Big Z will leave

[rocket]

Z shouldn't be chastized b/c he was put in an advantageous bargaining position?

 

Business, my hiney. How many generations of his family do the Cubs have to provide for? How about some love for the fans who've loved him from day 1?

 

Do you love Chicago or don't you? It seems as though we only deserve first crack at giving you your massive contact. Wow, I thought we would get more than that.

 

ARam is looking more and more like a team player. I don't want to hear another soul whine about his game ever again.

 

Some guys play the game to win. Others play for themselves. I thought Z was in the first group. Wrong.

 

Why is Z automatically the bad guy? Why not look at it from the perspective of Carlos Zambrano has given the Cubs 3 very good seasons, why can't the Cubs reward him with the contract that he wants? Z has been very good for the Cubs, why should he give them a reduced price? Shouldn't the Cubs do the honorable thing and pay him what the market dictates?

 

You say Z is being greedy. Maybe the Cubs are being stingy.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

if z really cared about being a cub he'd play for the league minimum. but no, he's got to be selfish and actually ask to be paid what the market dictates.

 

Yeah, b/c hometown discounts for an org that drafted and developed you is completely out of line.

 

Bastard Cubs organization. Worthless arrogant SOBs.

 

It's a negotiation tactic. Hendry is in a situation where he basically has to re-sign Z, I honestly don't think Z is gone in 2008 (for better or for worse). I'm not sure why Z should be chastised for not taking a hometown discount - especially not talking about it now that negotiation time is near.

 

Just like both Aramis situations, I think some people are overreacting a bit (granted I was in on the Aramis overreacting the last time).

 

Z shouldn't be chastized b/c he was put in an advantageous bargaining position?

 

Business, my hiney. How many generations of his family do the Cubs have to provide for? How about some love for the fans who've loved him from day 1?

 

Do you love Chicago or don't you? It seems as though we only deserve first crack at giving you your massive contact. Wow, I thought we would get more than that.

 

ARam is looking more and more like a team player. I don't want to hear another soul whine about his game ever again.

 

Some guys play the game to win. Others play for themselves. I thought Z was in the first group. Wrong.

 

I'll wait for the whole thing to play out before I judge - Aramis was gettling a lot of flack before he signed his most recent contract.

 

And if Z really wants Zito money, he is letting the Cubs sign him for less than his market value.

[Soul]

Look at the market. Market value for Z is easily in the upper teens per year over a long term deal.

 

I'll bet Z would sign with the Cubs happily if he was simply offered market value for a top tier pitcher.

 

No. The problem here is that Hendry blew his wad and now can't meet the market for his one ace starter (presumably).

[frostwyrm]

It could be argued that Z taking the same contract as Zito would constitute a hometown discount, since Z is better and younger than Zito.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Z shouldn't be chastized b/c he was put in an advantageous bargaining position?

 

Business, my hiney. How many generations of his family do the Cubs have to provide for? How about some love for the fans who've loved him from day 1?

 

Do you love Chicago or don't you? It seems as though we only deserve first crack at giving you your massive contact. Wow, I thought we would get more than that.

 

ARam is looking more and more like a team player. I don't want to hear another soul whine about his game ever again.

 

Some guys play the game to win. Others play for themselves. I thought Z was in the first group. Wrong.

 

Why is Z automatically the bad guy? Why not look at it from the perspective of Carlos Zambrano has given the Cubs 3 very good seasons, why can't the Cubs reward him with the contract that he wants? Z has been very good for the Cubs, why should he give them a reduced price? Shouldn't the Cubs do the honorable thing and pay him what the market dictates?

 

You say Z is being greedy. Maybe the Cubs are being stingy.

 

Z is due for a major injury sometime in the near future. His K/BB trend scares the crap out of me.

 

Dude is not a pitcher. He's a thrower. It just happens that his stuff is so freaking good he's made it this far. Z is in for a major plummet.

 

Z is a dink for saying he'd leave if he didn't get an extension by opening day. It's one thing to say you don't want to negotiate during the season (that's common). It's another to say you're gone if an extension isn't inked by opening day. Selfish jerk.

 

Now we know how "Carlos Zambrano thinks."

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Z shouldn't be chastized b/c he was put in an advantageous bargaining position?

 

Business, my hiney. How many generations of his family do the Cubs have to provide for? How about some love for the fans who've loved him from day 1?

 

Do you love Chicago or don't you? It seems as though we only deserve first crack at giving you your massive contact. Wow, I thought we would get more than that.

 

ARam is looking more and more like a team player. I don't want to hear another soul whine about his game ever again.

 

Some guys play the game to win. Others play for themselves. I thought Z was in the first group. Wrong.

 

Why is Z automatically the bad guy? Why not look at it from the perspective of Carlos Zambrano has given the Cubs 3 very good seasons, why can't the Cubs reward him with the contract that he wants? Z has been very good for the Cubs, why should he give them a reduced price? Shouldn't the Cubs do the honorable thing and pay him what the market dictates?

 

You say Z is being greedy. Maybe the Cubs are being stingy.

 

Z is due for a major injury sometime in the near future. His K/BB trend scares the crap out of me.

 

Dude is not a pitcher. He's a thrower. It just happens that his stuff is so freaking good he's made it this far. Z is in for a major plummet.

 

Z is a dink for saying he'd leave if he didn't get an extension by opening day. It's one thing to say you don't want to negotiate during the season (that's common). It's another to say you're gone if an extension isn't inked by opening day. Selfish jerk.

 

Now we know how "Carlos Zambrano thinks."

 

I doubt he means it though, and it appears a lot of us feel the same way.

 

And he is due for a major injury, I agree.

 

But Zito money is a good deal given Z is better than Zito, younger than Zito and there's also salary inflation for next offseason to think about.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Z shouldn't be chastized b/c he was put in an advantageous bargaining position?

 

Business, my hiney. How many generations of his family do the Cubs have to provide for? How about some love for the fans who've loved him from day 1?

 

Do you love Chicago or don't you? It seems as though we only deserve first crack at giving you your massive contact. Wow, I thought we would get more than that.

 

ARam is looking more and more like a team player. I don't want to hear another soul whine about his game ever again.

 

Some guys play the game to win. Others play for themselves. I thought Z was in the first group. Wrong.

 

Why is Z automatically the bad guy? Why not look at it from the perspective of Carlos Zambrano has given the Cubs 3 very good seasons, why can't the Cubs reward him with the contract that he wants? Z has been very good for the Cubs, why should he give them a reduced price? Shouldn't the Cubs do the honorable thing and pay him what the market dictates?

 

You say Z is being greedy. Maybe the Cubs are being stingy.

 

Z is due for a major injury sometime in the near future. His K/BB trend scares the crap out of me.

 

Dude is not a pitcher. He's a thrower. It just happens that his stuff is so freaking good he's made it this far. Z is in for a major plummet.

 

Z is a dink for saying he'd leave if he didn't get an extension by opening day. It's one thing to say you don't want to negotiate during the season (that's common). It's another to say you're gone if an extension isn't inked by opening day. Selfish jerk.

 

Now we know how "Carlos Zambrano thinks."

 

I doubt he means it though, and it appears a lot of us feel the same way.

 

And he is due for a major injury, I agree.

 

But Zito money is a good deal given Z is better than Zito, younger than Zito and there's also salary inflation for next offseason to think about.

 

A Zito deal is good for Z given that he's due for a major injury?

 

What was Wood's last contract? 3 years?

 

You want to see us pay Z for 6+ years of Wood/Prior DL madness?

 

I love what Z has done, but I'm a little gunshy. I don't blame Z for his impending injury. That's all on Dustbag, the pitcher killer. But it's just plum ridiculous to pay Z for PAST performance.

[rocket]

well now we know who the cubs fans are going to blame and scapegoat when things go wrong this season

[CubColtPacer]

Z shouldn't be chastized b/c he was put in an advantageous bargaining position?

 

Business, my hiney. How many generations of his family do the Cubs have to provide for? How about some love for the fans who've loved him from day 1?

 

Do you love Chicago or don't you? It seems as though we only deserve first crack at giving you your massive contact. Wow, I thought we would get more than that.

 

ARam is looking more and more like a team player. I don't want to hear another soul whine about his game ever again.

 

Some guys play the game to win. Others play for themselves. I thought Z was in the first group. Wrong.

 

Why is Z automatically the bad guy? Why not look at it from the perspective of Carlos Zambrano has given the Cubs 3 very good seasons, why can't the Cubs reward him with the contract that he wants? Z has been very good for the Cubs, why should he give them a reduced price? Shouldn't the Cubs do the honorable thing and pay him what the market dictates?

 

You say Z is being greedy. Maybe the Cubs are being stingy.

 

Z is due for a major injury sometime in the near future. His K/BB trend scares the crap out of me.

 

Dude is not a pitcher. He's a thrower. It just happens that his stuff is so freaking good he's made it this far. Z is in for a major plummet.

 

Z is a dink for saying he'd leave if he didn't get an extension by opening day. It's one thing to say you don't want to negotiate during the season (that's common). It's another to say you're gone if an extension isn't inked by opening day. Selfish jerk.

 

Now we know how "Carlos Zambrano thinks."

 

I doubt he means it though, and it appears a lot of us feel the same way.

 

And he is due for a major injury, I agree.

 

But Zito money is a good deal given Z is better than Zito, younger than Zito and there's also salary inflation for next offseason to think about.

 

A Zito deal is good for Z given that he's due for a major injury?

 

What was Wood's last contract? 3 years?

 

You want to see us pay Z for 6+ years of Wood/Prior DL madness?

 

I love what Z has done, but I'm a little gunshy. I don't blame Z for his impending injury. That's all on Dusty, the pitcher killer. But it's just plum ridiculous to pay Z for PAST performance.

 

True-but from Z's perspective, he's not ready for a major injury, and he deserves to get paid more than Zito. He also knows if he has a good year he will get more than Zito, and he like most pitchers fully expects to have a good year. You're basically saying that Z should accept less than he would normally get, and the only way he'd do that is if he agrees that he's a major injury risk, which he obviously doesn't. That's a reason for the club not to sign him to that money, but Z is perfectly reasonable to ask for that type of money.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

A Zito deal is good for Z given that he's due for a major injury?

 

What was Wood's last contract? 3 years?

 

You want to see us pay Z for 6+ years of Wood/Prior DL madness?

 

I love what Z has done, but I'm a little gunshy. I don't blame Z for his impending injury. That's all on Dusty, the pitcher killer. But it's just plum ridiculous to pay Z for PAST performance.

 

I have already said I would probably not re-sign Z and would try to trade him if I could get good value.

 

That doesn't make Z's requests and statements that bad or ridiculous - we don't know that he'll get hurt and he is asking for Zito money while being younger and better than Zito has been. He has set a deadine and tried to show he'll stick to the deadline (I doubt he will). All baseball contracts pay for past performance, and Z has been underpaid during his arby years (just like most all baseball players), I can't blame him for asking for what is probably less than he'll get on the open market.

[brinoch]

if z really cared about being a cub he'd play for the league minimum. but no, he's got to be selfish and actually ask to be paid what the market dictates.

 

Yeah, b/c hometown discounts for an org that drafted and developed you is completely out of line.

 

Bastard Cubs organization. Worthless arrogant SOBs.

 

If a player wants to give a certain team a discount, that's his decision. But there's no rational reason Carlos should give the Cubs any discounts. Baseball is a business, and both Jim and Carlos know this. Carlos wants to receive his market value, or better, and if the Cubs won't give it to him, then he should be free to go elsewhere.

 

That's the whole point of free agency, by the way.

 

By the way, a team that develops a talented player receives that player's services at a deep discount for many years -- there's your hometown discount. In my book, a player should exercise every right they have to make their market value. After all, the teams use every right they have to keep salaries low prior to arby years and during the arby years.

[sethuel1]

Who developed me? i developed myself

[rocket]

Who developed Carlos Zambrano? Big Z developed himself

 

fixed

[bc2k]

I disagree with the thinking that states Z is an injury waiting to happen.

 

Hendry needs to respond publicly to Zambrano's very clear and direct statements.

[A New Era]

Who developed Carlos Zambrano? Big Z developed himself

 

fixed

 

I was gonna do that too. :lol:

[Amazing_Grace]

After further churning this one around in my head, I think I've come up with Jimbo's possible thinking. The organization is in win-now mode, presumably because the Trib thinks a WS champion Cubs team will sell for substantially more money than the lovable losers. Whoever buys the Cubs next offseason will have to make a decision about the GM. However, if the Cubs aren't sold, the situation isn't much different. Either way, Jim knows that with his record being lackluster since 2003 and the fans starting to really turn against him, another losing season will probably cost him his job. So what does he do? He overpays for FA's to do whatever it takes to win this year. He knows that worst come to worst, Z goes to arbritration and we have him for this year. Hendry knows that if the Cubs don't win and maybe even if they do win, Z will walk, but it won't matter to him because if the Cubs lose he'd be fired regardless and if they win the WS, his job is probably safe no matter what else happens. If they make the playoffs and don't reach the WS, he's betting that the new ownership or the Trib, whichever, will come up with enough cash to satisfy Zambrano long term or that Zambrano will take a big money one year deal, to go for the WS in Chicago one last time (not a bad bet that one of these two would occur). In any case, Hendry has no reason to even care about the Cubs beyond this year.

 

Leaving Hendry in place this offseason was, IMHO, a bad move for reasons like this. He is showing all the classic signs of a desperate GM throwing caution to the wind in a desperate play to save his own butt.

[SouthSideRyan]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

[Sarcastic]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

 

And so it begins.

[sethuel1]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

depends if i come home drunk again

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

 

Umm, wow.

[Mizzou]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

You don't want him signed long-term; we get it.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

You don't want him signed long-term; we get it.

 

Don't be an ass. Ooops. Too late.

[Andy]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

You don't want him signed long-term; we get it.

 

Don't be an ass. Ooops. Too late.

My prediction is that Rich will be dead on Hendry's doorstep due to injecting heroin into his forehead sometime in the next month.

[Sarcastic]

Ahhh 18 pages, just what I was hoping for. If we could have the mass suicide threats/giving up on the Cubs threats the day before he signs his long term deal, that would be just spectacular.

 

His reported potential long-term deal is worthy of suicide.

 

And so it begins.

 

Just so I can get it in before the lock: Did I call this one or what?