Big Z will leave

[nilodnayr]

Z is being a turd. How about a hometown discount?

 

Hometown discounts shouldn't be expected. They should be considered as a pleasant surprise if they happen. Like Z has said, this is a business, and this is his best chance at free agency. Pitchers @ 25 may only get one big contract.

 

I understand he can live off it for the rest of his life, but for him is to get it while he can.

 

It's not a business. Z's grandkids are set for life irregardless of the hometown discount. The Cubs organization gave Z the chance to play pro ball and developed him to be the pitcher he is today. It's pretty selfish to demand FA market value after all that.

 

If we're going to pay FA market value for a pitcher, let's get Santana. Z is pretty mediocre alongside that guy.

 

Oswalt gave the hometown discount. Carpenter gave the hometown discount. Carpenter didn't even have the history with the Cards org that Carlos does with the Cubs.

 

Thanks for the love, Carlos. :roll:

 

Go back to Russia, Commie. Kidding, kidding. Seriously though, most "home town discounts" are little more than risk aversion. Take Carp for example. His signed his new contract while he had a year left on his contract and an option year. Thats two more years of heavy workload on a freak of a reconstructed shoulder. Sure, when he signed the new contract he had made about $20M in his career and was guaranteed another 8 (07 + buy out), but what if his shoulder faltered again? 28M is nothing to sneeze at, but now hes guaranteed nearly $85M. He was smart and took the risk adverse position. "Hometown discount" is a great phrase for the papers, but we all know why Carp and the many players this year have signed extensions...its called security.

 

If Z doesn't want that, thats fine for him. Its a risky position to take (especially considering his abuse), but with risk, there are rewards. Plus, Z seems like the type of uber confident guy who goes into every year knowing (thinking) he will win the CY.

[CuseCubFan69]

I always thought Carlos "loved the Cubs". . Hasn't he been quoted saying many things about loving it here and playing for the cubs?

 

He just doesn't seem like the same guy lately with his comments recently.

 

I think he's just playing the negotiating game.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Z is being a turd. How about a hometown discount?

 

Hometown discounts shouldn't be expected. They should be considered as a pleasant surprise if they happen. Like Z has said, this is a business, and this is his best chance at free agency. Pitchers @ 25 may only get one big contract.

 

I understand he can live off it for the rest of his life, but for him is to get it while he can.

 

It's not a business. Z's grandkids are set for life irregardless of the hometown discount. The Cubs organization gave Z the chance to play pro ball and developed him to be the pitcher he is today. It's pretty selfish to demand FA market value after all that.

 

If we're going to pay FA market value for a pitcher, let's get Santana. Z is pretty mediocre alongside that guy.

 

Oswalt gave the hometown discount. Carpenter gave the hometown discount. Carpenter didn't even have the history with the Cards org that Carlos does with the Cubs.

 

Thanks for the love, Carlos. :roll:

 

Go back to Russia, Commie. Kidding, kidding. Seriously though, most "home town discounts" are little more than risk aversion. Take Carp for example. His signed his new contract while he had a year left on his contract and an option year. Thats two more years of heavy workload on a freak of a reconstructed shoulder. Sure, when he signed the new contract he had made about $20M in his career and was guaranteed another 8 (07 + buy out), but what if his shoulder faltered again? 28M is nothing to sneeze at, but now hes guaranteed nearly $85M. He was smart and took the risk adverse position. "Hometown discount" is a great phrase for the papers, but we all know why Carp and the many players this year have signed extensions...its called security.

 

If Z doesn't want that, thats fine for him. Its a risky position to take (especially considering his abuse), but with risk, there are rewards. Plus, Z seems like the type of uber confident guy who goes into every year knowing (thinking) he will win the CY.

 

Hey Z, nice PAP. You'll be joining Carpenter soon, w/o the Cy Young of course.

 

This contract is going to be a disaster for the Cubs.

[nilodnayr]

If Jim Hendry can't give Carlos what he wants after giving Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis all that money, I'm really going to have to reconsider my fandom.

 

Brian, lets become Brewer's fans!!! But you have to drive me up to Milwaukee. I'm never in any condition to drive back after games up there. Hell, with all the renovations, it will probably be quicker than taking the L to Wrigley.

 

I heard the red line travel times will double on the Northside starting in April.

 

It will be rough...going to cut into my pre-game Murphys/Pianoman time :cry:

[YearofDaCubs]

When we were signing players left and right and back loading their contracts. I mentioned that this could cause problems with us signing Z. I think it may be possible the Cubs have decided not to extend Z already. I don't know what to think anymore with this team and this GM.

[Soul]

This definitely has the potential to turn into Maddux part deux.

 

 

Don't worry, after Z goes somewhere and wins a World Series I'm sure he'll be happy to spend his final couple years with us.

[soccer10k]

Any potential deal with the Angels has to start with Weaver coming to the Cubs.

[MattyJLCC]

I read through the first 7-9 pages of this thread, and it all seems pretty similar in thoughts...

 

Sign Z, Trade him, or Let him walk at the end of the season.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but is there any possibility of trimming the roster to make room for Z? Dump Jones off for cheap prospects, comit to Pie in CF for the year, and save a little money towards keeping your Ace? I know that comitting to Pie as a ML starter this year is really debated on here, but at this point, is playing Pie worth it if it means possibly keeping Big Z around?

 

I'm sure there's other possible moves such as this one that the Cubs could do to make absorbing his contract for the next 2-3 years a little more feasible, this is just the first one that comes to mind...

[YearofDaCubs]

I read through the first 7-9 pages of this thread, and it all seems pretty similar in thoughts...

 

Sign Z, Trade him, or Let him walk at the end of the season.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but is there any possibility of trimming the roster to make room for Z? Dump Jones off for cheap prospects, comit to Pie in CF for the year, and save a little money towards keeping your Ace? I know that comitting to Pie as a ML starter this year is really debated on here, but at this point, is playing Pie worth it if it means possibly keeping Big Z around?

 

I'm sure there's other possible moves such as this one that the Cubs could do to make absorbing his contract for the next 2-3 years a little more feasible, this is just the first one that comes to mind...

See, that's the problem with all these crazy backloaded deals..And to think with all that money we spent I still don't feel as us being WS contenders.

[Pushfrog98]

and if he suffers an arm injury, we could just convert him to an outfielder.

Or linebacker...

[USSoccer]

Any potential deal with the Angels has to start with Weaver coming to the Cubs.

 

Agreed. Ditto with Hughes and the NYY.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but is there any possibility of trimming the roster to make room for Z? Dump Jones off for cheap prospects, comit to Pie in CF for the year, and save a little money towards keeping your Ace? I know that comitting to Pie as a ML starter this year is really debated on here, but at this point, is playing Pie worth it if it means possibly keeping Big Z around?

 

I'm sure there's other possible moves such as this one that the Cubs could do to make absorbing his contract for the next 2-3 years a little more feasible, this is just the first one that comes to mind...

 

You'd probably have to move Jones and either Eyre or Dempster, and that assuming that it's the 2007 and 2008 budgets that are the problem. I would think it's the 2009 and beyond budgets where it gets dicey, what with the Soriano, Marquis and Lilly deals being backloaded.

[rocket]

why should z give us a hometown discount after 2 straight years of being on a horrible team?

[goonys evil twin]

why should z give us a hometown discount after 2 straight years of being on a horrible team?

 

Because he was born and raised in Chicago, duh.

[Soul]

I read through the first 7-9 pages of this thread, and it all seems pretty similar in thoughts...

 

Sign Z, Trade him, or Let him walk at the end of the season.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but is there any possibility of trimming the roster to make room for Z? Dump Jones off for cheap prospects, comit to Pie in CF for the year, and save a little money towards keeping your Ace? I know that comitting to Pie as a ML starter this year is really debated on here, but at this point, is playing Pie worth it if it means possibly keeping Big Z around?

 

I'm sure there's other possible moves such as this one that the Cubs could do to make absorbing his contract for the next 2-3 years a little more feasible, this is just the first one that comes to mind...

See, that's the problem with all these crazy backloaded deals..And to think with all that money we spent I still don't feel as us being WS contenders.

 

Yep. Just think what happens when Z is dealt for prospects, leaving us with a cadre of overpriced mediocre vets and prospects who aren't ready yet.

 

Cub Hell. Coming to your living room.

[Guest]

I honestly don't think budget is the issue here. Hendry is competent enough that he had an idea what he was willing to offer Carlos to stay and factored that into his calculations. The question is whether what he's willing to pay and what Carlos is willing to accept have any intersection. If so, Carlos will stay a Cub. If not, he won't. I don't think Marquis and Lilly enter in to this at all. Hendry has much more information about what he's going to be able to afford in 2007, 2008 and 2009 than we do.

 

It's all about the risks of handing any pitcher, let alone one with some red flags, a long term, high-dollar contract.

[MattyJLCC]

You'd probably have to move Jones and either Eyre or Dempster, and that assuming that it's the 2007 and 2008 budgets that are the problem. I would think it's the 2009 and beyond budgets where it gets dicey, what with the Soriano, Marquis and Lilly deals being backloaded.

 

Even then, moving Jones and one of the relievers for 2 years of budget flexibility to sign Big Z gives us two seasons of "win now" teams with Z at the helm of our rotation. This seems more important than keeping Jones and Dempster or Eyre who are not "deal breakers" in making us a contender... That gives us two seasons to win and make the bloated 09" budget more justifiable to the Trib.

[goonys evil twin]

I honestly don't think budget is the issue here.

 

I agree.

 

Hendry is competent enough

 

I disagree.

 

 

that he had an idea what he was willing to offer Carlos to stay and factored that into his calculations. The question is whether what he's willing to pay and what Carlos is willing to accept have any intersection. If so, Carlos will stay a Cub. If not, he won't. I don't think Marquis and Lilly enter in to this at all. Hendry has much more information about what he's going to be able to afford in 2007, 2008 and 2009 than we do.

 

It's all about the risks of handing any pitcher, let alone one with some red flags, a long term, high-dollar contract.

 

I don't think it's a matter of Hendry suddenly realizing he's running out of space. I would not be surprised, however, if the Tribune told him to ease back on the long-term committments to players, with ownership in such a state of flux. I really don't think he has much of an idea of what he's going to be able to spend in 2008, 2009, because he's not guaranteed to have a job then, nor is he guaranteed to have the same bosses.

 

I believe the situation is one where Hendry is just trying to get Zambrano signed to the cheapest deal possible. There isn't the same level of anxiety regarding the timing as there would be with a free agent, because he's not a free agent.

[A New Era]

why should z give us a hometown discount after 2 straight years of being on a horrible team?

 

Why did Ramirez take about $3 mil less than he could have probably got? I guess he just loves the cubs more than Zammy $o$o. :lol:

[nilodnayr]

You'd probably have to move Jones and either Eyre or Dempster, and that assuming that it's the 2007 and 2008 budgets that are the problem. I would think it's the 2009 and beyond budgets where it gets dicey, what with the Soriano, Marquis and Lilly deals being backloaded.

 

Even then, moving Jones and one of the relievers for 2 years of budget flexibility to sign Big Z gives us two seasons of "win now" teams with Z at the helm of our rotation. This seems more important than keeping Jones and Dempster or Eyre who are not "deal breakers" in making us a contender... That gives us two seasons to win and make the bloated 09" budget more justifiable to the Trib.

 

The issue though isn't budget inflexibility now. We are actually a bit under budget right now. There would be no budgetary need to move a contract that expires before 2009. If we really want to win now then we should keep Eyre and Jones.

[rocket]

why should z give us a hometown discount after 2 straight years of being on a horrible team?

 

Why did Ramirez take about $3 mil less than he could have probably got? I guess he just loves the cubs more than Zammy $o$o. :lol:

 

just because aramis ramirez took a hometown discount doesn't mean we should expect all other cubs to do it.

[CubColtPacer]

\

 

Hendry is competent enough

 

I disagree.

 

/quote]

 

You don't think Hendry is competent enough to at least know that Z is going to need an extension soon when he was doing free agency this year? That's all Tim said, and that's a really harsh criticism of Hendry to say that he couldn't even factor in what he wanted to pay Z into his plan.

[goonys evil twin]

If we really want to win now then we should keep Eyre and Jones.

 

 

Or trade them and get better players.

[goonys evil twin]

why should z give us a hometown discount after 2 straight years of being on a horrible team?

 

Why did Ramirez take about $3 mil less than he could have probably got? I guess he just loves the cubs more than Zammy $o$o. :lol:

 

just because aramis ramirez took a hometown discount doesn't mean we should expect all other cubs to do it.

 

I don't see how people can justify criticizing Zambrano for not giving a hometown discount, considering all he's done for the Cubs, when you have players like Soriano who obviously didn't offer a discount to come to Chicago. Zambrano has no obligation to settle for less than market value, moral, ethical or otherwise.

[USSoccer]

You don't think Hendry is competent enough to at least know that Z is going to need an extension soon when he was doing free agency this year? That's all Tim said, and that's a really harsh criticism of Hendry to say that he couldn't even factor in what he wanted to pay Z into his plan.

 

I think Hendry took Z for granted and assumed he could easily sign Z to a team friendly deal.

 

He underestimated the effect of the ridiculous overpayment of mediocre crap this offseason on Z. Z sees Jason Marquis get $21m and Ted Lilly get $40m, and Barry Zito get like $10billion, and justifiably asks for market value.

 

Z should have been extended before Marquis was signed.

[goonys evil twin]

 

Hendry is competent enough

 

I disagree.

 

 

You don't think Hendry is competent enough to at least know that Z is going to need an extension soon when he was doing free agency this year? That's all Tim said, and that's a really harsh criticism of Hendry to say that he couldn't even factor in what he wanted to pay Z into his plan.

 

I was just pointing out I don't think Hendry is competent enough, in general. It was a joke.

 

I don't think he just reached for his wallet and didn't realize how little he had left.