Myers named new Phillies Closer

[CubColtPacer]

The best move though is to simply trade for a bullpen arm-as much as there is a lack of starting pitching available, there always is a relief pitcher or two that could be had, especially if they give up one of the starters. That would give you a bigger increase in win totals then moving Myers.

 

Exactamundo.

 

However, the one thing i disagree with you on CubColt (the highlighted quote) is that as i mentioned before, at least 6 teams are looking for closers at the moment and no one wants to trade big pieces this early in the season.

 

So its going to be real pricey to go out and get a true closer. True you could send one of your starters for a set up man like a Farnsworth, but you would have to take a leap of faith that they are going to be able to close with regularity and consistency. Just dont see anyone selling a 30 save closer at the moment.

 

Yeah, I don't think they can get a "proven closer", but I don't think they need to either. They have an option or two down in the bullpen to close-they simply need another good reliever who can throw a lot of innings down there, if it be a closer or a setup man.

[frostwyrm]

this is elementary.

 

Brett Myers is one of the best pitchers on the team.

 

Do you want one of your best pitchers throwing 75 innings or 200 innings?

 

If it's Eric Gagne - 75 innings because he's proven that he's better and stays healthier in that role. If it's Brett Myers, 200 innings because he can be just as good starting as he can be relieving.

 

It's actually worse than you're making it out to be. Besides pitching no more than 75 innings and usually only one inning at a time, closers very frequently pitch with multirun leads and against the lower half of the opponent's batting order. A lot of saves are just plain easy assignments and not a good way to use one of your most talented and expensive pitchers.

[abuck1220]

Never been a fan of Manual, but it appears he knew what he was doing when he moved Myers to the pen.

 

 

move looks faaaaaantastic right now.

[BCVM22]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=philliesmyers&prov=st&type=lgns

 

Myers leaves tonight's game with what is believed to be a strained right shoulder.

[Hosak8]

Having a closer get hurt doesn't make it any less crazy to turn a good starter into a closer.

 

Here are your choices, also note that 6 of these guys are starters. Your GM is looking for a Closer, but so are half a dozen other teams and its April, so no one wants to really deal big pieces yet. Do you pick Myers and hope for Dempster/Eckersley or do you go with the 6 finger wonderkin and run or demote a starter to long relief. If you do which starter sits?

 

57 Alfonseca, Antonio

52 Castro, Fabio

55 Condrey, Clay

23 Eaton, Adam

34 García, Freddy

56 Geary, Geoff

35 Hamels, Cole

44 Hernández, Yoel

21 Lieber, Jon

50 Moyer, Jamie

39 Myers, Brett

54 Rosario, Francisco

 

So it's better to get 75 innings from Myers than 200?

 

Maybe it is. Unless you are the Great Kreskin, I don't see how you can so easily dismiss this possibility.

 

Which would you rather have? (These stats are both for the same guy, btw.)

 

200 IP, 1.213 WHIP, 3.71 ERA, 5.8 K/9

 

OR

 

70 IP, .998 WHIP, 2.85 ERA, 8.8 K/9

 

Give me the second line, because this particular pitcher, while effective in the first role, is dominant in the second. I'm not suggesting that Myers is a dominant closer, but all his numbers are better as a reliever than as a starter. His WHIP, ERA, BAA, and K/9 have all improved- some of them significantly- since his move to the pen.

[abuck1220]

Having a closer get hurt doesn't make it any less crazy to turn a good starter into a closer.

 

Here are your choices, also note that 6 of these guys are starters. Your GM is looking for a Closer, but so are half a dozen other teams and its April, so no one wants to really deal big pieces yet. Do you pick Myers and hope for Dempster/Eckersley or do you go with the 6 finger wonderkin and run or demote a starter to long relief. If you do which starter sits?

 

57 Alfonseca, Antonio

52 Castro, Fabio

55 Condrey, Clay

23 Eaton, Adam

34 García, Freddy

56 Geary, Geoff

35 Hamels, Cole

44 Hernández, Yoel

21 Lieber, Jon

50 Moyer, Jamie

39 Myers, Brett

54 Rosario, Francisco

 

So it's better to get 75 innings from Myers than 200?

 

Maybe it is. Unless you are the Great Kreskin, I don't see how you can so easily dismiss this possibility.

 

Which would you rather have? (These stats are both for the same guy, btw.)

 

200 IP, 1.213 WHIP, 3.71 ERA, 5.8 K/9

 

OR

 

70 IP, .998 WHIP, 2.85 ERA, 8.8 K/9

 

Give me the second line, because this particular pitcher, while effective in the first role, is dominant in the second. I'm not suggesting that Myers is a dominant closer, but all his numbers are better as a reliever than as a starter. His WHIP, ERA, BAA, and K/9 have all improved- some of them significantly- since his move to the pen.

 

which spans all of a month...and may have ended tonight with an arm injury.

 

other than that, you're all over it.

[Guest]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=philliesmyers&prov=st&type=lgns

 

Myers leaves tonight's game with what is believed to be a strained right shoulder.

 

[wild guess]Torn labrum and he's lost for the season, Philly fans will bombard Manuel for his downfall just like they did Dusty for that of Wood, Prior, and to a lesser degree Zambrano.[/wild guess]

[abuck1220]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=philliesmyers&prov=st&type=lgns

 

Myers leaves tonight's game with what is believed to be a strained right shoulder.

 

[wild guess]Torn labrum and he's lost for the season, Philly fans will bombard Manuel for his downfall just like they did Dusty for that of Wood, Prior, and to a lesser degree Zambrano.[/wild guess]

 

and manuel would deserve it just as much as baker did.

[circlecitycub]

That sucks. I just met his father last weekend. He is so proud of his son.

[Hosak8]

Having a closer get hurt doesn't make it any less crazy to turn a good starter into a closer.

 

Here are your choices, also note that 6 of these guys are starters. Your GM is looking for a Closer, but so are half a dozen other teams and its April, so no one wants to really deal big pieces yet. Do you pick Myers and hope for Dempster/Eckersley or do you go with the 6 finger wonderkin and run or demote a starter to long relief. If you do which starter sits?

 

57 Alfonseca, Antonio

52 Castro, Fabio

55 Condrey, Clay

23 Eaton, Adam

34 García, Freddy

56 Geary, Geoff

35 Hamels, Cole

44 Hernández, Yoel

21 Lieber, Jon

50 Moyer, Jamie

39 Myers, Brett

54 Rosario, Francisco

 

So it's better to get 75 innings from Myers than 200?

 

Maybe it is. Unless you are the Great Kreskin, I don't see how you can so easily dismiss this possibility.

 

Which would you rather have? (These stats are both for the same guy, btw.)

 

200 IP, 1.213 WHIP, 3.71 ERA, 5.8 K/9

 

OR

 

70 IP, .998 WHIP, 2.85 ERA, 8.8 K/9

 

Give me the second line, because this particular pitcher, while effective in the first role, is dominant in the second. I'm not suggesting that Myers is a dominant closer, but all his numbers are better as a reliever than as a starter. His WHIP, ERA, BAA, and K/9 have all improved- some of them significantly- since his move to the pen.

 

which spans all of a month...and may have ended tonight with an arm injury.

 

other than that, you're all over it.

 

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

[imb]

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

 

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

His last two seasons have been the stuff of a No. 2 starter, and he's not even near his pitching prime. His numbers are skewed by a rough 75 starts when he was getting his feet wet.

 

I guess when your "point" is completely wrong, it's just easiest to make a fool of yourself.

[sunnydoo]

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

Why not?

 

Everyone after Cesar Izturis is doing the same thing...he at least is coming off TJ surgery.

[imb]

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

Why not?

 

Everyone after Cesar Izturis is doing the same thing...he at least is coming off TJ surgery.

 

Izturis posted bad numbers, one season of not so bad numbers, and then two seasons of more bad numbers.

 

Myers posted bad numbers when he apparently was not ready for the bigs. Then really good numbers as he hit his stride.

 

Even at his best (which was one season, in the middle of four bad ones, mind you) Cesar was never better than average. Can you really not figure this out? These situations are in no way comparable.

[sunnydoo]

Izturis posted bad numbers, one season of not so bad numbers, and then two seasons of more bad numbers.

 

Myers posted bad numbers when he apparently was not ready for the bigs. Then really good numbers as he hit his stride.

 

Even at his best (which was one season, in the middle of four bad ones, mind you) Cesar was never better than average. Can you really not figure this out? These situations are in no way comparable.

 

Ya, and those 2 bad seasons he had...one he was an all star in and he played hurt for over a month and the other was attributed to him coming back from TJ which takes 18 to 24 months to recover from.

 

.274/.336 may not set the world on fire, but its no reason to consistently flame a SS that does well in the field. He is 6th in average of SS with over 100 ABs and 7th in OBP for the National League.

 

As for Myers, i will wait and see what the doc says. he says he has strength in his shoulder, so it wont be a complete tear of anything.

[TruffleShuffle]

Izturis posted bad numbers, one season of not so bad numbers, and then two seasons of more bad numbers.

 

Myers posted bad numbers when he apparently was not ready for the bigs. Then really good numbers as he hit his stride.

 

Even at his best (which was one season, in the middle of four bad ones, mind you) Cesar was never better than average. Can you really not figure this out? These situations are in no way comparable.

 

Ya, and those 2 bad seasons he had...one he was an all star in and he played hurt for over a month and the other was attributed to him coming back from TJ which takes 18 to 24 months to recover from.

 

He was an all star because he had a ridiculously high BABIP (i.e., luck) in the first half of the year, and then was one of the worst players in baseball (545 OPS) in the second half of the year. TJ surgery should affect a pitcher a lot more; he sucked before his injury in 2006, also.

 

.274/.336 may not set the world on fire, but its no reason to consistently flame a SS that does well in the field. He is 6th in average of SS with over 100 ABs and 7th in OBP for the National League.

 

yeah and I would feel okay about those numbers if it were in the area of his career norms... but his career OBP is below .300, and his OBP the past two years is below .300. In fact, he's only had one year with an OBP over .302, and not only can he not get on base, but he also can't hit for power either. For a major leaguer, he's a bad baseball player.

[abuck1220]

 

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

 

sorry...i don't take the time to craft a thoughtful response to a terrible argument.

 

when evaluating his career as a starter, you're including the numbers he put up when he was a 22 year old rookie. when evaluating his career as a reliever, you're using one month. if you don't see the problem with that, i'm not going to take the time to explain to you why it's stupid.

 

also, he now has a whip of 1.40 as a reliever...worse than what he's done as a starter (including his first three mediocre seasons). one night kinda ruined your argument.

[Hosak8]

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

 

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

His last two seasons have been the stuff of a No. 2 starter, and he's not even near his pitching prime. His numbers are skewed by a rough 75 starts when he was getting his feet wet.

 

I guess when your "point" is completely wrong, it's just easiest to make a fool of yourself.

 

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

[cheapseats]

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

 

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

His last two seasons have been the stuff of a No. 2 starter, and he's not even near his pitching prime. His numbers are skewed by a rough 75 starts when he was getting his feet wet.

 

I guess when your "point" is completely wrong, it's just easiest to make a fool of yourself.

 

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

 

Carlos Zambrano after 3 starts:

 

5.1 IP per start, with a 7.88 ERA, and a WHIP of 1.69. Yep, those look like sig-worthy numbers to me.

[Amazing_Grace]

Izturis posted bad numbers, one season of not so bad numbers, and then two seasons of more bad numbers.

 

Myers posted bad numbers when he apparently was not ready for the bigs. Then really good numbers as he hit his stride.

 

Even at his best (which was one season, in the middle of four bad ones, mind you) Cesar was never better than average. Can you really not figure this out? These situations are in no way comparable.

 

Ya, and those 2 bad seasons he had...one he was an all star in and he played hurt for over a month and the other was attributed to him coming back from TJ which takes 18 to 24 months to recover from.

 

.274/.336 may not set the world on fire, but its no reason to consistently flame a SS that does well in the field. He is 6th in average of SS with over 100 ABs and 7th in OBP for the National League.

 

As for Myers, i will wait and see what the doc says. he says he has strength in his shoulder, so it wont be a complete tear of anything.

 

I'll concede Izturis has been OK as a SS offensively. Nevertheless, Theriot is better, and he's enough better offensively that he should start most of the time despite being just average with the glove.

[fromthestretch]

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

 

He had been a good starting pitcher the past two seasons and is still young. His first start of the year was solid. Essentially, they moved him to the bullpen after two bad outings.

 

So just to be clear, you're saying that because of those two outings, moving him to the bullpen was the smart thing to do...that those two starts show more than the past two years?

[imb]

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

 

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

His last two seasons have been the stuff of a No. 2 starter, and he's not even near his pitching prime. His numbers are skewed by a rough 75 starts when he was getting his feet wet.

 

I guess when your "point" is completely wrong, it's just easiest to make a fool of yourself.

 

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

 

In three starts. If you can't grasp how stupid it is to move a 26 year old, coming off two good-to-great seasons, to the bullpen because of two bad starts (his first start was good), then it's not even worth having this discussion with you.

[Hosak8]

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

 

He had been a good starting pitcher the past two seasons and is still young. His first start of the year was solid. Essentially, they moved him to the bullpen after two bad outings.

 

So just to be clear, you're saying that because of those two outings, moving him to the bullpen was the smart thing to do...that those two starts show more than the past two years?

 

No, that isn't my point at all. Here is my point...

 

Manuel made a move and put Myers into a role at which he was excelling. His numbers as a reliever have all been better than any of his numbers at any point during his career as a starter.

 

There. That's it. That's my point. Myers was pitching better as a reliever than he ever has as a starter. And, I would take 75 great innings over 200 decent innings any day.

[UMFan83]

So who is closing for the Phillies now, Cole Hammels?

[Hosak8]

Ahh, yes, condescension. I guess when you have no point, it's just easiest to be a prick?

 

Let's see here... since some of you guys are so dazzled by Myers as a starter, I thought I'd look at some of his numbers...

 

a 1.36 WHIP, a .262 BAA, 4.42 ERA, and a k/9 of 7.3. Sorry, but what is so spectacular about that? Besides his k rate, he seems to have average #4 or 5 starter numbers to me.

 

But, in his admittedly limited time as a reliever, every one of those numbers has gotten better...

 

1.24 WHIP, .218 BAA, 1.29 ERA, and a k/9 of 13.29.

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying. :roll:

 

Are you really going by the career averages of a 26 year old starting pitcher who came into the league at the age of 22?

 

His last two seasons have been the stuff of a No. 2 starter, and he's not even near his pitching prime. His numbers are skewed by a rough 75 starts when he was getting his feet wet.

 

I guess when your "point" is completely wrong, it's just easiest to make a fool of yourself.

 

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

 

In three starts. If you can't grasp how stupid it is to move a 26 year old, coming off two good-to-great seasons, to the bullpen because of two bad starts (his first start was good), then it's not even worth having this discussion with you.

 

His numbers as a reliever are still better than his "good to great" seasons as a starter.

 

Look, we disagree. No big deal. I just find the "Message Board Mentality" funny. You know.. the one where posters on a message board all think that they are so much smarter than actual executives in MLB. Yeah, we're all so smart. That's why none of us have a job in professional baseball.

[fromthestretch]

The difference is, I have a point. You have NOTHING but pure speculation. Pitchers in their prime have regressed before, you know. Myers wasn't moved to the pen because the Phillies had to have him there. He was moved because he flat out stunk in the rotation this season.

 

5 IP per start, with a 9+ ERA, and a WHIP of 1.6. Yep, those look like #2 starter numbers to me. Good point.

 

He had been a good starting pitcher the past two seasons and is still young. His first start of the year was solid. Essentially, they moved him to the bullpen after two bad outings.

 

So just to be clear, you're saying that because of those two outings, moving him to the bullpen was the smart thing to do...that those two starts show more than the past two years?

 

No, that isn't my point at all. Here is my point...

 

Manuel made a move and put Myers into a role at which he was excelling. His numbers as a reliever have all been better than any of his numbers at any point during his career as a starter.

 

There. That's it. That's my point. Myers was pitching better as a reliever than he ever has as a starter. And, I would take 75 great innings over 200 decent innings any day.

 

That's not entirely accurate. He's thrown 20.2 innings as a reliever, and yes, he did very well. However, I can point to stretches of 4-5 consecutive starts in his career where he was just as good, if not better. Oddly enough, his WHIP as a reliever was worse than his WHIP as a starter in either of the past two years.

 

Let's assume he's going to keep up his pace as a reliever and give you 75 very good innings. Shouldn't you also take into consideration who's going to throw the 200 innings as a starter in his place in the rotation? Let's say his replacement posts a 5.00 ERA/1.45 WHIP. Is Myers still more valuable to your team out of the bullpen when he could reasonably be expected to put up a 3.70ish ERA/1.20ish WHIP as a starter?