Does Murton have a chip on his shoulder?

[KingCubsFan]

 

if you look at the one ab where floyd homered and the one where murton struck out, floyd is obviously better.

Good to see we both agree that determining who is a better player based on a few at bats is stupid

By the way:

Murton: 70 AB

Floyd: 73 AB

 

what? wait. the people who are arguing against murton are always citing his lack of production this season. the people for murton are saying that murton's been more productive than the alternatives this year.

 

that's how i take it.

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics. Floyd could play tomorrow, hit a homerun and a double, and we'd be having this argument again. Fact is, they've both been relatively equal this season, and I don't think Piniella's choice for Floyd over Murton in certain games has cost us much, if anything. It's not the same as playing Izturis over Theriot

 

with all things being equal, you should always play the younger guy.

I agree with this. The problem is, you'll rarely find a manager that will sit a veteran over a younger player when they're both performing similarly. I don't think it's just Piniella

[SouthSideRyan]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics.

 

I don't know what to say.

??? Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom

 

Every single plate appearance "skews" statistics by your definition. Why should Murton's last 5 or 6 ABs not be considered but a 5 or 6 AB stretch earlier in the year where he did nothing is. It's not misleading at all to say Murton has been more productive this season when his season long stats (all included, it's not like his most recent at bats are weighted more heavily) are better.

[brinoch]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics.

 

I don't know what to say.

??? Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom

 

Every single plate appearance "skews" statistics by your definition. Why should Murton's last 5 or 6 ABs not be considered but a 5 or 6 AB stretch earlier in the year where he did nothing is. It's not misleading at all to say Murton has been more productive this season when his season long stats (all included, it's not like his most recent at bats are weighted more heavily) are better.

 

Additionally, if you factor in the fact that since Soriano's switch to LF, Murton's barely played, and yet he's STILL HITTING BETTER THAN FLOYD OR JONES.

 

Kinda hard to justify going with Floyd, in particular, except that he's a veteran playing for a manager who likes veterans.

[KingCubsFan]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics.

 

I don't know what to say.

??? Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom

 

Every single plate appearance "skews" statistics by your definition. Why should Murton's last 5 or 6 ABs not be considered but a 5 or 6 AB stretch earlier in the year where he did nothing is. It's not misleading at all to say Murton has been more productive this season when his season long stats (all included, it's not like his most recent at bats are weighted more heavily) are better.

I was responding to someone who said people had been pushing for Murton because he had been more productive than the alternatives this year. I was showing that, outside of the last 5 or 6 at bats, this wasn't true. If Floyd does well tomorrow, he'll pass Murton. So this argument really shouldn't stem over Murton outperforming Floyd or Jones this year. It should be based more on the fact that Murton is a young player, likely to improve, more important to the future, etc. Piniella has said he'll play whoever his producing. Murton and Floyd are about equal, and they've got basically an equal amount of at bats

[CubColtPacer]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics.

 

I don't know what to say.

??? Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom

 

Every single plate appearance "skews" statistics by your definition. Why should Murton's last 5 or 6 ABs not be considered but a 5 or 6 AB stretch earlier in the year where he did nothing is. It's not misleading at all to say Murton has been more productive this season when his season long stats (all included, it's not like his most recent at bats are weighted more heavily) are better.

 

Additionally, if you factor in the fact that since Soriano's switch to LF, Murton's barely played, and yet he's STILL HITTING BETTER THAN FLOYD OR JONES.

 

Kinda hard to justify going with Floyd, in particular, except that he's a veteran playing for a manager who likes veterans.

 

Well, if you would factor that in, you should at least mention that Floyd has barely played at all since Soriano moved to LF as well-considering this is how many at-bats each have gotten since Soriano's first game in LF:

 

Murton-32

Floyd-26

 

So Murton has gotten more at-bats since Soriano switched to LF, which kind of eliminates your point that he's hardly played since that time compared to Floyd.

 

BTW, even without that point-I think Murton is really starting to hit the ball well, and I hope he is in there for at least a majority if not a good majority of at bats in the near future, because he is playing better than Floyd.

[brinoch]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics.

 

I don't know what to say.

??? Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom

 

Every single plate appearance "skews" statistics by your definition. Why should Murton's last 5 or 6 ABs not be considered but a 5 or 6 AB stretch earlier in the year where he did nothing is. It's not misleading at all to say Murton has been more productive this season when his season long stats (all included, it's not like his most recent at bats are weighted more heavily) are better.

 

Additionally, if you factor in the fact that since Soriano's switch to LF, Murton's barely played, and yet he's STILL HITTING BETTER THAN FLOYD OR JONES.

 

Kinda hard to justify going with Floyd, in particular, except that he's a veteran playing for a manager who likes veterans.

 

Well, if you would factor that in, you should at least mention that Floyd has barely played at all since Soriano moved to LF as well-considering this is how many at-bats each have gotten since Soriano's first game in LF:

 

Murton-32

Floyd-26

 

So Murton has gotten more at-bats since Soriano switched to LF, which kind of eliminates your point that he's hardly played since that time compared to Floyd.

 

BTW, even without that point-I think Murton is really starting to hit the ball well, and I hope he is in there for at least a majority if not a good majority of at bats in the near future, because he is playing better than Floyd.

 

Except that I did include Jones, as well as Floyd, in my commentary. I made the point that Murton should be playing over Floyd and Jones, though Floyd in particular.

 

Playing Murton is clearly the least of Sweet Lou's priorities. Which means that Lou lied to the fans and the media -- repeatedly. And I don't like being lied to.

[CubColtPacer]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics.

 

I don't know what to say.

??? Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom

 

Every single plate appearance "skews" statistics by your definition. Why should Murton's last 5 or 6 ABs not be considered but a 5 or 6 AB stretch earlier in the year where he did nothing is. It's not misleading at all to say Murton has been more productive this season when his season long stats (all included, it's not like his most recent at bats are weighted more heavily) are better.

 

Additionally, if you factor in the fact that since Soriano's switch to LF, Murton's barely played, and yet he's STILL HITTING BETTER THAN FLOYD OR JONES.

 

Kinda hard to justify going with Floyd, in particular, except that he's a veteran playing for a manager who likes veterans.

 

Well, if you would factor that in, you should at least mention that Floyd has barely played at all since Soriano moved to LF as well-considering this is how many at-bats each have gotten since Soriano's first game in LF:

 

Murton-32

Floyd-26

 

So Murton has gotten more at-bats since Soriano switched to LF, which kind of eliminates your point that he's hardly played since that time compared to Floyd.

 

BTW, even without that point-I think Murton is really starting to hit the ball well, and I hope he is in there for at least a majority if not a good majority of at bats in the near future, because he is playing better than Floyd.

 

Except that I did include Jones, as well as Floyd, in my commentary. I made the point that Murton should be playing over Floyd and Jones, though Floyd in particular.

 

Playing Murton is clearly the least of Sweet Lou's priorities. Which means that Lou lied to the fans and the media -- repeatedly. And I don't like being lied to.

 

Lou can't play Murton over Jones-they play different positions. Jones has started a total of 1 game in RF since Soriano took over LF, and that was weeks ago when Murton was having his back problems. The only other times Jones has played RF is when he was switched over there as part of a defensive double switch to get Pie in the game late. So Jones is really getting very little time in RF to take away from Murton.

It's been pretty much a Floyd/Murton platoon over there (with one DeRosa game thrown in) and Murton has gotten the majority of the at-bats since Soriano came back.

[BigSlick]

We've hashed this type of argument out about a hundred thousand times since this board was created by Tim. The fact is that the Cubs have nothing invested in Floyd and his happiness shouldn't be a factor in anything. He's old and he's clearly getting worse as he ages; there's nothing wrong with that -- it happens.

 

Murton, on the other hand, is only going to get better and better. He's younger and already better than Floyd both offensively and defensively. So why play Floyd? Because, like Baker, Piniella has a ridiculous veteran fetish. You want to discuss improving the offense? Well, look no farther than Murton's career OBP (.368) as an easy fix. (Jones in his last three years has a .323, and Floyd earned a .347. Color me impressed.) Murton gets on base more. His power is on the upswing. And, perhaps more importantly, he's extremely inexpensive.

 

Hendry really screwed up when he went out and got Floyd. He and Jones both have very similar weaknesses -- both have a real hard time with lefties -- yet Hendry went out and got a second (older) version of the same player. What the Cubs needed was a either a platoon partner for Jones, or two impact OF's (one needed to be a CF) that would pair Murton and Jones in a platoon. Hendry didn't do that. Instead he signed Floyd. Yet another horrible decision by a GM that doesn't think about the whole picture, or understand why teams win. Teams win by scoring more than the other guy, and to score runs, you need basecloggers ... er... baserunners.

 

Murton should be playing every day, and he should have a chip on his shoulder thanks to the shoddy treatment he's received from Sweet Lou and the Cubs -- treatment which is, alas, quite typical for an organization known for its futility and failure.

 

I think it has less to do with Floyd's "veteran" status than it does with the fact that he's left handed, and old-timey baseball managers follow a very strict unwritten rule that you can't have too few left handers in the lineup, no matter how bad they are.

[cubfan1955]

im trying to understand the logic used in this thread, but i cant. comparing neifi to murton is dumb

Why, because it points out one of your corner outfielders is as about as prductive as Neifi Perez with about 1/3 of the ABs.

 

It certainly ruffles the feathers around here to point out the flaws of the boards favorite son.

 

Quick, guess who has the best OPS this year out of Murton, Floyd, and Jones.

 

Hint: The answer is not Floyd or Jones

He's had a couple of good games. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

 

Ruh roh, you just backed off!

 

The easiest way to prove that you have no case is to back off the moment stats that make a lot of sense directly ruin your point.

Nice try but you are wrong. I gave him credit for a good couple of games. So shoot me. It still doesn't make up for his poor play up until Saturday. Yeah he was good the last couple of days and all of his supporters are coming out of the woodwork. I'll be sure to come back and let you know when he has his next 0 for 4 and playing the outfield like a drunken sailor.

[SouthSideRyan]

im trying to understand the logic used in this thread, but i cant. comparing neifi to murton is dumb

Why, because it points out one of your corner outfielders is as about as prductive as Neifi Perez with about 1/3 of the ABs.

 

It certainly ruffles the feathers around here to point out the flaws of the boards favorite son.

 

Quick, guess who has the best OPS this year out of Murton, Floyd, and Jones.

 

Hint: The answer is not Floyd or Jones

He's had a couple of good games. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

 

Ruh roh, you just backed off!

 

The easiest way to prove that you have no case is to back off the moment stats that make a lot of sense directly ruin your point.

Nice try but you are wrong. I gave him credit for a good couple of games. So shoot me. It still doesn't make up for his poor play up until Saturday. Yeah he was good the last couple of days and all of his supporters are coming out of the woodwork. I'll be sure to come back and let you know when he has his next 0 for 4 and playing the outfield like a drunken sailor.

 

How bout when Cliff Floyd does?

[cubfan1955]

im trying to understand the logic used in this thread, but i cant. comparing neifi to murton is dumb

Why, because it points out one of your corner outfielders is as about as prductive as Neifi Perez with about 1/3 of the ABs.

 

It certainly ruffles the feathers around here to point out the flaws of the boards favorite son.

 

Quick, guess who has the best OPS this year out of Murton, Floyd, and Jones.

 

Hint: The answer is not Floyd or Jones

He's had a couple of good games. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

 

Ruh roh, you just backed off!

 

The easiest way to prove that you have no case is to back off the moment stats that make a lot of sense directly ruin your point.

Nice try but you are wrong. I gave him credit for a good couple of games. So shoot me. It still doesn't make up for his poor play up until Saturday. Yeah he was good the last couple of days and all of his supporters are coming out of the woodwork. I'll be sure to come back and let you know when he has his next 0 for 4 and playing the outfield like a drunken sailor.

 

How bout when Cliff Floyd does?

No problem. Psssst....I never said Floyd was better than Murton.

[RegulusBlue]

im trying to understand the logic used in this thread, but i cant. comparing neifi to murton is dumb

Why, because it points out one of your corner outfielders is as about as prductive as Neifi Perez with about 1/3 of the ABs.

 

It certainly ruffles the feathers around here to point out the flaws of the boards favorite son.

 

Quick, guess who has the best OPS this year out of Murton, Floyd, and Jones.

 

Hint: The answer is not Floyd or Jones

He's had a couple of good games. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

 

Ruh roh, you just backed off!

 

The easiest way to prove that you have no case is to back off the moment stats that make a lot of sense directly ruin your point.

Nice try but you are wrong. I gave him credit for a good couple of games. So shoot me. It still doesn't make up for his poor play up until Saturday. Yeah he was good the last couple of days and all of his supporters are coming out of the woodwork. I'll be sure to come back and let you know when he has his next 0 for 4 and playing the outfield like a drunken sailor.

 

Yes it does. Players have bad games all the time, and then they have good games, and that's how it goes. One bad game is as irrelevant as one good game. Outside of the one bad game, I can really only remember a young player not getting to bat more than once a game, and then only under extreme need scenarios. The strength in the Murton camp is that his career numbers are very good at this point, and the sample size is no longer small.

 

I'm sure you will point out his next bad game as well, because your agenda is to ruin the cubs, or just to see them ruined. Playing the bronze statue of Floyd and Jacque Jones will cost us games, and that ruins the cubs. I'm not surprised you can't see that, from your ridiculous comments.

 

Your flimsy arguments can't hold up to the fact that even if Murton isn't better than Jones, DeRosa, and Floyd (he certainly is), he should still get the starts. He's going to get better, the others are not. You should go debate something that you have even the slightest knowledge about, which is quite possibly anywhere but here.

 

Note: For those keeping score at home, he's backed out of two opposing viewpoints now.

 

Thanks for playing.

[Sarcastic]

Yes it does. Players have bad games all the time, and then they have good games, and that's how it goes. One bad game is as irrelevant as one good game. Outside of the one bad game, I can really only remember a young player not getting to bat more than once a game, and then only under extreme need scenarios. The strength in the Murton camp is that his career numbers are very good at this point, and the sample size is no longer small.

 

I'm sure you will point out his next bad game as well, because your agenda is to ruin the cubs, or just to see them ruined. Playing the bronze statue of Floyd and Jacque Jones will cost us games, and that ruins the cubs. I'm not surprised you can't see that, from your ridiculous comments.

 

Your flimsy arguments can't hold up to the fact that even if Murton isn't better than Jones, DeRosa, and Floyd (he certainly is), he should still get the starts. He's going to get better, the others are not. You should go debate something that you have even the slightest knowledge about, which is quite possibly anywhere but here.

 

Note: For those keeping score at home, he's backed out of two opposing viewpoints now.

 

Thanks for playing.

 

I agree that Murton should be getting the majority of the ABs over Floyd. Considering their ages and past histories, I don't think there is a question about that at this point. However, while I realize I'm not a mod, I think you should tone done your posts. Talking about people having an agenda to "ruin the cubs" or thanking them for playing has nothing to do with baseball.

[waffle]

I think Hendry messed up frankly, by overloading the OF with players who legitimately could/should play every day (maybe not for us, but somewhere). Throw in Derosa and Theriot and now Pagan.... geeez. that is a crowded bit of pasture out there.

 

Murton/Soriano/ANOTHER PLAYER THAT GETS 50% of the AB's

 

Left over

Pagan

Pie (unless he is the 3rd outfielder)

 

Having both Jones and Floyd (heck, either one of them) makes little sense to me. Surely that money could have been better spent? More importantly, the roster spot?

[TruffleShuffle]

He's going to get better, the others are not.

 

He's likely to get better, the others are not likely. Some players don't follow the perfect career curve, believe it or not.

 

 

You should go debate something that you have even the slightest knowledge about, which is quite possibly anywhere but here.

 

Note: For those keeping score at home, he's backed out of two opposing viewpoints now.

 

Thanks for playing.

 

way to take the high road.

[UK1679666180]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics. Floyd could play tomorrow, hit a homerun and a double, and we'd be having this argument again. Fact is, they've both been relatively equal this season, and I don't think Piniella's choice for Floyd over Murton in certain games has cost us much, if anything. It's not the same as playing Izturis over Theriot

 

Given that hitting is often a series of hot and cold stretches for most hitters, wouldn't it be wise to keep Murton out there for the time being while he's the hottest hand of the two?

[jmajew]

The platoon of Pagan and Jones in CF is ideal, in that it is the best option we have, right now. The obvious solution is to trade Floyd, so Murton can start, and use Ward and DeRosa in the OF when neccessary.

[soapy]

when Floyd was "hot" early in the season, that was used as justification to keep running him out there every day. i'm curious to see if Lou will take the same approach with Murton.

[cubfan1955]

im trying to understand the logic used in this thread, but i cant. comparing neifi to murton is dumb

Why, because it points out one of your corner outfielders is as about as prductive as Neifi Perez with about 1/3 of the ABs.

 

It certainly ruffles the feathers around here to point out the flaws of the boards favorite son.

 

Quick, guess who has the best OPS this year out of Murton, Floyd, and Jones.

 

Hint: The answer is not Floyd or Jones

He's had a couple of good games. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

 

Ruh roh, you just backed off!

 

The easiest way to prove that you have no case is to back off the moment stats that make a lot of sense directly ruin your point.

Nice try but you are wrong. I gave him credit for a good couple of games. So shoot me. It still doesn't make up for his poor play up until Saturday. Yeah he was good the last couple of days and all of his supporters are coming out of the woodwork. I'll be sure to come back and let you know when he has his next 0 for 4 and playing the outfield like a drunken sailor.

 

Yes it does. Players have bad games all the time, and then they have good games, and that's how it goes. One bad game is as irrelevant as one good game. Outside of the one bad game, I can really only remember a young player not getting to bat more than once a game, and then only under extreme need scenarios. The strength in the Murton camp is that his career numbers are very good at this point, and the sample size is no longer small.

 

I'm sure you will point out his next bad game as well, because your agenda is to ruin the cubs, or just to see them ruined. Playing the bronze statue of Floyd and Jacque Jones will cost us games, and that ruins the cubs. I'm not surprised you can't see that, from your ridiculous comments.

 

Your flimsy arguments can't hold up to the fact that even if Murton isn't better than Jones, DeRosa, and Floyd (he certainly is), he should still get the starts. He's going to get better, the others are not. You should go debate something that you have even the slightest knowledge about, which is quite possibly anywhere but here.

 

Note: For those keeping score at home, he's backed out of two opposing viewpoints now.

 

Thanks for playing.

You obiously have no interest in discussing anything rationally since Murton is a God to you and can never do any wrong in your eyes. And for what it's worth I'm simply a Cub fan wanting to see the Cubs win. No nefarious scheme to ruin the Cubs. The more you type the more ridiculous you get. Later...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You obiously have no interest in discussing anything rationally since Murton is a God to you and can never do any wrong in your eyes. And for what it's worth I'm simply a Cub fan wanting to see the Cubs win. No nefarious scheme to ruin the Cubs. The more you type the more ridiculous you get. Later...

 

I wouldn't necessarily consider your discussions in this thread to be rational.

[cubfan1955]

You obiously have no interest in discussing anything rationally since Murton is a God to you and can never do any wrong in your eyes. And for what it's worth I'm simply a Cub fan wanting to see the Cubs win. No nefarious scheme to ruin the Cubs. The more you type the more ridiculous you get. Later...

 

I wouldn't necessarily consider your discussions in this thread to be rational.

Give me a break...Murton simply is not as good as most around here thinks he is. Especially the dude that has started a church named Murton. I wish he were. We'd probably be undefeated. But hey, people posting on an internet board are much more knowledgable then people actually running the teams. LOL The lunacy of it all.

[soapy]

You obiously have no interest in discussing anything rationally since Murton is a God to you and can never do any wrong in your eyes. And for what it's worth I'm simply a Cub fan wanting to see the Cubs win. No nefarious scheme to ruin the Cubs. The more you type the more ridiculous you get. Later...

 

I wouldn't necessarily consider your discussions in this thread to be rational.

Give me a break...Murton simply is not as good as most around here thinks he is. Especially the dude that has started a church named Murton. I wish he were. We'd probably be undefeated. But hey, people posting on an internet board are much more knowledgable then people actually running the teams. LOL The lunacy of it all.

 

Murton is far from great, but he's better than Floyd and that's the point.

[cubfan1955]

You obiously have no interest in discussing anything rationally since Murton is a God to you and can never do any wrong in your eyes. And for what it's worth I'm simply a Cub fan wanting to see the Cubs win. No nefarious scheme to ruin the Cubs. The more you type the more ridiculous you get. Later...

 

I wouldn't necessarily consider your discussions in this thread to be rational.

Give me a break...Murton simply is not as good as most around here thinks he is. Especially the dude that has started a church named Murton. I wish he were. We'd probably be undefeated. But hey, people posting on an internet board are much more knowledgable then people actually running the teams. LOL The lunacy of it all.

 

Murton is far from great, but he's better than Floyd and that's the point.

For the 999th time. I never said he wasn't.

[KingCubsFan]

Yes, and prior to his last 5 or 6 at bats, he wasn't as productive as Jones or Floyd. So it's a bit misleading to say he's been more productive this season, when, in reality, his last few at bats have skewed his season statistics. Floyd could play tomorrow, hit a homerun and a double, and we'd be having this argument again. Fact is, they've both been relatively equal this season, and I don't think Piniella's choice for Floyd over Murton in certain games has cost us much, if anything. It's not the same as playing Izturis over Theriot

 

Given that hitting is often a series of hot and cold stretches for most hitters, wouldn't it be wise to keep Murton out there for the time being while he's the hottest hand of the two?

Absolutely, and I've never said otherwise. He's one our hottest hitters right now, and Piniella should follow through on his promise to play the hitters that are performing

[SouthSideRyan]

The platoon of Pagan and Jones in CF is ideal, in that it is the best option we have, right now. The obvious solution is to trade Floyd, so Murton can start, and use Ward and DeRosa in the OF when neccessary.

 

Why does Floyd need to be traded? I keep reading about how it's a huge problem and we need to deal 1 or 2 of our OFs. The problem is Piniella playing the right players, not the existence of the players themselves. God forbid we have a bat off the bench who can actually hit.