MLB stats/Kerry Wood's outing

[seanimal]

So I was following the thread on today's (3/8) game against the Comrades and there was quite the discussion as to whether or not Kerry Wood earned 0 or 1 runs when he gave up the grand slam. However, according to Carrie Muskat and MLB.com,

 

Wood gave up four runs, all earned and all on Terrmel Sledge's grand slam, in one inning while striking out three in the Cubs' 8-6 win over San Diego.

 

Now, I can understand both of the arguments as to why Woody should have been charged either zero or one run, and considering there's an error that wasn't charged, two runs. But all four? Especially when there's only two hits charged to Wood. How can this be?

[CubColtPacer]

So I was following the thread on today's (3/8) game against the Comrades and there was quite the discussion as to whether or not Kerry Wood earned 0 or 1 runs when he gave up the grand slam. However, according to Carrie Muskat and MLB.com,

 

Wood gave up four runs, all earned and all on Terrmel Sledge's grand slam, in one inning while striking out three in the Cubs' 8-6 win over San Diego.

 

Now, I can understand both of the arguments as to why Woody should have been charged either zero or one run, and considering there's an error that wasn't charged, two runs. But all four? Especially when there's only two hits charged to Wood. How can this be?

 

If there is no error, all the runs are always earned. Besides, Wood gave up the other two runners-he hit a batter, and it was his wild pitch that allowed another runner to get on even though he struck him out. All 4 runners were on then because of Wood (without the error), and so all 4 runs are charged to him.

[Bruno7481]

Does it really matter?

[CubColtPacer]

Does it really matter?

 

I think he was asking as a more general thing-the only way it matters in this particular outing is that we might have to read about how Wood was still ineffective in ST because of his 6 or 7 ERA when we know better about actually how effective he was-that will be a little annoying, but I think I can manage that if he keeps doing well :D

[seanimal]

Wood gave up the other two runners-he hit a batter

 

Isn't a hit batsmen an unearned run, just like a walk? I assumed the same applies to someone who is K'd and gets to 1st base on a wild pitch/passed ball. I guess I just hold a strict definition as to what an earned run is, meaning it's actually earned.

[CubColtPacer]

Wood gave up the other two runners-he hit a batter

 

Isn't a hit batsmen an unearned run, just like a walk? I assumed the same applies to someone who is K'd and gets to 1st base on a wild pitch/passed ball.

 

No-unearned runs only come from errors. Runs that come from runners that had Walks, hit batsmen, WP allowing a runner to get on, or hits all would be earned.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Wood gave up the other two runners-he hit a batter

 

Isn't a hit batsmen an unearned run, just like a walk? I assumed the same applies to someone who is K'd and gets to 1st base on a wild pitch/passed ball.

 

None of those would lead to unearned runs. Only errors would.

[Illini Iceman]

Wood gave up the other two runners-he hit a batter

 

Isn't a hit batsmen an unearned run, just like a walk? I assumed the same applies to someone who is K'd and gets to 1st base on a wild pitch/passed ball.

 

Pitchers only dream about walks being unearned runs.

[seanimal]

No-unearned runs only come from errors. Runs that come from runners that had Walks, hit batsmen, WP allowing a runner to get on, or hits all would be earned.

 

Right on, thanks for the clarification. Regardless, I still believe that Woody had a much better outing than this line score would lead others to deduce.

[rawaction]

A passed ball that allows a run to score that wouldn't have otherwise scored is NOT an error, but the run is unearned.

[nilodnayr]

Wood gave up the other two runners-he hit a batter

 

Isn't a hit batsmen an unearned run, just like a walk? I assumed the same applies to someone who is K'd and gets to 1st base on a wild pitch/passed ball.

 

Pitchers only dream about walks being unearned runs.

 

Our staff ERA would have been like negative eleventy thousand if that was the case.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

No-unearned runs only come from errors. Runs that come from runners that had Walks, hit batsmen, WP allowing a runner to get on, or hits all would be earned.

 

Right on, thanks for the clarification. Regardless, I still believe that Woody had a much better outing than this line score would lead others to deduce.

 

Woody seemed to agree in the post-game quotes.

[Bull]

A passed ball that allows a run to score that wouldn't have otherwise scored is NOT an error, but the run is unearned.

 

Which leads to the age-old question: Why aren't PB and WP errors? ( I know the balls aren't in play, but still)

[Derwood]

A passed ball that allows a run to score that wouldn't have otherwise scored is NOT an error, but the run is unearned.

 

Which leads to the age-old question: Why aren't PB and WP errors? ( I know the balls aren't in play, but still)

 

no, the real question is "why have unearned runs at all?" The only point is to help individual players' ERA's. It's not like the runs don't count. For example, one of the first games this spring had the Cubs giving up like 9 runs, only 2 or 3 of which were earned. So what? The Cubs gave up 9 runs. Don't pretty up the stats and tell a false story here. If you come in and give up 6 runs, you gave up 6 runs.

[BigbadB]

no, the real question is "why have unearned runs at all?" The only point is to help individual players' ERA's. It's not like the runs don't count. For example, one of the first games this spring had the Cubs giving up like 9 runs, only 2 or 3 of which were earned. So what? The Cubs gave up 9 runs. Don't pretty up the stats and tell a false story here. If you come in and give up 6 runs, you gave up 6 runs.

 

I don't think it should be THAT black and white, but I do understand what you are saying. There are times that the pitcher really isn't to blame for the runs that score, so I still want a little accuracy when viewing the stats of a game. Differentiating between ERA and runs given up in general are useful stats, but don't really tell the whole story.

 

As a team, yes, all runs scored count. No doubt. Doesn't matter how they score.

[Soul]

no, the real question is "why have unearned runs at all?" The only point is to help individual players' ERA's. It's not like the runs don't count. For example, one of the first games this spring had the Cubs giving up like 9 runs, only 2 or 3 of which were earned. So what? The Cubs gave up 9 runs. Don't pretty up the stats and tell a false story here. If you come in and give up 6 runs, you gave up 6 runs.

 

I don't think it should be THAT black and white, but I do understand what you are saying. There are times that the pitcher really isn't to blame for the runs that score, so I still want a little accuracy when viewing the stats of a game. Differentiating between ERA and runs given up in general are useful stats, but don't really tell the whole story.

 

As a team, yes, all runs scored count. No doubt. Doesn't matter how they score.

 

I generally agree with the sentiment. The biggest problem I see is the subjective judging of what constitutes an error. I suppose it should more or less even out over the course of a long schedule.

[BigbadB]

I generally agree with the sentiment. The biggest problem I see is the subjective judging of what constitutes an error. I suppose it should more or less even out over the course of a long schedule.

 

It should even out, but I don't think it does for everyone. I watched A-Rod make 3 errors in a game when he was with Texas and they were playing against San Diego. I don't think the official scorer charged him for any. If he did, it was only one. I recall being quite peeved about it.

 

Each official scorer of a ballgame has their own identity and form their own opinions about each play. Some will likely be homers that give their own players the benefit of the doubt. Some will likely show favortism to marquis (sp?) players.

 

But, for the most part, I agree that it will even out.

 

And while it's not all that fair for a pitcher to be charged for runs after an error, there are also plays that bail out the pitcher. Like outfield assists. The pitcher gave up a lead off double, but the outfielder nailed the runner trying to take the extra base. There are a bunch of those plays, so the pitcher's ERA also reflects those.

[Rob]

I generally agree with the sentiment. The biggest problem I see is the subjective judging of what constitutes an error. I suppose it should more or less even out over the course of a long schedule.

 

It should even out, but I don't think it does for everyone. I watched A-Rod make 3 errors in a game when he was with Texas and they were playing against San Diego. I don't think the official scorer charged him for any. If he did, it was only one. I recall being quite peeved about it.

 

Each official scorer of a ballgame has their own identity and form their own opinions about each play. Some will likely be homers that give their own players the benefit of the doubt. Some will likely show favortism to marquis (sp?) players.

 

But, for the most part, I agree that it will even out.

 

And while it's not all that fair for a pitcher to be charged for runs after an error, there are also plays that bail out the pitcher. Like outfield assists. The pitcher gave up a lead off double, but the outfielder nailed the runner trying to take the extra base. There are a bunch of those plays, so the pitcher's ERA also reflects those.

 

Marquis is nobody's favorite player.

[seanimal]

no, the real question is "why have unearned runs at all?" The only point is to help individual players' ERA's. It's not like the runs don't count. For example, one of the first games this spring had the Cubs giving up like 9 runs, only 2 or 3 of which were earned. So what? The Cubs gave up 9 runs. Don't pretty up the stats and tell a false story here. If you come in and give up 6 runs, you gave up 6 runs.

 

I don't think it should be THAT black and white, but I do understand what you are saying. There are times that the pitcher really isn't to blame for the runs that score, so I still want a little accuracy when viewing the stats of a game. Differentiating between ERA and runs given up in general are useful stats, but don't really tell the whole story.

 

As a team, yes, all runs scored count. No doubt. Doesn't matter how they score.

 

Yes, while all runs count, it is a little too black and white to charge every run to the pitcher on the mound, because that would be a false story as well. Like Stoney once said during a rain delay soliloquy, "Baseball, like life, is a collection of shades of gray."

[NCCubFan]

Marquis is nobody's favorite player.

I disagree. I'm sure he's his family's favorite player. :lol: