4/5 Cubs (Marquis) @ Reds (Lohse) 11:35CT CSN/XM185

[UMFan83]

7 runs in just about the first 3 games for this awesome offense that everyone was predicting...

 

But of course its early

 

its almost like you want the cubs to lose just so you can say you were right about thinking they would suck.

 

No I just am still bitter about the last 2 seasons, really hurt by watchin the White Sox and Cardinals win world series, and I basically refused to buy into Spring Training optimism like almost everyone else on the board did. I knew it would take more then one season to turn that sorry 2006 team around, but Hendry decided to throw tons of money at mediocre players, leaving the team in a horrible position financially for the next 4-5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Cubs to win every game...but they won't. They'll only win around 78 of them.

 

yep we will only win 12 more games than last year with this team.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Our team OBP was completely not addressed in the offseason. I don't care what you saw in the spring, players don't just randomly get more patient, especially veteran hitters like most of this team is. Our starting pitching is a bunch of spare pieces who can only succeed if they all have career years. Bullpens, our only strength, are a crapshoot at best, which is way only the best relievers don't have up and down careers.

 

Taking all of that into account...

 

 

You think replacing the crap we had at 1B last year with a full season of Derrek Lee, Juan Pierre with Alfonso Soriano, along with significant improvements in the rotation (as bad as you think it may be this year, last year it was worse), only equals 12 more wins?

 

obviously he does

 

I do, I'm pretty sure the win shares equal something around there. I could be wrong though.

[David]

RICHARD HILL will save us tomorrow.

 

I think Rich Hill will have a good game too. But our offense is the thing that needs to be picked up. Not the pitching. Both Lilly and Marquis only gave up 1 earned run in 6-7 innings each. .

 

I think playing in a controlled climate will help somewhat.

 

Did they wind up getting that roof fixed in time?

[oldstyle81]

Soriano - Career OPS of .835. Pat Burrell's is .841 and is much cheaper and plays a similarly deep position

No piere grounding out constantly to second - Replaced by Izzy grounding out constantly to second

Full season of Lee - Puts us closer to the 2005 team which had 79 wins

Protection for Ramirez - Ramirez's numbers were best in his career without Lee's protection last year

no revolving door of no name pitchers - Wait until Marquis and Miller suck

no dusty baker - Yeah true.

no neifi perez throwing balls into the ground and bunting. - Ronny Cedeno throwing alls into the ground and bunting

 

Soriano and Pierre play and bat and play the same position, id glady take the HUGE and yes i MEAN HUGE offensive improvement Soriano is

 

Izturis is batting 8th, he by default will not bat as much as Pierre did last year and his spot isint as important seeing there is still distance between him and the power hitters

 

Lee and 79 wins, thus proving my point that he alone is worth more than the 12 games you think this team is capable of winning, now add Soriano, Derosa ect

 

Imagine Ramirez numbers if the guy infront of him had a 400obp like lee

 

Wait till miller and marquis suck, Prior is healthy, Guzman can go, we can always make trades at the trading deadline[/b]

 

No more Neifi batting first and second everyday while other players sit on the bench because they dont have experience

Edited April 5, 2007 by oldstyle81

[oldstyle81]

7 runs in just about the first 3 games for this awesome offense that everyone was predicting...

 

But of course its early

 

its almost like you want the cubs to lose just so you can say you were right about thinking they would suck.

 

No I just am still bitter about the last 2 seasons, really hurt by watchin the White Sox and Cardinals win world series, and I basically refused to buy into Spring Training optimism like almost everyone else on the board did. I knew it would take more then one season to turn that sorry 2006 team around, but Hendry decided to throw tons of money at mediocre players, leaving the team in a horrible position financially for the next 4-5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Cubs to win every game...but they won't. They'll only win around 78 of them.

 

yep we will only win 12 more games than last year with this team.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Our team OBP was completely not addressed in the offseason. I don't care what you saw in the spring, players don't just randomly get more patient, especially veteran hitters like most of this team is. Our starting pitching is a bunch of spare pieces who can only succeed if they all have career years. Bullpens, our only strength, are a crapshoot at best, which is way only the best relievers don't have up and down careers.

 

Taking all of that into account...

 

 

You think replacing the crap we had at 1B last year with a full season of Derrek Lee, Juan Pierre with Alfonso Soriano, along with significant improvements in the rotation (as bad as you think it may be this year, last year it was worse), only equals 12 more wins?

 

obviously he does

 

I do, I'm pretty sure the win shares equal something around there. I could be wrong though.

 

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, they show a lot but not everything

[C.C.]

RICHARD HILL will save us tomorrow.

 

I think Rich Hill will have a good game too. But our offense is the thing that needs to be picked up. Not the pitching. Both Lilly and Marquis only gave up 1 earned run in 6-7 innings each. .

 

I think playing in a controlled climate will help somewhat.

 

I think the Cubs are going to score some runs this weekend. I'm throwing out the prediction of a Cubs sweep...

[UMFan83]

7 runs in just about the first 3 games for this awesome offense that everyone was predicting...

 

But of course its early

 

its almost like you want the cubs to lose just so you can say you were right about thinking they would suck.

 

No I just am still bitter about the last 2 seasons, really hurt by watchin the White Sox and Cardinals win world series, and I basically refused to buy into Spring Training optimism like almost everyone else on the board did. I knew it would take more then one season to turn that sorry 2006 team around, but Hendry decided to throw tons of money at mediocre players, leaving the team in a horrible position financially for the next 4-5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Cubs to win every game...but they won't. They'll only win around 78 of them.

 

yep we will only win 12 more games than last year with this team.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Our team OBP was completely not addressed in the offseason. I don't care what you saw in the spring, players don't just randomly get more patient, especially veteran hitters like most of this team is. Our starting pitching is a bunch of spare pieces who can only succeed if they all have career years. Bullpens, our only strength, are a crapshoot at best, which is way only the best relievers don't have up and down careers.

 

Taking all of that into account...

 

 

You think replacing the crap we had at 1B last year with a full season of Derrek Lee, Juan Pierre with Alfonso Soriano, along with significant improvements in the rotation (as bad as you think it may be this year, last year it was worse), only equals 12 more wins?

 

obviously he does

 

I do, I'm pretty sure the win shares equal something around there. I could be wrong though.

 

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, they show a lot but not everything

 

Well good thing I'm only using stats to back up my opinion that they will only win 78 games

[Drew Doughty]

--- Edited April 5, 2007 by Drew Doughty

[CaliforniaRaisin]

RICHARD HILL will save us tomorrow.

 

I think Rich Hill will have a good game too. But our offense is the thing that needs to be picked up. Not the pitching. Both Lilly and Marquis only gave up 1 earned run in 6-7 innings each. .

 

I think playing in a controlled climate will help somewhat.

 

I heard the dome roof wasn't working....

[Outshined_One]

I think the bottom line is, despite the amount of turnover and acquisitions that occurred in the offseason, this team still has a ways to go before being a legitimate contender. While the NL this season is pretty bad overall, the Cubs were absolutely terrible and still had to catch up.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have high hopes for this team. However, there are still enough flaws and places this team could upgrade that make me temper those hopes quite a bit.

[Chocolate Milk]

7 runs in just about the first 3 games for this awesome offense that everyone was predicting...

 

But of course its early

 

its almost like you want the cubs to lose just so you can say you were right about thinking they would suck.

 

No I just am still bitter about the last 2 seasons, really hurt by watchin the White Sox and Cardinals win world series, and I basically refused to buy into Spring Training optimism like almost everyone else on the board did. I knew it would take more then one season to turn that sorry 2006 team around, but Hendry decided to throw tons of money at mediocre players, leaving the team in a horrible position financially for the next 4-5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Cubs to win every game...but they won't. They'll only win around 78 of them.

 

yep we will only win 12 more games than last year with this team.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Our team OBP was completely not addressed in the offseason. I don't care what you saw in the spring, players don't just randomly get more patient, especially veteran hitters like most of this team is. Our starting pitching is a bunch of spare pieces who can only succeed if they all have career years. Bullpens, our only strength, are a crapshoot at best, which is way only the best relievers don't have up and down careers.

 

Taking all of that into account...

 

 

You think replacing the crap we had at 1B last year with a full season of Derrek Lee, Juan Pierre with Alfonso Soriano, along with significant improvements in the rotation (as bad as you think it may be this year, last year it was worse), only equals 12 more wins?

 

obviously he does

 

I do, I'm pretty sure the win shares equal something around there. I could be wrong though.

 

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, they show a lot but not everything

 

Well good thing I'm only using stats to back up my opinion that they will only win 78 games

 

What are you using then? Seems like you are being overly pessimistic because you are afraid to be disappointed. Stuff like "Ramirez has his best season last year without Lee, Lee being Healthy puts us closer to 2005, and just wait until they suck" aren't really convincing arguments.

[UMFan83]

Soriano - Career OPS of .835. Pat Burrell's is .841 and is much cheaper and plays a similarly deep position

No piere grounding out constantly to second - Replaced by Izzy grounding out constantly to second

Full season of Lee - Puts us closer to the 2005 team which had 79 wins

Protection for Ramirez - Ramirez's numbers were best in his career without Lee's protection last year

no revolving door of no name pitchers - Wait until Marquis and Miller suck

no dusty baker - Yeah true.

no neifi perez throwing balls into the ground and bunting. - Ronny Cedeno throwing alls into the ground and bunting

 

Soriano and Pierre play and bat and play the same position, id glady take the HUGE and yes i MEAN HUGE offensive improvement Soriano is

 

Pierre had 16 win shares, Soriano had 30. The difference is 14 win shares, which is 4.3 wins over a 162 game season.

 

Izturis is batting 8th, he by default will not bat as much as Pierre did last year and his spot isint as important seeing there is still distance between him and the power hitters

 

The difference is like 40 PA, and with Soriano batting leadoff, the distance between him and Soriano and Pierre and Lee/Ramirez is the same.

 

Lee and 79 wins, thus proving my point that he alone is worth more than the 12 games you think this team is capable of winning, now add Soriano, Derosa ect

 

Now add 27 starts of Prior 10 starts from Wood, Half a season of Nomar, Todd Walker mostly full season...etc

 

Imagine Ramirez numbers if the guy infront of him had a 400obp like lee

 

I did...in 2005

 

Wait till miller and marquis suck, Prior is healthy, Guzman can go, we can always make trades at the trading deadline.

 

With the trib for sale and a $120 mil payroll already we won't be doing much.

 

No more Neifi batting first and second everyday while other players sit on the bench because they dont have experience

[UMFan83]

7 runs in just about the first 3 games for this awesome offense that everyone was predicting...

 

But of course its early

 

its almost like you want the cubs to lose just so you can say you were right about thinking they would suck.

 

No I just am still bitter about the last 2 seasons, really hurt by watchin the White Sox and Cardinals win world series, and I basically refused to buy into Spring Training optimism like almost everyone else on the board did. I knew it would take more then one season to turn that sorry 2006 team around, but Hendry decided to throw tons of money at mediocre players, leaving the team in a horrible position financially for the next 4-5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Cubs to win every game...but they won't. They'll only win around 78 of them.

 

yep we will only win 12 more games than last year with this team.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Our team OBP was completely not addressed in the offseason. I don't care what you saw in the spring, players don't just randomly get more patient, especially veteran hitters like most of this team is. Our starting pitching is a bunch of spare pieces who can only succeed if they all have career years. Bullpens, our only strength, are a crapshoot at best, which is way only the best relievers don't have up and down careers.

 

Taking all of that into account...

 

 

You think replacing the crap we had at 1B last year with a full season of Derrek Lee, Juan Pierre with Alfonso Soriano, along with significant improvements in the rotation (as bad as you think it may be this year, last year it was worse), only equals 12 more wins?

 

obviously he does

 

I do, I'm pretty sure the win shares equal something around there. I could be wrong though.

 

fine. using Lee's 2004 (not his amazing 05) compared to Mabry/Nevin's 06, that would be roughly 13 wins.

 

EDIT: adding in Derrek Lee's 06, that's still 8 wins. So I think somewhere over the course of other improvements, we'll pick up a few more than 4 more wins.

 

Huh? Lee had 21 win shares in 2004, equal to 7 wins. Nevin/Mabry/Lee last year combined for 13 win shares, equal to 4.33 wins. The difference is 2.666 win improvement.

[Laura]

Huh, I predicted 4 more wins than UMFan in the Predictions Contest, and I felt I was being optimistic at 82.

[oldstyle81]

Soriano - Career OPS of .835. Pat Burrell's is .841 and is much cheaper and plays a similarly deep position

No piere grounding out constantly to second - Replaced by Izzy grounding out constantly to second

Full season of Lee - Puts us closer to the 2005 team which had 79 wins

Protection for Ramirez - Ramirez's numbers were best in his career without Lee's protection last year

no revolving door of no name pitchers - Wait until Marquis and Miller suck

no dusty baker - Yeah true.

no neifi perez throwing balls into the ground and bunting. - Ronny Cedeno throwing alls into the ground and bunting

 

Soriano and Pierre play and bat and play the same position, id glady take the HUGE and yes i MEAN HUGE offensive improvement Soriano is

 

Pierre had 16 win shares, Soriano had 30. The difference is 14 win shares, which is 4.3 wins over a 162 game season.

 

Izturis is batting 8th, he by default will not bat as much as Pierre did last year and his spot isint as important seeing there is still distance between him and the power hitters

 

The difference is like 40 PA, and with Soriano batting leadoff, the distance between him and Soriano and Pierre and Lee/Ramirez is the same.

 

Lee and 79 wins, thus proving my point that he alone is worth more than the 12 games you think this team is capable of winning, now add Soriano, Derosa ect

 

Now add 27 starts of Prior 10 starts from Wood, Half a season of Nomar, Todd Walker mostly full season...etc

 

Imagine Ramirez numbers if the guy infront of him had a 400obp like lee

 

I did...in 2005

 

Wait till miller and marquis suck, Prior is healthy, Guzman can go, we can always make trades at the trading deadline.

 

With the trib for sale and a $120 mil payroll already we won't be doing much.

 

No more Neifi batting first and second everyday while other players sit on the bench because they dont have experience

 

The distance between izturis and soriano are the same, yes, but its completely different than Pierre batting directly ahead of Lee, Ramirez ect. you must think the NL has the DL and we dont have to worry about the pitcher spor

 

Wasant Ramirez hurt a lot of the 2005 season, oh yeah, he was, he only played in 123 games thus making your point mute.

 

IF you can say for sure that we wont be doing much id love to hear your source since everything ive heard has the only thing on hold is Zambranos contract.

[98navigator]

Cubs.com

 

The Cubs third baseman, who hit .197 last April, also had three hits on Wednesday. It's the first time he's posted consecutive three-hit games since May 29-31, 2005, when he did so in three consecutive games.

[A New Era]

Funny. Arguing why or why not the cubs will add 4, 5, 6 games in the win column like your life depended on it. I suggest you all chill out and enjoy some good Cubs baseball this year. Because there will be plenty of it.

[Drew Doughty]

7 runs in just about the first 3 games for this awesome offense that everyone was predicting...

 

But of course its early

 

its almost like you want the cubs to lose just so you can say you were right about thinking they would suck.

 

No I just am still bitter about the last 2 seasons, really hurt by watchin the White Sox and Cardinals win world series, and I basically refused to buy into Spring Training optimism like almost everyone else on the board did. I knew it would take more then one season to turn that sorry 2006 team around, but Hendry decided to throw tons of money at mediocre players, leaving the team in a horrible position financially for the next 4-5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Cubs to win every game...but they won't. They'll only win around 78 of them.

 

yep we will only win 12 more games than last year with this team.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Our team OBP was completely not addressed in the offseason. I don't care what you saw in the spring, players don't just randomly get more patient, especially veteran hitters like most of this team is. Our starting pitching is a bunch of spare pieces who can only succeed if they all have career years. Bullpens, our only strength, are a crapshoot at best, which is way only the best relievers don't have up and down careers.

 

Taking all of that into account...

 

 

You think replacing the crap we had at 1B last year with a full season of Derrek Lee, Juan Pierre with Alfonso Soriano, along with significant improvements in the rotation (as bad as you think it may be this year, last year it was worse), only equals 12 more wins?

 

obviously he does

 

I do, I'm pretty sure the win shares equal something around there. I could be wrong though.

 

fine. using Lee's 2004 (not his amazing 05) compared to Mabry/Nevin's 06, that would be roughly 13 wins.

 

EDIT: adding in Derrek Lee's 06, that's still 8 wins. So I think somewhere over the course of other improvements, we'll pick up a few more than 4 more wins.

 

Huh? Lee had 21 win shares in 2004, equal to 7 wins. Nevin/Mabry/Lee last year combined for 13 win shares, equal to 4.33 wins. The difference is 2.666 win improvement.

 

right, which is why i deleted my post.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

My Opinion of this team doesn't change one bit because of this game. Baserunning mistakes and your two best relievers giving up the lead/adding to. wont happen everygame. It was nice to see Marquis pitch really well and the bottom of the lineup hit.

 

I just hate losing like this. giving up a homerun to the sultan of swat himself hatteburg, and giving up the lead on a passed ball with two outs. Also making Weathers look like Dennis Eckersley and Mariano Rivera.

 

If you think this game validates any claim that the Cubs haven't improved or that they are destined for a poor year... well....

[UMFan83]

Soriano - Career OPS of .835. Pat Burrell's is .841 and is much cheaper and plays a similarly deep position

No piere grounding out constantly to second - Replaced by Izzy grounding out constantly to second

Full season of Lee - Puts us closer to the 2005 team which had 79 wins

Protection for Ramirez - Ramirez's numbers were best in his career without Lee's protection last year

no revolving door of no name pitchers - Wait until Marquis and Miller suck

no dusty baker - Yeah true.

no neifi perez throwing balls into the ground and bunting. - Ronny Cedeno throwing alls into the ground and bunting

 

Soriano and Pierre play and bat and play the same position, id glady take the HUGE and yes i MEAN HUGE offensive improvement Soriano is

 

Pierre had 16 win shares, Soriano had 30. The difference is 14 win shares, which is 4.3 wins over a 162 game season.

 

Izturis is batting 8th, he by default will not bat as much as Pierre did last year and his spot isint as important seeing there is still distance between him and the power hitters

 

The difference is like 40 PA, and with Soriano batting leadoff, the distance between him and Soriano and Pierre and Lee/Ramirez is the same.

 

Lee and 79 wins, thus proving my point that he alone is worth more than the 12 games you think this team is capable of winning, now add Soriano, Derosa ect

 

Now add 27 starts of Prior 10 starts from Wood, Half a season of Nomar, Todd Walker mostly full season...etc

 

Imagine Ramirez numbers if the guy infront of him had a 400obp like lee

 

I did...in 2005

 

Wait till miller and marquis suck, Prior is healthy, Guzman can go, we can always make trades at the trading deadline.

 

With the trib for sale and a $120 mil payroll already we won't be doing much.

 

No more Neifi batting first and second everyday while other players sit on the bench because they dont have experience

 

The distance between izturis and soriano are the same, yes, but its completely different than Pierre batting directly ahead of Lee, Ramirez ect. you must think the NL has the DL and we dont have to worry about the pitcher spor

 

You use Dusty Baker as an argument, I am suprised you wouldn't consider a lot of the scrubs that Dusty consistantly put at the 2 spot only marginally better then the pitcher spot.

 

Wasant Ramirez hurt a lot of the 2005 season, oh yeah, he was, he only played in 123 games thus making your point mute.

 

Aramis had 31 HR and 92 RBI in 123 games in 2005. He averages around 152 games a year over an average season. If you project his numbers to 152 games, he hits 38 HR 114 RBI. Last year he hit 38 HR and 119 RBI.

 

IF you can say for sure that we wont be doing much id love to hear your source since everything ive heard has the only thing on hold is Zambranos contract.

 

No just speculation, but since we don't have a lot of chips to trade (dwindling farm system, mediocre players locked up to long term expensive contracts, untouchables make up most of our team), the only way we get better is by taking on a contract. With a record high payroll that is approaching the luxury tax and a team about to be sold, it makes logical sense that we won't have a ton of room to maunver in July.

[98navigator]

My Opinion of this team doesn't change one bit because of this game. Baserunning mistakes and your two best relievers giving up the lead/adding to. wont happen everygame. It was nice to see Marquis pitch really well and the bottom of the lineup hit.

 

I just hate losing like this. giving up a homerun to the sultan of swat himself hatteburg, and giving up the lead on a passed ball with two outs. Also making Weathers look like Dennis Eckersley and Mariano Rivera.

 

If you think this game validates any claim that the Cubs haven't improved or that they are destined for a poor year... well....

 

Agreed! It was a poor game but I don't think it's represenative of how they will play, collectively, all year.

[C.C.]

My Opinion of this team doesn't change one bit because of this game. Baserunning mistakes and your two best relievers giving up the lead/adding to. wont happen everygame. It was nice to see Marquis pitch really well and the bottom of the lineup hit.

 

I just hate losing like this. giving up a homerun to the sultan of swat himself hatteburg, and giving up the lead on a passed ball with two outs. Also making Weathers look like Dennis Eckersley and Mariano Rivera.

 

If you think this game validates any claim that the Cubs haven't improved or that they are destined for a poor year... well....

 

Agreed! It was a poor game but I don't think it's represenative of how they will play, collectively, all year.

 

Marquis and Lilly really were outstanding. So all is not lost.

[UMFan83]

Huh, I predicted 4 more wins than UMFan in the Predictions Contest, and I felt I was being optimistic at 82.

 

Good to know I'm not alone in having an unpopular opinion

[BigSlick]

This game absolutely ruined me because, surprisingly, Marquis pitched well. Theres no reason why we didn't score more runs than we did, and this "aggressive baserunning" better stop, right now.

 

I'm beginning to feel that every at bat with Jacques Jones and Michael Barrett is a sure out. They need to start picking up the slack. The pinch hitting was very interesting, overall the managing was very mediocre. But we'll see Lou hit his stride I'm sure.

 

I'm just hoping we aren't crying over this loss in September when we need every game in the standings. Can't let more than a few of these close ones slip away.

[Laura]

Huh, I predicted 4 more wins than UMFan in the Predictions Contest, and I felt I was being optimistic at 82.

 

Good to know I'm not alone in having an unpopular opinion

 

I posted it last night, so it's not like I changed it based on today's game. Ha.

[Laura]

I'm just hoping we aren't crying over this loss in September when we need every game in the standings. Can't let more than a few of these close ones slip away.

 

As has been endlessly mentioned in the broadcasts, these first month's games are almost entirely within the division. You can't afford to give away games to division opponents due to mental errors and expect to win the division.