and seems pretty accurate.

 

How is arm strength overrated for the RF position? The RFer has a much longer throw to 3rd base, and a baseball golden rule is to have a strong arm in RF for this reason. Players know who they can and can't run on, and Matt Murton is someone they can run on.

 

Murton's arm strength is a joke, but he is quick from glove to release. That's something Jones is not. Jones has a very exaggerated throwing motion and throws in a couple hops off his back foot just for giggles. That pretty much nullifies the advantages of his stronger arm. I won't even go into accuracy.

 

I'd rather have Murton throwing from RF than Jones, but that's not saying much. Baserunners don't fear either of them.

 

Not that arm strength should be real high on the list of factors when setting the lineup...

[SouthSideRyan]

Murton's arm strength is not a joke. That 15 inning game he threw a strike to home from deep RF. He doesn't have a traditional RF's arm, but he doesn't have a noodle like people are implying.

 

The reason RF arm strength is overrated, is how many bases is a poor armed RF gonna make compared to a good armed RF? I'd rather have the stronger arm in LF than RF as I think there are just as many chances for a LF to throw a guy out stretching a double or trying to score as there are for a RF to 2nd, 3rd, and home based on the fact that more balls go to LF than RF. The fact that it's a golden rule of baseball means nothing. There's a lot of asinine golden rules of baseball. Dusty is a golden rule of baseball type.

[biittner77]

Maybe an average arm in RF is an advantage. Has anyone seen Murton air mail the cutoff man because he thinks he has a cannon for an arm?

 

Runners going from 1st to 3rd has more to do with the speed of the runner than it does the arm of the RF.

[CubColtPacer]

Maybe an average arm in RF is an advantage. Has anyone seen Murton air mail the cutoff man because he thinks he has a cannon for an arm?

 

Runners going from 1st to 3rd has more to do with the speed of the runner than it does the arm of the RF.

 

Yes, I did actually-in fact, it was just last Saturday in Philadelphia.

 

Murton's arm is not that big of a deal in RF though-right now he's hurting us with his routes out there and his range. His routes should improve with more practice, and his defensive problems at the moment should not cut into his playing time, especially when the other option is at best average himself in Cliff Floyd.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe an average arm in RF is an advantage. Has anyone seen Murton air mail the cutoff man because he thinks he has a cannon for an arm?

 

Runners going from 1st to 3rd has more to do with the speed of the runner than it does the arm of the RF.

 

Yes, I did actually-in fact, it was just last Saturday in Philadelphia.

 

When, I was there, but don't recall. Could have been in the beer line.

[CubColtPacer]

Maybe an average arm in RF is an advantage. Has anyone seen Murton air mail the cutoff man because he thinks he has a cannon for an arm?

 

Runners going from 1st to 3rd has more to do with the speed of the runner than it does the arm of the RF.

 

Yes, I did actually-in fact, it was just last Saturday in Philadelphia.

 

When, I was there, but don't recall. Could have been in the beer line.

 

It was during the 6 run 7th. It was the last batter Ohman faced in Utley-he hit a double to the right field corner, and Rowand had stopped at 3rd but Murton's throw sailed over the cutoff man into no-man's land in the middle of the infield and Rowand scored. Murton was charged with an error on the play.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe an average arm in RF is an advantage. Has anyone seen Murton air mail the cutoff man because he thinks he has a cannon for an arm?

 

Runners going from 1st to 3rd has more to do with the speed of the runner than it does the arm of the RF.

 

Yes, I did actually-in fact, it was just last Saturday in Philadelphia.

 

When, I was there, but don't recall. Could have been in the beer line.

 

It was during the 6 run 7th. It was the last batter Ohman faced in Utley-he hit a double to the right field corner, and Rowand had stopped at 3rd but Murton's throw sailed over the cutoff man into no-man's land in the middle of the infield and Rowand scored. Murton was charged with an error on the play.

 

I put my head down and stayed seated during that play, so I couldn't see anything that happened after the ball was hit.