Rampant Speculation re: Prior Thread (Legit info welcome)

[CuseCubFan69]

Jayson Stark said on M&M this morning that Prior was throwing 81 and 82. No one has even come close to mentioning these numbers. This seems like irresponsible journalism. Give the story some time and soon it will be he was throwing in the high 70's. Jeez

 

I just got a report out of Arizona that they had a tee set up near homeplate, and Prior just simulated a delivery while someone ran out and put the ball on the tee.

 

Thanks Jay!

[98navigator]

Am I the only one that just saw the total undressing Prior received by the idiot panel on Chicago Tribune Live? Mike North said "Prior is through, he's done" and he's so dumb that he thinks Prior pitching behind Lilly on Saturday means the Cubs have put him in the bullpen. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

Then Dan Jiggets said: "they ought to send him to the Sox so Dr Cooper can help him." Are you kidding me?

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Am I the only one that just saw the total undressing Prior received by the idiot panel on Chicago Tribune Live? Mike North said "Prior is through, he's done" and he's so dumb that he thinks Prior pitching behind Lilly on Saturday means the Cubs have put him in the bullpen. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

Then Dan Jiggets said: "they ought to send him to the Sox so Dr Cooper can help him." Are you kidding me?

 

I didn't see the interview, but I can't say I can disagree with calling him "done" at this point.

 

Recap, his last game he pitched against Milwaukee (06) got pounded. Never reached over 88-89. He spent the entire offseason working on his mechanics and strengthening his shoulder.

 

Spring 2007, Cubs Nation gets excited over the fact that he has completed all drills and exercises along with the rest of the staff... wooo hooo.

 

First game back, gets pounded again and again does not reach over 88.

 

While I would love to see him back as the dominate Prior he once was, I am more inclined to think he is used and abused...over and done, call it a day!

[Outshined_One]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

[Sarcastic]

Am I the only one that just saw the total undressing Prior received by the idiot panel on Chicago Tribune Live? Mike North said "Prior is through, he's done" and he's so dumb that he thinks Prior pitching behind Lilly on Saturday means the Cubs have put him in the bullpen. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

Then Dan Jiggets said: "they ought to send him to the Sox so Dr Cooper can help him." Are you kidding me?

 

I didn't see the interview, but I can't say I can disagree with calling him "done" at this point.

 

Recap, his last game he pitched against Milwaukee (06) got pounded. Never reached over 88-89. He spent the entire offseason working on his mechanics and strengthening his shoulder.

 

Spring 2007, Cubs Nation gets excited over the fact that he has completed all drills and exercises along with the rest of the staff... wooo hooo.

 

First game back, gets pounded again and again does not reach over 88.

 

While I would love to see him back as the dominate Prior he once was, I am more inclined to think he is used and abused...over and done, call it a day!

 

40 pitches. In a spring training game. It is virtually meaningless. The only reason these columnists are all over it is because baseball fans want news and there is practically nothing new going on right now.

 

You can argue that he'll never be healthy again, but until I see him suck for a healthy regular season, (2006 doesn't count), I see no reason to say that he's lost his talent.

[98navigator]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

[Amazing_Grace]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

 

I don't think Miller's chances are better than Prior's. I think they're worse. Miller is old and Prior is young. Prior has a good chance, with time, to reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher. If he doesn't get his velocity back, he won't be the same as he was in 2003, but he still has the chance to be very effective.

 

By the way, no one answered my question about how many pitches he threw. What pitches does he throw?

[98navigator]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

 

I don't think Miller's chances are better than Prior's. I think they're worse. Miller is old and Prior is young. Prior has a good chance, with time, to reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher. If he doesn't get his velocity back, he won't be the same as he was in 2003, but he still has the chance to be very effective.

 

By the way, no one answered my question about how many pitches he threw. What pitches does he throw?

 

I don't understand. It looks like we agree...

 

Prior threw 40-41 pitches.

[Sarcastic]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

 

I don't think Miller's chances are better than Prior's. I think they're worse. Miller is old and Prior is young. Prior has a good chance, with time, to reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher. If he doesn't get his velocity back, he won't be the same as he was in 2003, but he still has the chance to be very effective.

 

By the way, no one answered my question about how many pitches he threw. What pitches does he throw?

 

Mostly he throws a 2 seam and a 4 seam fastball and a curveball, but I'm pretty he sure he also throws a changeup occasionally.

[Amazing_Grace]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

 

I don't think Miller's chances are better than Prior's. I think they're worse. Miller is old and Prior is young. Prior has a good chance, with time, to reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher. If he doesn't get his velocity back, he won't be the same as he was in 2003, but he still has the chance to be very effective.

 

By the way, no one answered my question about how many pitches he threw. What pitches does he throw?

 

I don't understand. It looks like we agree...

 

Prior threw 40-41 pitches.

 

Yeah, I meant to agree with you and point out that I was another one that thinks Prior has a better shot to come back than Miller. I'm making short, lazy posts while I'm at work.

[Amazing_Grace]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

 

I don't think Miller's chances are better than Prior's. I think they're worse. Miller is old and Prior is young. Prior has a good chance, with time, to reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher. If he doesn't get his velocity back, he won't be the same as he was in 2003, but he still has the chance to be very effective.

 

By the way, no one answered my question about how many pitches he threw. What pitches does he throw?

 

Mostly he throws a 2 seam and a 4 seam fastball and a curveball, but I'm pretty he sure he also throws a changeup occasionally.

 

Thanks, this is what I was looking for but botched up the language.

[CubColtPacer]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

I wouldn't think Prior's done if he can't regain his velocity, but I do think he'd have to re-invent himself a little bit. Wade would be a little bit closer in this regard-Wade showed pitches (including his fastball) that had great lateral movement to them when he was up at the end of last season. That allowed him to fool hitters and get such a high strikeout total.

Prior when he was dominant had a straighter fastball that the movement was really more of an explosion-that pop at the end that had people behind it. A loss in velocity would be much more devastating to a guy like that than one with lateral movement. I do think Prior could overcome that, but he would have to rework some of his pitches and really learn not to depend on his fastball as he did in the past.

 

I think Prior could possibly have a future in the league without the velocity, but I think Miller would be a better ML pitcher this year throwing 90 or less than Prior would.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Am I the only one that just saw the total undressing Prior received by the idiot panel on Chicago Tribune Live? Mike North said "Prior is through, he's done" and he's so dumb that he thinks Prior pitching behind Lilly on Saturday means the Cubs have put him in the bullpen. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

Then Dan Jiggets said: "they ought to send him to the Sox so Dr Cooper can help him." Are you kidding me?

 

I didn't see the interview, but I can't say I can disagree with calling him "done" at this point.

 

Recap, his last game he pitched against Milwaukee (06) got pounded. Never reached over 88-89. He spent the entire offseason working on his mechanics and strengthening his shoulder.

 

Spring 2007, Cubs Nation gets excited over the fact that he has completed all drills and exercises along with the rest of the staff... wooo hooo.

 

First game back, gets pounded again and again does not reach over 88.

 

While I would love to see him back as the dominate Prior he once was, I am more inclined to think he is used and abused...over and done, call it a day!

 

I'm pretty sure topping out at 88-89 is considered reaching over 88.

[Guest]

Remind me again, why the heck do people think Wade Miller can be an asset if he throws in the high 80s, yet Prior is washed up for throwing in the high 80s?

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this is a weird paradox to me.

 

Actually, I think people were trashing Miller (me included) for losing his velocity. Considering Prior is 5 years younger, and has never had surgery, I think he'll regain velocity before Miller.

 

I don't think Miller's chances are better than Prior's. I think they're worse. Miller is old and Prior is young. Prior has a good chance, with time, to reinvent himself as a finesse pitcher. If he doesn't get his velocity back, he won't be the same as he was in 2003, but he still has the chance to be very effective.

 

By the way, no one answered my question about how many pitches he threw. What pitches does he throw?

 

Mostly he throws a 2 seam and a 4 seam fastball and a curveball, but I'm pretty he sure he also throws a changeup occasionally.

I recall Prior throwing:

 

2 seam fastball

4 seam fastball

tight, 12-6 curve

somewhat bigger curve with tilt (very slider-like)

circle changeup

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Am I the only one that just saw the total undressing Prior received by the idiot panel on Chicago Tribune Live? Mike North said "Prior is through, he's done" and he's so dumb that he thinks Prior pitching behind Lilly on Saturday means the Cubs have put him in the bullpen. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

Then Dan Jiggets said: "they ought to send him to the Sox so Dr Cooper can help him." Are you kidding me?

 

I didn't see the interview, but I can't say I can disagree with calling him "done" at this point.

 

Recap, his last game he pitched against Milwaukee (06) got pounded. Never reached over 88-89. He spent the entire offseason working on his mechanics and strengthening his shoulder.

 

Spring 2007, Cubs Nation gets excited over the fact that he has completed all drills and exercises along with the rest of the staff... wooo hooo.

 

First game back, gets pounded again and again does not reach over 88.

 

While I would love to see him back as the dominate Prior he once was, I am more inclined to think he is used and abused...over and done, call it a day!

 

I'm pretty sure topping out at 88-89 is considered reaching over 88.

 

Here is my problem with debating over numbers like 86, 87, 88, 89 ... The fact is this., his fastball is strait and is getting pounded. He will not survive the first inning of any big league game if he doesn't figure something out soon.

 

At this point (and yes, it is very early) he has not showed much of anything and all reports on velocity are cause for concern.

[Soul]

......just gonna wait for another 2 ST starts. That's all.

[SouthSideRyan]

....just not gonna make an insane reaction based on 40 pitches. That's all.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Am I the only one that just saw the total undressing Prior received by the idiot panel on Chicago Tribune Live? Mike North said "Prior is through, he's done" and he's so dumb that he thinks Prior pitching behind Lilly on Saturday means the Cubs have put him in the bullpen. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

Then Dan Jiggets said: "they ought to send him to the Sox so Dr Cooper can help him." Are you kidding me?

 

I didn't see the interview, but I can't say I can disagree with calling him "done" at this point.

 

Recap, his last game he pitched against Milwaukee (06) got pounded. Never reached over 88-89. He spent the entire offseason working on his mechanics and strengthening his shoulder.

 

Spring 2007, Cubs Nation gets excited over the fact that he has completed all drills and exercises along with the rest of the staff... wooo hooo.

 

First game back, gets pounded again and again does not reach over 88.

 

While I would love to see him back as the dominate Prior he once was, I am more inclined to think he is used and abused...over and done, call it a day!

 

I'm pretty sure topping out at 88-89 is considered reaching over 88.

 

Here is my problem with debating over numbers like 86, 87, 88, 89 ... The fact is this., his fastball is strait and is getting pounded. He will not survive the first inning of any big league game if he doesn't figure something out soon.

 

At this point (and yes, it is very early) he has not showed much of anything and all reports on velocity are cause for concern.

 

It's just too early to make the definite statements that you are, especially when we've heard stories that make it seem like he wasn't going at 100%.

[Rusch33]

When will the press count on Cubs fans knowing whatever we get out of Prior is gravy?

 

Who cares about Prior besides Lou Piniella.. and he doesn't seem to have any problems with Prior.

 

He's a 5th starter this year, and everyone is freaking out..

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Raisin....

 

I want the guy to be better than Z, I want to see the same dominate pitcher that smoked the Braves in the LDS in 03. Believe me, I want that more than anything from our staff.

 

However, my comments are not based off of one spring training game...they are based off of what appears to be the new Prior. The Detroit game, the Milwaukee game and all of 06 was a disaster

 

Let's just hope he finds movement and some velocity or he will rank as one of the biggest disappointments in recent Cub history.

[Sarcastic]

When will the press count on Cubs fans knowing whatever we get out of Prior is gravy?

 

Who cares about Prior besides Lou Piniella.. and he doesn't seem to have any problems with Prior.

 

He's a 5th starter this year, and everyone is freaking out..

 

I think it is pretty clear that Prior is still important to the team. Sure, they have a shot without him, but a healthy Prior would be huge. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but his potential alone is reason enough to care.

[RammyFanny]

I'm sure this was probably said before but it was reported that Prior didn't throw any breaking balls, so i'm sure the hitters were expecting fastballs. They probably just wanted him to focus on mechanics and not offspeed pitches or velocity. I remember an interview from someone on the other team and he said he knew fastballs were coming on every pitch so he had an advantage.

[Sarcastic]

Raisin....

 

I want the guy to be better than Z, I want to see the same dominate pitcher that smoked the Braves in the LDS in 03. Believe me, I want that more than anything from our staff.

 

However, my comments are not based off of one spring training game...they are based off of what appears to be the new Prior. The Detroit game, the Milwaukee game and all of 06 was a disaster

 

Let's just hope he finds movement and some velocity or he will rank as one of the biggest disappointments in recent Cub history.

 

I think it was pretty clear that he was pitching hurt in 2006. If he can't pitch decently once he is fully healthy, then we can say that he is done for good.

[Rusch33]

When will the press count on Cubs fans knowing whatever we get out of Prior is gravy?

 

Who cares about Prior besides Lou Piniella.. and he doesn't seem to have any problems with Prior.

 

He's a 5th starter this year, and everyone is freaking out..

 

I think it is pretty clear that Prior is still important to the team. Sure, they have a shot without him, but a healthy Prior would be huge. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but his potential alone is reason enough to care.

 

Not going to disagree, but it should be expected by now.

 

It's ridiculous though that they have to make news when prior isn't pitching or make news when he is pitching.

 

Who cares how fast he's throwing the ball? I want to know how effective he was hitting his spots, and how he felt the day after.

 

This is the same crap that ESPN and every other analyst did to Pedro when he "lost" his velocity.

[Magnetic Curses]

i'll wrap up what i've said in a few posts in this thread and others:

 

the pitch that sets everything up for prior is his 2-seem fastball, which he throws in the 88-92 neighborhood. this pitch, when he throws it effectively, has good downward movement. a hitter has a difficult time picking up the difference between it and his 4-seemer, which he throws at 94-95 in the zone.

 

when he's not throwing the 2-seemer effectively, hitters know it and sit on his 4-seemer, which doesn't move as much and is primarily used to keep hitters honest under optimal conditions.

 

last season, it looked like prior was throwing the 4-seemer at it's regular velocity without problem. well, i shouldn't say "without problem" because there was a very big problem, he couldn't throw anything else for strikes. none of his uniquely nasty pitches were working, and he had to rely on gas to get the ball over. any pitcher can rely on the hard stuff, though, it simply made him a bad pitcher capable of hitting the mid-90's on the gun.

 

what my point is: don't worry about velocity. it will be there, he'll work it back up and will be firing the ball in the mid-to-low 90's fairly soon. what SHOULD scare you is the possibility that his "special" pitches won't come back, and that has nothing to do with what he displayed in his first outing--it was just that, his first live performance after a long layoff. give him some time to get a feel for his pitches, if he can't, then it will be a long year for him. thankfully, we have contingencies.