stop spending big $ on setup men, please

[OleMissCub]

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

that pitch was a perfect backwards K strike, right on the inner edge of the plate. He couldn't have placed it any better.

[TruffleShuffle]

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

Wuertz is a good pitcher, and your point would hold water if the Cubs had an unlimited supply of him. But Wuertz is on the Cubs right now. They wouldn't be replacing Howry by Wuertz, they'd be replacing him by Novoa or Marmol, and there is a big difference between those guys and Howry.

[kroth1342]

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

Wuertz is a good pitcher, and your point would hold water if the Cubs had an unlimited supply of him. But Wuertz is on the Cubs right now. They wouldn't be replacing Howry by Wuertz, they'd be replacing him by Novoa or Marmol, and there is a big difference between those guys and Howry.

 

Nice point. Further, I'll stick with the man whose last three seasons:

 

2004 - 2005 - 2006

 

ERA: 2.74 - 2.47 - 3.17

K/9: 7.4 - 5.7 - 8.2

BB/9: 2.3 - 1.9 - 1.3

 

For a large payroll team like the Cubs, I consider the money spent on Howry well spent to add consistency and performance to our bullpen. Obviously every bullpen can't be filled with FA pickups, but rather a mix of the two. Let's give Howry the benefit of the doubt, and if he's still having bad outings in June, we need to revisit the situation.

[Guest]

Where did I say anything bout goin into a season with 7 guys who havent thrown a big league pitch? I said its dumb to spend big money and big years on ML relievers because they are so inconsistant. Giving out 3 year deals for relievers to me is not smart plain and simple. I know every bp isnt going to be built from your farm system but if your farm system is anything decent you should have enough quality arms down there that you can form most of your bp from that.

Which teams, aside from the small market teams that have no other choice, do that?

St. Louis & Anaheim, two teams that perpetually have top 5 bullpens in baseball.

 

Other than Izzy, I can't think of a single FA those guys have gone on the market for and signed to big money contracts. Now, Anaheim extended Shields with pretty big money, but they found him for minimum dollars initially.

[Bull]

I think Howry was money well spent, but he may not be the same after tying the record for appearances in one season.

 

 

Howry set a Cub record for appearances last year... a year after setting an all time Cleveland Indians club record for appearances.

 

Yikes!

[frostwyrm]

It's highly questionable whether any GM should be throwing big money at relief pitching, but not for Jim Hendry. His track record with big relief contracts is terrible. For every somewhat well-spent dollar there's been two or three completely wasted. Hendry has no business giving out these types of deals and the Trib should tell him he's not allowed to do it anymore.

[frostwyrm]

Because the big money guys that the Cubs got pitch lots of innings, have ERA's in the low 3's, and combine for over 40 holds.

 

Wait...

 

Eyre allowed a .799 OPS. That's terrible for $3.8M. Howry was quite good but he's only one third of the way through his contract. That's the problem with signing the relief "flavor of the week". To get the guy you end up having to make a multi-year committment to a class of player that is notoriously inconsistent from one year to the next. Maybe this year the pendulum swings downwards, but we still have to pay him. And how many relievers are really worth $4M? Pitching is 35% of the game, and relief pitching is only 30% of pitching. It's really not a big component of the overall game compared to other stuff. You pay a hefty opportunity cost carrying a bunch of expensive relievers as the Cubs do, in terms of lost resources to upgrade more important areas.

[sunnydoo]

I think Howry was money well spent, but he may not be the same after tying the record for appearances in one season.

 

Howry set a Cub record for appearances last year... a year after setting an all time Cleveland Indians club record for appearances.

 

Both good points there. Generally speaking, you are entering a danger zone around 80 appearances or innings pitched in relief the following season. Doing it consistently will eventually overtax and blow out the stuff. I hope we arent heading that way with Howry.

 

The really big blunder in the inning wasnt the HR, it was the WP. Putting the runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs had a direct cause to that HR.

 

I am hoping the WP/PB problem will be fixed by warmer weather and that this is a small sample size. However, this is the Cubs...anything is possible.

[Mephistopheles]

16.3 IP, 2 ER for the Reds pen...

[WolverineX40]

 

what pitch were you watching

 

it that was in "no way" a strike, then the wild pitch was in no way a ball

 

I TiVo the Cubs highlights on BBTN, and I hate to disagree with you oldstyle, but that pitch would have punch Adam Everett out 9 out of 10 times. Pepole WHO KNOWS the strikezone knows Everett struckout (according to the strikezone) but unfortunately the Cubs drew an umpire who is clueless when it comes to the strikezone.

 

Bad loss today, so I figure the Cubs will rope Sampson tomorrow.

[oldstyle81]

 

what pitch were you watching

 

it that was in "no way" a strike, then the wild pitch was in no way a ball

 

I TiVo the Cubs highlights on BBTN, and I hate to disagree with you oldstyle, but that pitch would have punch Adam Everett out 9 out of 10 times. Pepole WHO KNOWS the strikezone knows Everett struckout (according to the strikezone) but unfortunately the Cubs drew an umpire who is clueless when it comes to the strikezone.

 

Bad loss today, so I figure the Cubs will rope Sampson tomorrow.

 

are you saying it was a ball or a strike? i have been saying it was a strike

[KingCubsFan]

16.3 IP, 2 ER for the Reds pen...

Don't they always start off strong and then fade because their starters can't last?

[abuck1220]

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

Wuertz is a good pitcher, and your point would hold water if the Cubs had an unlimited supply of him. But Wuertz is on the Cubs right now. They wouldn't be replacing Howry by Wuertz, they'd be replacing him by Novoa or Marmol, and there is a big difference between those guys and Howry.

 

my point is that you can always find someone to do league average bullpen work for cheap. there's no need to invest $12 million on a guy to do slightly above league average bullpen work. they may not be as good as wuertz, but someone can get the job done.

 

and you would be replacing howry with wuertz...at least their roles. wuertz would become the primary rh set up guy. you'd then be replacing wuertz (whose role is less important) with guzman.

[rynefan]

I don't know, 2 losses in 7 games is pretty impressive!!!! (now just shoot me)

[CUBZ99]

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

Wuertz is a good pitcher, and your point would hold water if the Cubs had an unlimited supply of him. But Wuertz is on the Cubs right now. They wouldn't be replacing Howry by Wuertz, they'd be replacing him by Novoa or Marmol, and there is a big difference between those guys and Howry.

 

my point is that you can always find someone to do league average bullpen work for cheap. there's no need to invest $12 million on a guy to do slightly above league average bullpen work. they may not be as good as wuertz, but someone can get the job done.

 

and you would be replacing howry with wuertz...at least their roles. wuertz would become the primary rh set up guy. you'd then be replacing wuertz (whose role is less important) with guzman.

 

Why are you making it sound as if Guzman is a decent option? Granted its early, but he has been horrible. I'd rather take a chance on a BP guy that has had good seasons in the past than a young pitcher who has done nothing but get lit up at the big league level. Sure Guzman could improve, but he will have to make some big improvements to be servicable.

[jjgman21]

Where did I say anything bout goin into a season with 7 guys who havent thrown a big league pitch? I said its dumb to spend big money and big years on ML relievers because they are so inconsistant. Giving out 3 year deals for relievers to me is not smart plain and simple. I know every bp isnt going to be built from your farm system but if your farm system is anything decent you should have enough quality arms down there that you can form most of your bp from that.

Which teams, aside from the small market teams that have no other choice, do that?

St. Louis & Anaheim, two teams that perpetually have top 5 bullpens in baseball.

 

Other than Izzy, I can't think of a single FA those guys have gone on the market for and signed to big money contracts. Now, Anaheim extended Shields with pretty big money, but they found him for minimum dollars initially.

 

maybe the past couple years, but that's not how it's always been. the five primary relievers of the 2004 Cardinals cost about 13M (7.75 of it Izzy) and not a single one came up in the system. it consisted of a big money FA, a smaller money FA, two guys that came in trades, and one scrap heap guy. three of those five remained in 2005 and cost over 11M. 2003 their pen was not good, and consisted of scrap heap type guys. before that, there were guys like Veres and Timlin, big money FAs.

 

the Angels I agree with, but it's been the same three or four guys that has made them good for years now. when FRod and Shields equivalents come up in the Cubs system, and scrap heap guys like Weber and Donally have runs of 4-5 solid years, then I will agree that the pen should have been built in house and with low cost solutions.

[jjgman21]

 

my point is that you can always find someone to do league average bullpen work for cheap.

 

I agree that relievers are highly unpredictable, but simply saying this with conviction doesn't make it true. far from it, and alot of times when you try, it turns into complete disaster.

 

you look at the state of the Cubs pen when Eyre and Howry were signed and the cupboards were bare. the three best relievers at that time are still with the team. at the time, you might have said "just bring up Jermaine." Boston thought so too at the beginning of 2006.

 

incidentally, I don't think Howry or Eyre will be any good this year, and Lou would be well served to quickly change the roles of the guys in the pen.

[abuck1220]

 

my point is that you can always find someone to do league average bullpen work for cheap.

 

I agree that relievers are highly unpredictable, but simply saying this with conviction doesn't make it true. far from it, and alot of times when you try, it turns into complete disaster.

 

 

i agree that relievers are unpredictable. so why spend millions upon millions for a bullpen that may be good when you can spend substantially less for a bullpen that may be good?

[soccer10k]

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

Fixed.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

That pitch to Everett probably wasn't a strike, it bent inside. However, it had been called a strike several times previously, and Boyd owed us enough to get us a K on an intentional walk.

[WolverineX40]

 

what pitch were you watching

 

it that was in "no way" a strike, then the wild pitch was in no way a ball

 

I TiVo the Cubs highlights on BBTN, and I hate to disagree with you oldstyle, but that pitch would have punch Adam Everett out 9 out of 10 times. Pepole WHO KNOWS the strikezone knows Everett struckout (according to the strikezone) but unfortunately the Cubs drew an umpire who is clueless when it comes to the strikezone.

 

Bad loss today, so I figure the Cubs will rope Sampson tomorrow.

 

are you saying it was a ball or a strike? i have been saying it was a strike

 

Personally, I'm saying it's a strike.

[TruffleShuffle]

Other than Izzy, I can't think of a single FA those guys have gone on the market for and signed to big money contracts.

 

Ray King, Julian Tavarez, Dave Veres, Mike Timlin, Steve Kline. All signed for $2M or more. That was easy.

[cheapseats]

Where did I say anything bout goin into a season with 7 guys who havent thrown a big league pitch? I said its dumb to spend big money and big years on ML relievers because they are so inconsistant. Giving out 3 year deals for relievers to me is not smart plain and simple. I know every bp isnt going to be built from your farm system but if your farm system is anything decent you should have enough quality arms down there that you can form most of your bp from that.

Which teams, aside from the small market teams that have no other choice, do that?

St. Louis & Anaheim, two teams that perpetually have top 5 bullpens in baseball.

 

Other than Izzy, I can't think of a single FA those guys have gone on the market for and signed to big money contracts. Now, Anaheim extended Shields with pretty big money, but they found him for minimum dollars initially.

 

Minnesota's bullpen last year was about as good as it gets. Nathan was the only guy making more than $1m, IIRC, and most were making around league minimum.

[RynoRules]

 

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

Well said.

 

I must admit I was initially skeptical with respect to Wuertz, but he has won me over. I think Eyre and Howry might be good trade bait in light of overall relief pitching depth, especially if Woody comes back healthy and Ryan continues to look as good as he did in his short appearance yesterday.

[RynoRules]

That pitch to Everett probably wasn't a strike, it bent inside. However, it had been called a strike several times previously, and Boyd owed us enough to get us a K on an intentional walk.

 

That was the one inning I missed - can someone post a video of the pitch or the sequence?

 

I recall Floyd had a strike called on him (IIRC the inning before the Everett AB) that I thought was at least a few inches off the plate, but the trouble with judging balls and strikes on t.v. is that it is difficult to see where the ball crosses the plate. The catcher can fool you if he catches it in what appears to be the zone, but my understanding is that the ump is looking for where the ball crosses, not where the catcher receives it (or at least he/she should be).