4/17 Cubs (Miller) vs. Fathers (Maddux), 1:20 pm CT, WGN

[Derwood]

as many here have argued, lineup has very little bearing on how a team does. I don't hink it matters where Pie hits

 

I agree completely. So, he'll have more pressure on him for his first AB, but after that it's just like any of the other 40 at bats. Plus, won't he see better pitches with T-Riot and the heart of the order protecting him, versus Blanco?

So it didn't matter when Neifi and Corey were hitting 1-2 in front of Lee as opposed to 7-8?

 

well, it didn't have any bearing on how neifi an corey did

[FergieJ31]

as many here have argued, lineup has very little bearing on how a team does. I don't hink it matters where Pie hits

 

I agree completely. So, he'll have more pressure on him for his first AB, but after that it's just like any of the other 40 at bats. Plus, won't he see better pitches with T-Riot and the heart of the order protecting him, versus Blanco?

So it didn't matter when Neifi and Corey were hitting 1-2 in front of Lee as opposed to 7-8?

 

It's generally accepted, I think, that lineup configuration does not matter significantly in wins and losses. If you're deciding whether to hit Ruth ahead of Gehrig or vice versa, I totally agree. If you're deciding whether Neifi hits second (with his .300 OBP) or Murton and his .360 OBP, I think over the course of a season, it can cost you enough runs to make difference. But that would be nearly impossible to prove.

 

There have been studies along these lines - I think Tangotiger proved that creating optimal batting orders can be expected to add 1-2 wins by the end of a season. Batting order is one of the most straightforward, concrete decisions a manager can make, so I disagree with the argument that it's trivial and doesn't rate discussion.

[Derwood]

I don't like Pie leading off because he *isn't* a leadoff hitter and isn't the best option at the top of this lineup.

 

the ideal situation would be for him to hit in the same place in the order as he was in Iowa, but I don't think bumping Lee from the #3 spot is gonna happen

[David]

as many here have argued, lineup has very little bearing on how a team does. I don't hink it matters where Pie hits

 

I agree completely. So, he'll have more pressure on him for his first AB, but after that it's just like any of the other 40 at bats. Plus, won't he see better pitches with T-Riot and the heart of the order protecting him, versus Blanco?

So it didn't matter when Neifi and Corey were hitting 1-2 in front of Lee as opposed to 7-8?

 

It's generally accepted, I think, that lineup configuration does not matter significantly in wins and losses. If you're deciding whether to hit Ruth ahead of Gehrig or vice versa, I totally agree. If you're deciding whether Neifi hits second (with his .300 OBP) or Murton and his .360 OBP, I think over the course of a season, it can cost you enough runs to make difference. But that would be nearly impossible to prove.

 

There have been studies along these lines - I think Tangotiger proved that creating optimal batting orders can be expected to add 1-2 wins by the end of a season. Batting order is one of the most straightforward, concrete decisions a manager can make, so I disagree with the argument that it's trivial and doesn't rate discussion.

 

Optimal batting orders may add 1-2 wins a season, but I have my doubts as to what an optimal batting order actually is. I don't think it's what conventional baseball wisdom would define as an optimal lineup.

[sherwood921]

Bah, I wish I could watch this one. Facing Maddux, Pie's debut, important start for Miller...

[FergieJ31]

There have been studies along these lines - I think Tangotiger proved that creating optimal batting orders can be expected to add 1-2 wins by the end of a season. Batting order is one of the most straightforward, concrete decisions a manager can make, so I disagree with the argument that it's trivial and doesn't rate discussion.

 

Optimal batting orders may add 1-2 wins a season, but I have my doubts as to what an optimal batting order actually is. I don't think it's what conventional baseball wisdom would define as an optimal lineup.

 

Very good point - I agree.

 

I think managers would raise a lot of eyebrows and draw a ton of criticism if they routinely started batting pitchers 8th (even those named Marquis or Zambrano), as some of these studies argue is "optimal".

[Derwood]

i think its a matter of

 

- find the best spot for a rookie callup to perform

 

vs

 

- disrupting the every day lineup

 

in other words, Pie is here for a few days to fill in for Soriano, who led off. his physical skills aren't terrible for a few days at the #1 spot, especially if it lets the rest of the order bat where they are accustomed to bat. I don't know if I like the idea of resetting the order to accommodate a rookie

[soapy]

Leading off Pie huh? Not smart IMO...let him settle in further down in the order.

 

I like it. You are expected to come up and perform. We are not going to treat you with kid gloves. It probably depends on the player, but with everything I have read about Pie I like taking this route.

but he's not a leadoff hitter. period.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Pie isn't a leadoff hitter and people don't have to worry about that long term. Soriano is going to be leading off for the next 8 years.

 

Pie will get more ABs this way. Putting him down in the lineup really makes us unbalanced with Cedeno, Blanco and Miller at the tail end.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I don't like Pie leading off because he *isn't* a leadoff hitter and isn't the best option at the top of this lineup.

 

the ideal situation would be for him to hit in the same place in the order as he was in Iowa, but I don't think bumping Lee from the #3 spot is gonna happen

 

I think it'd be better to put him where the Cubs expect him to play when he's in the bigs.

[jersey cubs fan]

i think its a matter of

 

- find the best spot for a rookie callup to perform

 

vs

 

- disrupting the every day lineup

 

in other words, Pie is here for a few days to fill in for Soriano, who led off. his physical skills aren't terrible for a few days at the #1 spot, especially if it lets the rest of the order bat where they are accustomed to bat. I don't know if I like the idea of resetting the order to accommodate a rookie

 

Most of the rest of the guys have already shifted several spots this season. They've had 4 #2 hitters, 2 each at #3 and #4, 4 at #5 and #6. I don't see why there would be any concern in messing with the rest of the order. Nobody is accustomed to any one spot.

[jersey cubs fan]

Pie isn't a leadoff hitter and people don't have to worry about that long term. Soriano is going to be leading off for the next 8 years.

 

Pie will get more ABs this way. Putting him down in the lineup really makes us unbalanced with Cedeno, Blanco and Miller at the tail end.

 

Soriano will not be leading off for the next 8 years. They might get lucky enough to be able to hide him there for 2-3 years, but eventually somebody with half a brain will notice his OBP ain't cutting it, and as he ages, it's just likely to get worse. He'll be a 5th hitter in 4 years minimum.

 

Hopefully Eric Patterson is the leadoff hitter.

[Soul]

Pie isn't a leadoff hitter and people don't have to worry about that long term. Soriano is going to be leading off for the next 8 years.

 

Pie will get more ABs this way. Putting him down in the lineup really makes us unbalanced with Cedeno, Blanco and Miller at the tail end.

 

Soriano will not be leading off for the next 8 years. They might get lucky enough to be able to hide him there for 2-3 years, but eventually somebody with half a brain will notice his OBP ain't cutting it, and as he ages, it's just likely to get worse. He'll be a 5th hitter in 4 years minimum.

 

Hopefully Eric Patterson is the leadoff hitter.

 

We've got other hitters would do better in the leadoff role right now. I wish Lou would ask Fonz to move out of that role. But I understand he hasn't. He's asked him if he still wants to play CF though.

[seanimal]

Dear Fellow NSBB'ers,

 

I don't think the lineup matters today.

 

Wade Miller is pitching.

 

Know what I mean?

[Brian]

Dear Fellow NSBB'ers,

 

I don't think the lineup matters today.

 

Wade Miller is pitching.

 

Know what I mean?

 

And I have a feeling Maddux is the perfect kind of pitcher to dominate the Cubs.

[Chris]

I don't like Pie leading off because he *isn't* a leadoff hitter and isn't the best option at the top of this lineup.

 

Totally agree.

 

NIW EW ,WTB

[Derwood]

I don't like Pie leading off because he *isn't* a leadoff hitter and isn't the best option at the top of this lineup.

 

Totally agree.

 

NIW EW ,WTB

 

that is getting DLO OS

[USSoccer]

So all things considered, this is a pretty important start for the Cubs. If Miller is bad again, it's going to be time for Piniella to seriously consider binning the Wade Miller Experiment.

 

BTW, who got sent down/DL'd for Pie?

[Chris]

that is getting DLO OS

 

DAS

[E.J.]

Wainwright is getting lit up by the Pirates. It's 5-0 Pirates in the 3rd inning.

[98navigator]

So all things considered, this is a pretty important start for the Cubs. If Miller is bad again, it's going to be time for Piniella to seriously consider binning the Wade Miller Experiment.

 

BTW, who got sent down/DL'd for Pie?

 

Nothing official yet but Santo just said he heard it may be a pitcher. My guess is Ohman.

[Bruno7481]

Excuse the hijack, but I have to post this.

 

Watching the Cards/Pirates game. Hrabosky was bashing Laroche for his pre pitch ritual, he points the bat toward the pitcher lkind of like Ryan Howard. Hrabosky says, "Howard can do that, he's the MVP, this guy can't even hit .100, it looks bad when he does it."

 

The next pitch Laroch takes Wainwright deep for a 3-run HR.

 

It was great.

[98navigator]

Wainwright is getting lit up by the Pirates. It's 5-0 Pirates in the 3rd inning.

 

YES... I have a Wainwright/Rich Hill bet going

[jersey cubs fan]

BTW, who got sent down/DL'd for Pie?

 

They are waiting for the last minute, which could mean they are waiting on further diagnosis on Soriano, or to try and see if somebody clears waivers, or for a trade

[E.J.]

Excuse the hijack, but I have to post this.

 

Watching the Cards/Pirates game. Hrabosky was bashing Laroche for his pre pitch ritual, he points the bat toward the pitcher lkind of like Ryan Howard. Hrabosky says, "Howard can do that, he's the MVP, this guy can't even hit .100, it looks bad when he does it."

 

The next pitch Laroch takes Wainwright deep for a 3-run HR.

 

It was great.

 

I like how he made the comment that Laroche looked like a dead fish in the batter's box and said something like, "at least look like you want to get out of this slump." Next pitch was a homerun. :lol: